New Player Confused over Job Identities

[lawow74]

If you want to see how your job plays at a higher level, run Palace of the Dead. Especially when you get to 51+ where you can insta-60 your job inside POTD and play around with all the abilities up to that point.

[bloodwulf]

Appreciate the input guys. I am going to try to do Palace of the Dead when I figure out how to unlock it. I would like to see how my class plays at higher level. Though I heard that its better to do a Fixed party in that then a matched party. Just to see if it felt better I went and picked up Rogue and started to level that a bit. The XP bonus for an lower level class was nice, so I am going to try to catch it up and maybe switch to Rogue.

Honestly, it is not looking great for me long term. I understand the game opens up at high end but the game is so brutally boring at low level I am struggling to stay interested. I know of the level potions and story skip potions, but I am not really willing to drop more money on the hope that it picks up later. I only have 2 friends that play the game and they are both 60+ and just focusing on that gameplay (which I don't blame them). I keep reading that the story gets better and is the reason a lot of people play it, but the lack of voice and the sometimes cringe writing has me more often than not escaping to skip past the story and move on.

I really appreciate the input folks.

[Ragnarocket]

Appreciate the input guys. I am going to try to do Palace of the Dead when I figure out how to unlock it. I would like to see how my class plays at higher level. Though I heard that its better to do a Fixed party in that then a matched party. Just to see if it felt better I went and picked up Rogue and started to level that a bit. The XP bonus for an lower level class was nice, so I am going to try to catch it up and maybe switch to Rogue.

Honestly, it is not looking great for me long term. I understand the game opens up at high end but the game is so brutally boring at low level I am struggling to stay interested. I know of the level potions and story skip potions, but I am not really willing to drop more money on the hope that it picks up later. I only have 2 friends that play the game and they are both 60+ and just focusing on that gameplay (which I don't blame them). I keep reading that the story gets better and is the reason a lot of people play it, but the lack of voice and the sometimes cringe writing has me more often than not escaping to skip past the story and move on.

I really appreciate the input folks.

If you need assistance on unlocking Palace of the Dead I would recommend this page:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...e/deepdungeon/

It should help you figure out all the steps you need to get started. It seems that as long as you have a Disciple of War or Magic at level 17 you are good to go!

[Claymore]

Jobs and Classes are virtually indistinguishable in most cases. Realistically, there is no difference, other than the Job learns additional abilities. You *can* switch back to using a base Class, but there is virtually zero reason to, other than *possibly* in PvP (fewer abilities, but more cross-class skills).

It's really just a formality, making it feel like you really accomplished something in the story. Mechanically speaking, it also ensures you at least *try* a different play-style, even if you never quite take to it.

The other exception I've heard of, is Summoner versus Scholar, which I believe are "twists" on the same Job.

So generally speaking, Jobs are just "higher-level Classes".

[Tabrotar]

Why is everyone saying that lancer is boring to level?
Ok i started with a lancer to go dragoon (and haven´t played anoither class yet) but for me it was not really boring. Might see this otherwise if i lvl other classes/jobs.

[Ragnarocket]

Why is everyone saying that lancer is boring to level?
Ok i started with a lancer to go dragoon (and haven´t played anoither class yet) but for me it was not really boring. Might see this otherwise if i lvl other classes/jobs.

Ehhh.....it's kinda boring for the first 20 or so levels. But really most classes are. I'm leveling my Archer at the moment and it's at level 16. The only abilities I have are a basic shot, steady shot which grants me a buff, a DoT, an oGCD shot on a 20 second cooldown, and an execute.

It's fun to run around shooting stuff yes but it's not like I have a ton to do between my 2.5 second GCD.

[Tabrotar]

Ehhh.....it's kinda boring for the first 20 or so levels. But really most classes are. I'm leveling my Archer at the moment and it's at level 16. The only abilities I have are a basic shot, steady shot which grants me a buff, a DoT, an oGCD shot on a 20 second cooldown, and an execute.

It's fun to run around shooting stuff yes but it's not like I have a ton to do between my 2.5 second GCD.

Yeah i noted this whenm i had to lvl marauder to go dragoon very very boring for me (ok might be because as a lvl 30 lancer i had way more abilitys to use).

[Ragnarocket]

Yeah i noted this whenm i had to lvl marauder to go dragoon very very boring for me (ok might be because as a lvl 30 lancer i had way more abilitys to use).

I think they need to start spicing up the leveling a little bit. Now that we have these class gauges and what not it would be interesting to see them throw some variety at us as we level. It's a bit weird as a Paladin to get your Oath Gauge once you get your stances and it's just a little gem. It doesn't do anything but show you your stance. Once you get Sheltron in your early 50s you actually start building that bar up and being able to use it. But even then it's just 2 abilities at max level that have anything to do with your Oath.

Maybe start giving us some "baby" versions of the abilities sprinkled into our leveling experience and have us get them more frequently? We know they can overwrite abilities like White Mages Stone and Aero abilities now so I would be ok with something like this.

[Melsiren]

Jobs and Classes are virtually indistinguishable in most cases. Realistically, there is no difference, other than the Job learns additional abilities. You *can* switch back to using a base Class, but there is virtually zero reason to, other than *possibly* in PvP (fewer abilities, but more cross-class skills).

You cannot pvp as the base classes any more. As of stormblood Classes do not even have any pvp abilities, you have to unlock the Jobs to pvp.

[Tabrotar]

I think they need to start spicing up the leveling a little bit. Now that we have these class gauges and what not it would be interesting to see them throw some variety at us as we level. It's a bit weird as a Paladin to get your Oath Gauge once you get your stances and it's just a little gem. It doesn't do anything but show you your stance. Once you get Sheltron in your early 50s you actually start building that bar up and being able to use it. But even then it's just 2 abilities at max level that have anything to do with your Oath.

Maybe start giving us some "baby" versions of the abilities sprinkled into our leveling experience and have us get them more frequently? We know they can overwrite abilities like White Mages Stone and Aero abilities now so I would be ok with something like this.

Hm sounds really good. Thought about to ask in the next letter about this (which is next friday)?
Maybe they´re up to do something about that?

[Ragnarocket]

Hm sounds really good. Thought about to ask in the next letter about this (which is next friday)?
Maybe they´re up to do something about that?

That might not be a terrible idea. I know a lot of people are now complaining that while their classes feel good at max level...when they level sync down it can just be weird for certain levels. Now that the level cap is 70 and they are getting a lot of new blood I really think they need to re-visit a lot of the classes as they level up and how they play. I understand that at 70 everything is supposed to "click" but the rest of the game shouldn't feel BAD in comparison.

[bloodwulf]

That might not be a terrible idea. I know a lot of people are now complaining that while their classes feel good at max level...when they level sync down it can just be weird for certain levels. Now that the level cap is 70 and they are getting a lot of new blood I really think they need to re-visit a lot of the classes as they level up and how they play. I understand that at 70 everything is supposed to "click" but the rest of the game shouldn't feel BAD in comparison.

That nails my feelings exactly. I am a new player who is struggling to find any reason to play the game because they do nothing to make the game attractive early on. Its all this elusive carrot on the stick of "it gets better at 50/60/70". Heck, in other games you could pvp to break up the monotony but this game that to is gated behind a level requirement. It would be different if I had something more than 5 skills (one of which is completely useless, though I assume its a combo ability later). Combat as a lancer right now is hit the skill that gives you a 15% damage buff, then spam 1 then 2. I think this is where my original question came from, I was confused about identities, but maybe I am confused about the point of the existing early classes, that just get replaced with one at a higher level.

[kiramon]

Just as an example for healers

Ast has a lot of cool down abilities and short duration buffs... so if I'm playing like a boss might start a fight like

Aoe shield aspect heal
Switch to regen aspect
increased duration single buff
Decreased cast speed
Increased healing potency
Aoe regen aspect heal
Mana regen ability
Pull 4 cards
Buff if necessary
Aoe buff extender
Single target buff extender

All before the pull
At that point your opener is done and you're like free mode the first 40 seconds of the fight lol...

XD or you just charge in. You can play how you want-- sometimes I wanna take full advantage of cooldown timers, sometimes I wanna save them for big aoe phases or whatever

It's a bit of fun to mess around with


And if you queue a leveling Duty Finder, you get... 2 single target heals and an aoe heal. Big difference, no?

[Resiak]

That nails my feelings exactly. I am a new player who is struggling to find any reason to play the game because they do nothing to make the game attractive early on. Its all this elusive carrot on the stick of "it gets better at 50/60/70". Heck, in other games you could pvp to break up the monotony but this game that to is gated behind a level requirement. It would be different if I had something more than 5 skills (one of which is completely useless, though I assume its a combo ability later). Combat as a lancer right now is hit the skill that gives you a 15% damage buff, then spam 1 then 2. I think this is where my original question came from, I was confused about identities, but maybe I am confused about the point of the existing early classes, that just get replaced with one at a higher level.

You kind of need to know the history of the game to understand, which I wouldn't expect new players at this point to know. The jobs where added with ARR 2.0 because Yoshida didn't see why we wern't using the traditional BB jobs. But the game was built around the classes in the early game, and people didnt want those to go away. So at level 30, you do the quest, and get promoted to the job. The classes end at 30. The story lines get wrapped up and your, for all intents and purposes a dragoon, with a new story, and you start getting abilities that reflect your job. Don't overthink it, just think of the job as a further extension of your class.

As for the early game struggle, i think the issue is that Yoshida designed the early game with new mmo players in mind. It eases people into their abilities and roles. Is it boring for those of us that have been playing mmos for years, yes. But it is what it is. I don't think he has the manpower to go back and revamp older content. But I will echo the others, it picks up as the game goes on. Dragoon especially was one of my favorites once it hit 30.

[Ragnarocket]

That nails my feelings exactly. I am a new player who is struggling to find any reason to play the game because they do nothing to make the game attractive early on. Its all this elusive carrot on the stick of "it gets better at 50/60/70". Heck, in other games you could pvp to break up the monotony but this game that to is gated behind a level requirement. It would be different if I had something more than 5 skills (one of which is completely useless, though I assume its a combo ability later). Combat as a lancer right now is hit the skill that gives you a 15% damage buff, then spam 1 then 2. I think this is where my original question came from, I was confused about identities, but maybe I am confused about the point of the existing early classes, that just get replaced with one at a higher level.

Well the problem is in order to reduce complexity at 70 (which as you've seen...the Dragoon HAS a fair share of that) they removed abilities that you used to have at lower levels. It works great at max level. Not so much now. From looking at the Lancer wiki it seems like you have 14 levels from 12 to 26 where you get no new rotation abilities. It's just a one strike buff with Life Surge and a ranged pull with Piercing Talon. 14 levels without a new GOOD ability just...feels bad.

Why can't we add in True Thrust (the last part of the combo) at least a few levels early? Swap it with Life Surge? I dunno, I guess I'd just really like the early game to be more impactful rather than "meh".

[bloodwulf]

You kind of need to know the history of the game to understand, which I wouldn't expect new players at this point to know. The jobs where added with ARR 2.0 because Yoshida didn't see why we wern't using the traditional BB jobs. But the game was built around the classes in the early game, and people didnt want those to go away. So at level 30, you do the quest, and get promoted to the job. The classes end at 30. The story lines get wrapped up and your, for all intents and purposes a dragoon, with a new story, and you start getting abilities that reflect your job. Don't overthink it, just think of the job as a further extension of your class.

As for the early game struggle, i think the issue is that Yoshida designed the early game with new mmo players in mind. It eases people into their abilities and roles. Is it boring for those of us that have been playing mmos for years, yes. But it is what it is. I don't think he has the manpower to go back and revamp older content. But I will echo the others, it picks up as the game goes on. Dragoon especially was one of my favorites once it hit 30.

I appreciate the background. Also is the staffing for the game small or something? I keep seeing references to Yoshida and a lack of manpower, but I am new to this community.

Well the problem is in order to reduce complexity at 70 (which as you've seen...the Dragoon HAS a fair share of that) they removed abilities that you used to have at lower levels. It works great at max level. Not so much now. From looking at the Lancer wiki it seems like you have 14 levels from 12 to 26 where you get no new rotation abilities. It's just a one strike buff with Life Surge and a ranged pull with Piercing Talon. 14 levels without a new GOOD ability just...feels bad.

Why can't we add in True Thrust (the last part of the combo) at least a few levels early? Swap it with Life Surge? I dunno, I guess I'd just really like the early game to be more impactful rather than "meh".

Meh is the best description of the leveling experience so far. I will try to slog through until I get to the Dragoon. I have played a ton of MMOs, and while I feel FF14 is likely one of the most complete ones on the market, I feel it probably has the most meaningless leveling experience I have seen.

[Resiak]

I appreciate the background. Also is the staffing for the game small or something? I keep seeing references to Yoshida and a lack of manpower, but I am new to this community.

Sadly it is. 1.0 was a massive failure and Square took a huge risk in handing the project to Yoshida to rebuild. He's been working with limited resources ever since. It's frustrating for a lot of us, since ARR and HW where such big hits, and SB looking the same, we would like to see more investment going back into 14. I don't know their finances, but it always feel like they really handcuff the 14 team.[/QUOTE]

[The Casualty]

Why is everyone saying that lancer is boring to level?
Ok i started with a lancer to go dragoon (and haven´t played anoither class yet) but for me it was not really boring. Might see this otherwise if i lvl other classes/jobs.

Because until quite recently, Vorpal Thrust only had a combo potency of 200. If you averaged out the potency between it (200) and True Thrust (150) you would get 175, which was less than the overall potency of only using Impulse Drive (180). So until 26 when you got Full thrust to finish out your first combo, and your lack of AOE options, you would literally just mash the Impulse Drive ability while keeping up the Heavy Thrust buff.

2 skills for 26 levels. That's why it was a drag to level.


Since then Impulse Drive has gone up to 190 and Vorpal upto 240, which evens out the combos, but there still is no way to do damage to multiple targets or multidot until at least 42.

[Wrecktangle]

Sadly it is. 1.0 was a massive failure and Square took a huge risk in handing the project to Yoshida to rebuild. He's been working with limited resources ever since. It's frustrating for a lot of us, since ARR and HW where such big hits, and SB looking the same, we would like to see more investment going back into 14. I don't know their finances, but it always feel like they really handcuff the 14 team.

Actually - the FF14 team is even larger than WoW's dev team. FF14 team has less "battle content" designers, but more overall devs.

As of 4.0 they have roughly 270 in house developers working on FF14. As of Legion launch WoW had 235 in house developers.

The FF14 battle content team consists of 5-6 people currently, WoW's is 14 (hence why they can make more battle content).

[Ragnarocket]

Actually - the FF14 team is even larger than WoW's dev team. FF14 team has less "battle content" designers, but more overall devs.

As of 4.0 they have roughly 270 in house developers working on FF14. As of Legion launch WoW had 235 in house developers.

The FF14 battle content team consists of 5-6 people currently, WoW's is 14 (hence why they can make more battle content).

While I don't disbelieve you where have you seen these numbers? It feels like FF14 definitely has people working on all aspects of the content and not just throwing everything at the next raid tier like WoW tends to do.