NO BUFFS to retribution

[wink-]

What I would like to see is to have Crusader Strike do more damage in the execute phase unless we have Wings on. This way we can save Crusade for important parts of the fight instead of just trying to squeeze in that last one. Far too often bosses are dying 5 seconds before Crusade is up again, just obliterating our parses.

[dumathoinn]

Sorry hybrid classes should not even be in the top 8 of dps specs at all. Want to top meters pick a class that is pure dps and perform well at it.

[Jester Joe]

Sorry hybrid classes should not even be in the top 8 of dps specs at all. Want to top meters pick a class that is pure dps and perform well at it.

Good thing the developers think otherwise.

[Dawon]

Good thing the developers think otherwise.

Besides they dont, top dmg dealers are always some of the pure dps classes and very very rarely a hybrid. The more hybrid you are (i.e. more available roles you can cover) the further down the rankings. Which kinda makes sense as we (in theory) can swap to fill other roles in a raid, but then again, who the f*** want to be subpar just because we technically can use a spec we probably never do in raids!

[Jester Joe]

Besides they dont, top dmg dealers are always some of the pure dps classes and very very rarely a hybrid. The more hybrid you are (i.e. more available roles you can cover) the further down the rankings. Which kinda makes sense as we (in theory) can swap to fill other roles in a raid, but then again, who the f*** want to be subpar just because we technically can use a spec we probably never do in raids!

Are warriors and balance druids still not among the top?

[Dawon]

Are warriors and balance druids still not among the top?

Yeah but basically every pure dps class is higher than the hybrids... and fine, warriors can tank but the pure hybrids are pally + druid and druid is in the top5 on pretty much only aoe. Else, rogues are there, warlocks, frost mages... pallies pretty much dead last .. so in an average, yeah hybrids are lower than pure classes!

[Jester Joe]

Yeah but basically every pure dps class is higher than the hybrids... and fine, warriors can tank but the pure hybrids are pally + druid and druid is in the top5 on pretty much only aoe. Else, rogues are there, warlocks, frost mages... pallies pretty much dead last .. so in an average, yeah hybrids are lower than pure classes!

Nothing about that makes it intentional though, since clearly there are hybrids at the top, and while they might suck now, there was a time that monks were at the top which is also a hybrid. It's more like, pure dps classes have a higher chance to have stronger dps, because they have multiple specs that could be strong.

If Ret is weak for Paladins, then their dps is low. If Fire is bad for Mage, they still have Arcane and Frost to fall back on.

[Dawon]

Nothing about that makes it intentional though, since clearly there are hybrids at the top, and while they might suck now, there was a time that monks were at the top which is also a hybrid. It's more like, pure dps classes have a higher chance to have stronger dps, because they have multiple specs that could be strong.

If Ret is weak for Paladins, then their dps is low. If Fire is bad for Mage, they still have Arcane and Frost to fall back on.

Exactly, hence hybrids are weaker! Most likely as we're a onespec-dps and if that fails we suck.. you just confirmed the statement the dude had at top!

[Jester Joe]

Exactly, hence hybrids are weaker! Most likely as we're a onespec-dps and if that fails we suck.. you just confirmed the statement the dude had at top!

No, I didn't at all, please don't put words in my mouth.

Hybrids that end up being weaker is not the same as devs purposely MAKING them weaker. He said they shouldn't EVER be in the top.
I'm saying they don't end up there as often as pure dps classes because of being limited to one spec.

It's two completely different things, and it in no way confirms the statement at the top.

[Dugna]

so looks like theres not going to be another tuning pass for anything, seems they're fine where ret is....just great....

[Reith]

Sorry hybrid classes should not even be in the top 8 of dps specs at all. Want to top meters pick a class that is pure dps and perform well at it.

Not only do developers disagree with you AND Warriors and Druids prove otherwise, but you're actually wrong lol. I don't want to "top meters." I just want my spec in the middle of the pack overall.

- - - Updated - - -

Besides they dont, top dmg dealers are always some of the pure dps classes and very very rarely a hybrid. The more hybrid you are (i.e. more available roles you can cover) the further down the rankings. Which kinda makes sense as we (in theory) can swap to fill other roles in a raid, but then again, who the f*** want to be subpar just because we technically can use a spec we probably never do in raids!

You know you can just switch classes to fill another role, right? Same argument.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Sorry hybrid classes should not even be in the top 8 of dps specs at all. Want to top meters pick a class that is pure dps and perform well at it.

Cool story.
A little bit old, but good nevertheless.
keep us updated.

[Deleted]

Exactly, hence hybrids are weaker! Most likely as we're a onespec-dps and if that fails we suck.. you just confirmed the statement the dude had at top!

Stop the nonsense. Theres no hybrid specs on this game.

Theres tanks, healers and damage dealers. You can go take that bias for a walk, no one cares.

[killwithpwr]

Cool story.
A little bit old, but good nevertheless.
keep us updated.

A tail as old as time one would say...

[Vx-Odessa-xV]

Just remember everyone, to quote Blizzard..

"We've stopped doing "Hybrid Taxxing" on classes. We feel there should be no "hybrid" or "pure" classification that decides a class' capabilities of play."

My ass they have..

[Dawon]

Stop the nonsense. Theres no hybrid specs on this game.

Theres tanks, healers and damage dealers. You can go take that bias for a walk, no one cares.

You clearly dont understand what's the difference between a "hybrid class" and "hybrid specs"... so I'm not gonna be bothered with your rant!

[Reith]

You clearly dont understand what's the difference between a "hybrid class" and "hybrid specs"... so I'm not gonna be bothered with your rant!

Even you don't know the difference, unless proven otherwise. Ret had a reason not to be amazing in dps before, but now Ret has almost no healing or utility at all (compared to MoP) so Ret is just damage now. Not even asking to be top, just middle of the pack.

[Dawon]

Even you don't know the difference, unless proven otherwise. Ret had a reason not to be amazing in dps before, but now Ret has almost no healing or utility at all (compared to MoP) so Ret is just damage now. Not even asking to be top, just middle of the pack.

But seriously, do I have to explain stuff so even my 4yo would understand? Dude is talking about "hybrid spec", i.e. like you could do back in vanilla, spread points in all trees, which is not possible today. "We" are a hybrid class, meaning we can (with a click of a button) swap between 3 different roles, something a mage/rogue/lock cant do. I don't see it weird that we aren't and shouldn't be top of the charts as dps, due to us having options to swap roles where a mage simply have to reroll to achieve the same result. We have a nice fallback BUT if someone just wanna dps with the pally, yeah we have a very big disadvantage as the pure dps classes usually have atleast ONE spec that is good, while we are dependent on our ONLY one to be good else we suck (which is almost the case now, part from padding meters on add-fights).

That said, hybrid classes have the option to swap role easier than pure dps classes, hence why blizzard probably aint putting maximum effort into our dps role with the mindset that "well, they can always pick another spec".. heck if I know... but fact remains, pure dps classes makes sense to have slightly higher dps due to being pigeonholed into one role. We can swap roles, but most of us dont want to (understandable), so we suffer harder from a badly designed spec.

And yeah, I've personally benched my pally for the first time since start of Wrath, simply as I have no urge to tank/heal with it but want to dps this expansion, thus going a pure dps class is the smarter and more safe choice (safe in the sense I have multiple dps-specs to chose from).

NOW, screw this thread, I seriously cba with the "let's reply forever and ever to boost postcount" kind of replies that are going on here. Good day!

[Deleted]

Don't put too much stock into sims. Our ret in the guild is actually always middle to lower top of the charts. Always depends on the fights of course.

[Deleted]

Don't put too much stock into sims. Our ret in the guild is actually always middle to lower top of the charts. Always depends on the fights of course.

That doesn't mean anything, Your guild could have a lot of average players and your ret is significantly better than them. Against equally skilled players, your ret wouldn't be middle to lower top