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  1. #161
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemposs View Post
    Once again I agree, but I do have to note that I find it more of a ethical issue than an actual infringement of rights. Which of course is a grey zone, and no matter what CNN's behaviour is apprehensible.

    But just to sort of ask, and again not because I feel this way, but couldn't it be argued that the kid in some extend did the same thing towards CNN, discrediting, defaming and making their livelihood and liberty difficult?
    No, because what CNN did was wrong, despite my stance on the issue, what they did is as simple as 2 + 2 = 4, but that being true doesn't make all the rest true concerning his right to free speech being impeded and blackmail shit.

    CNN's employee who represents CNN acted like assholes.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Freedom of Speech means the government can't arrest you are censor you for what you say. It doesn't mean you're free from social consequences like losing a job or friends or whatever.

    Blackmailing someone is bad and CNN should pay for that, but this isn't a freedom of speech issue.
    Please don't use the American First Amendment when talking about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means that other people are able to say the things you hate the most without any consequences, as long as things like hate speech are even a concept, true free speech can never exist.

  3. #163
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    CNN likely ordered a cease and desist order which the kid said OK to and apologized because neither party really wants this to get out of hand from a legal standpoint. That's not blackmail. They are well within their rights as a company to protect their copyright logo.

    The shit lords of the internet then decided to run with it. Note that Mark Dice and 4chan are mentioned in the OP, which should probably indicate which side of the argument you should be on.

    This is seriously getting overblown.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    That's what Freedom of Speech is. You're adding your own stuff to it when social consequences have always been around. People get fired for saying stupid shit on Facebook all the time. It's not a Free Speech issue.
    No, it doesn't. It means you can express whatever fucking stupid, dumbass, reductive, opinion you want without facing consequences for doing so. Even if its against private institutions. As long as you're not flagrantly lying, you're protected.

    Pretending it only applies to the government is naive as fuck and ignoring the actual issue.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    still doesn't excuse doxxing, we all did stupid shit when we were 15, having a bullseye painted on your name and location by an internationally recognized news network for exercising your freedom of speech is never fine. especially in the current political atmosphere, I've seen videos of people getting harassed or hurt for less.
    I don't want to rush to judgment here, before I haven't had a look at ALL facts.
    The source at what grounds we're discussing here is a Tweet by someone with the name "The Right Wing M".
    The tweets linked in the pic showing someone else claiming to have been harassed first by the guy with the handle HanAssholeSolo..
    It then lead to said harassed person posting then name Andrew Kascynski.
    Is that the name of the kid? Yes or No? We need proof or at least evidence.
    Is that blackmailing? No, it isn't.
    Is that doxxing? Maybe, or maybe not. That depends on where the information comes from.
    If the kid was dumb enough to write his real name into some openly accessible account information, then it wouldn't be doxxing.
    Plus, the guy in question is a CNN employee. Not CNN itself.
    If you'd commit some kind of mishap or crime, would that blame go on you or your employer, hm?

    So, lets either play the blame game here, or be rather rational about it.
    Still.. Doxxing is to be condemned and in most countries it's outright illegal anyway.
    But, do we have a case of it here? And if so, whose to blame for it?

    Relevant: http://www.bostonherald.com/entertai...deo_apologizes
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Please don't use the American First Amendment when talking about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means that other people are able to say the things you hate the most without any consequences, as long as things like hate speech are even a concept, true free speech can never exist.
    So, what you're saying is Freedom of Speech is people being able to say whatever they want and no one else has the freedom to respond in any way? That doesn't sound very free to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    No, it doesn't. It means you can express whatever fucking stupid, dumbass, reductive, opinion you want without facing consequences for doing so. Even if its against private institutions. As long as you're not flagrantly lying, you're protected.

    Pretending it only applies to the government is naive as fuck and ignoring the actual issue.
    If someone's an asshole and the company no longer wishes to employ them because they're an asshole they should be able to fire them. Why are you trying to restrict their freedoms?

    Freedom of Speech is protection against the government, not from other people responding to what you say.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Would anything excuse DOXXING?

    Why is this 15yo being made a helpless infant, is this really something new, a step too far?
    when you're being threatened by a big corporation (or a figure related to it) that can reveal your identity for the entire world then yes. even when popular people like social media figures publish videos or information about others with malicious intent it gets out of hand and the reaction often ends up too harsh and punishing when compared to the act said individual has done. there are many loonies out there who actually believe physical harm is justified towards people they perceive as "neo nazis" "alt rights" "fascists" etc and may try to hurt this kid.

    not mentioning that the entire thing was pointless to begin with, people make silly memes all the time, people make fun of public figures and establishments on air and online, CNN did a totally shit move by going after this kid.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    I don't think CNN should be prosecuted for the stupid fucking things they believe and espouse unless they try to censor the speech of somebody they disagree with.

    You can hold whatever stupid opinions you want as long as others can do the same.
    Again I agree with you and me and you disagree a lot on many things too, but I DO respect your process to think things through even if there is more to the details and ways we disagree.

    Trust me I get it, as for the free speech thing, I will honestly go as far as to say NEWS in general or NEWS channels kind of all are less about telling what is need to know as journalist, and more about entertainment.

    This is the kind of shit I would expect on MTV 20 years ago.


    By the way I DONT THINK they broke the law but guess what a judge who knows the law might, so this is CNNs circus and the parents of this kid, who might make a buck off this stupidity.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    Why would the world care? And doesn't that sort of discredit the claim that twitter is manipulating whats trending?
    ehhm twitter does not add or remove popular tags on basis of its need for non-us twitter users. Its just too unethical and stupid to be true.

    Plus most of twitter users even in US only look at world trending since its always on for both users and non-users.

    So its quite obvious by removing in from trending they were protecting their liberal brothers at CNN, reducing the amount of people in and out of US to see and get to know about the situation. And i am 100% confident other major news outlets will not report on this tomorrow either.

    Censorship at its finest.
    Gl defending.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    So, what you're saying is Freedom of Speech is people being able to say whatever they want and no one else has the freedom to respond in any way? That doesn't sound very free to me.
    If there was true freedom of speech, sure everyone could respond in any way shape or form they wanted. Unfortunately there's no freedom of speech to speak of. And the freedom of speech I'm talking about is recognized as a human right.

    You get into a very shady area with the current "freedom of speech" that carries social consequences. If you're allowed to discriminate someone because you don't agree with what he said, you should be able to also discriminate based on religion, sexual preferences, gender, race, physical appearance, etc.
    Last edited by Ichifails; 2017-07-05 at 09:47 AM.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    If there was true freedom of speech, sure everyone could respond in any way shape or form they wanted. Unfortunately there's no freedom of speech to speak of. And the freedom of speech I'm talking about is recognized as a human right.
    You're going to have to explain how there's no freedom of speech then.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    when you're being threatened by a big corporation that can reveal your identity for the entire world then yes. even when popular people like social media figures publish videos or information about others with malicious intent it gets out of hand and the reaction often ends up too harsh and punishing when compared to the act said individual has done. there are many loonies out there who actually believe physical harm is justified towards people they perceive as "neo nazis" "alt rights" "fascists" etc and may try to hurt this kid.

    not mentioning that the entire thing was pointless to begin with, people make silly memes all the time, people make fun of public figures and establishments on air and online, CNN did a totally shit move by going after this kid.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail


    Here is the thing, it depends on where, depends on when, if I am on MMO-C guess what, I am under NO expectations that my rights to say whatever I want, are recognized, and whatever information say private I did with the site, I am not especially protected from my information either being leaked to a vendor, or in general public.

    Now I am sure some things can be argued and they will be because so much of what happens online has still yet to make it through courts at any kind of speed. But in general, you can be "Doxxed" it is a risk and chance you take, that includes women like Anita Sarkasian, who despite how I feel about her or some people targeted with death threats that is a real thing EVERYBODY has to contend with.

    It is NOT RIGHT doxxing sucks, but unless the intent can be determined to do harm, embarrassment COULD be one of them but you aren't especially protected from that. I mean I am sure some crowfund is being set up now for the kids parents to sue, but either way good luck and take a number.

    Because just because he lost doesn't mean what he lost can be gotten back legally, and that is IF someone was to suggest that what was done to this kid was blackmail.


    As for what hurts this kid he is a kid, people with a functioning brain gather that by now, but being 15 he might not have any special protection.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  13. #173
    If someone's an asshole and the company no longer wishes to employ them because they're an asshole they should be able to fire them. Why are you trying to restrict their freedoms?
    I agree 100%, but that isn't what's happening here, dude. You know it, I know it, and so does everybody else. I usually agree with you on these topics, so try and take an objective stance on an issue. This is some random guy who made a stupid fucking meme that I don't even agree with. Do you REALLY think this guy deserves to have his life destroyed by CNN revealing his real name, address, phone number, ect?

    Are we not allowed to have our own personalized thoughts on the internet or in real life anymore? I'll give you an example. My family absolutely despises Hillary Clinton and are vehemently against gay rights and everything else under that banner. Should I be exposed on the internet for being a day guy and believing we deserve 100% equality, knowing that will very likely distance myself from my family?
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2017-07-05 at 09:49 AM.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    not mentioning that the entire thing was pointless to begin with, people make silly memes all the time, people make fun of public figures and establishments on air and online, CNN did a totally shit move by going after this kid.
    You're missing the whole point here.
    This is not about that meme per say.
    This is about a meme that became an official statement of the President of the United States of America.
    If anyone, whoever it is, posts/forwards/links another source, said source becomes their own. You don't believe that? Just post some shit links here on the forums that violate the policy and see your account banned for it. That also reflects the laws btw.
    Trump re-tweeting something makes it as much as his own. Now, it just happens that his tweets are official statements, because the law says so regarding presidential statements.
    And that is what makes the matter difficult and a lot different.
    Even IF - which can be severely questioned - the mainstream media was so out to get him, he would still have to show composure and presidential behavior. Instead he engages in childish memes that rile up the fringe groups on both, the right and the left.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    CNN likely ordered a cease and desist order which the kid said OK to and apologized because neither party really wants this to get out of hand from a legal standpoint. That's not blackmail. They are well within their rights as a company to protect their copyright logo.

    The shit lords of the internet then decided to run with it. Note that Mark Dice and 4chan are mentioned in the OP, which should probably indicate which side of the argument you should be on.

    This is seriously getting overblown.
    Yeah, those subtle details do get missed. But go ahead boycott CNN they couldn't get any worse and if they went out of business, oh well.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    I don't want to rush to judgment here, before I haven't had a look at ALL facts.
    The source at what grounds we're discussing here is a Tweet by someone with the name "The Right Wing M".
    The tweets linked in the pic showing someone else claiming to have been harassed first by the guy with the handle HanAssholeSolo..
    It then lead to said harassed person posting then name Andrew Kascynski.
    Is that the name of the kid? Yes or No? We need proof or at least evidence.
    Is that blackmailing? No, it isn't.
    Is that doxxing? Maybe, or maybe not. That depends on where the information comes from.
    If the kid was dumb enough to write his real name into some openly accessible account information, then it wouldn't be doxxing.
    Plus, the guy in question is a CNN employee. Not CNN itself.
    If you'd commit some kind of mishap or crime, would that blame go on you or your employer, hm?

    So, lets either play the blame game here, or be rather rational about it.
    Still.. Doxxing is to be condemned and in most countries it's outright illegal anyway.
    But, do we have a case of it here? And if so, whose to blame for it?

    Relevant: http://www.bostonherald.com/entertai...deo_apologizes

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politi...eet/index.html

    "CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change."

    Andrew Kascynski is an employee of the CNN, however it seems that he is using CNN's resources to track this person down and try to reach out to him. he did it as a reporter.

    He actively tracked down this person using the information on his reddit page and then doing a search on facebook to find his private information then contacted said person to ask if it's the person they're looking for: this is close to stalking.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    I agree 100%, but that isn't what's happening here, dude. You know it, I know it, and so does everybody else. I usually agree with you on these topics, so try and take an objective stance on an issue. This is some random guy who made a stupid fucking meme that I don't even agree with. Do you REALLY think this guy deserves to have his life destroyed by CNN revealing his real name, address, phone number, ect?

    Are we not allowed to have our own personalized thoughts on the internet or in real life anymore? I'll give you an example. My family absolutely despises Hillary Clinton and are vehemently against gay rights and everything else under that banner. Should I be exposed on the internet for being a day guy and believing we deserve 100% equality, knowing that will very likely distance myself from my family?
    No, his information shouldn't be revealed and he shouldn't have been threatened, but it's still not a free speech issue.

  18. #178
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    when you're being threatened by a big corporation (or a figure related to it) that can reveal your identity for the entire world then yes. even when popular people like social media figures publish videos or information about others with malicious intent it gets out of hand and the reaction often ends up too harsh and punishing when compared to the act said individual has done. there are many loonies out there who actually believe physical harm is justified towards people they perceive as "neo nazis" "alt rights" "fascists" etc and may try to hurt this kid.

    not mentioning that the entire thing was pointless to begin with, people make silly memes all the time, people make fun of public figures and establishments on air and online, CNN did a totally shit move by going after this kid.
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politi...eet/index.html

    Looks like he contacted CNN and brought up the subject of DOXXing.

    After posting his apology, "HanA**holeSolo" called CNN's KFile and confirmed his identity. In the interview, "HanA**holeSolo" sounded nervous about his identity being revealed and asked to not be named out of fear for his personal safety and for the public embarrassment it would bring to him and his family.
    At this point CNN lawyers probably said we won't but we can so don't piss us off. Seriously overblown.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    You're going to have to explain how there's no freedom of speech then.
    I'm not going to humor your trolling, I'm sure you can figure it out considering you're able to read.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    No, his information shouldn't be revealed and she shouldn't have been threatened, but it's still not a free speech issue.
    How can you make this statement while also saying this isn't a free speech issue?

    It clearly, obviously, and blatantly is. They're directly threatening to link his gififying to his personal life.

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