Hunter T21

[Coldfire989]

NEW Item - Hunter T21 Beast Mastery 2P Bonus - Kill Command Damage Kill Command damage increased by 0%.
NEW Item - Hunter T21 Beast Mastery 4P Bonus - Wild Call Kill Command Reset When Wild Call resets the cooldown of Dire Beast, the cooldown of Kill Command is reduced by 0 seconds.
NEW Item - Hunter T21 Marksmanship 2P Bonus - Marked Shot Sometimes Shoots Twice Marked Shot has a 0% chance to fire at the target an additional time.
NEW Item - Hunter T21 Marksmanship 4P Bonus - Marked Shot Buffs Focus Builders When Marked Shot deals damage, the damage of your next Focus generating shot is increased by 0%, and it will generate 0% additional Focus. Stacks up to 0 times.
NEW Item - Hunter T21 Survival 2P Bonus - Flanking Strikes Buffs Raptor Strike Crit Flanking Strike has a 0% chance to increase the critical strike chance of your next Raptor Strike by 0%.
NEW Item - Hunter T21 Survival 4P Bonus - Mongoose Bite Buffs Raptor Strike Damage Each cast of Mongoose Bite increases the damage of your next Raptor Strike by 0%. Stacks up to 0 times.



First iteration of course but there it is

[Deleted]

SV and MM are interesting.

Depending on the amount of % of course.

Just imagine what that MM one could theoretical mean to Sidewinders.
Enough focus to do 3 AiS, maybe high enough dmg to rival an AiS (or at least do like ~500% wpn dmg), but it's AoE etc.
Will also buff the Zevrim Ring. Hell yeah.

I would take that over t20 any time.

[Deleted]

Interesting, prefer T20 for MM though. Never though id use zevrim ring

[Yuyn]

SV one isn't interesting, it's awful. The spec already has multiple stacking buffs to manage, as well as a few proc mechanics. Not to mention basing the bonuses around an ability that some talent builds will use once or twice a fight naturally.

[Deleted]

SV one isn't interesting, it's awful. The spec already has multiple stacking buffs to manage, as well as a few proc mechanics. Not to mention basing the bonuses around an ability that some talent builds will use once or twice a fight naturally.

Eh....this requires literally no management at all.
If you play with Animal instinct, you just press it whenever it's capped, if not - you are pressing it whenever you need to maintain Mok.

You have it on your bar anyway - you can use it to great effect while waiting for MB to charge back up to 2/3 stacks again.

[Yuyn]

Eh....this requires literally no management at all.

That depends heavily on how high it stacks and what talent build you use. If you don't use Mok'nathal or Serpent Sting, Raptor Strike won't get used more than a few times a fight. (And Animal Instincts+Dragonsfire Grenade is often a better talent build in raw output.) And if it doesn't stack nigh-infinitely, then yes, you do have to manage it -- you'd have to break up a Mongoose Bite chain to Raptor Strike abnormally -- or you'd lose out.

[Deleted]

That depends heavily on how high it stacks and what talent build you use. If you don't use Mok'nathal or Serpent Sting, Raptor Strike won't get used more than a few times a fight. (And Animal Instincts+Dragonsfire Grenade is often a better talent build in raw output.) And if it doesn't stack nigh-infinitely, then yes, you do have to manage it -- you'd have to break up a Mongoose Bite chain to Raptor Strike abnormally -- or you'd lose out.

I doubt instincts and Dragonsfire is better but even if it is, it might change talent builds around enough for stuff like explosive/dragonfire to fall behind on ST.
Which means you'd end up with less buttons for ST.

Anyway, it's better than "ability X will now do Y% more damage" (T20) - or what kind of set bonus would you like to see for SV?

It has a nice interaction with your artifact, your talents, your rotation and your abilities, this is how sets should be designed.

[Eapoe]

Feel like they are all shit. BM is going to be proc on proc on proc and using a priority system of what to press 1st. Depending on procs, you're potentially going to have a lot of wasted ones from Focus Starvation and/or proc into so often you just won't keep up with them.
MM is just, what the fuck are they thinking? Sure, there's potential if you go SW and time CDs on heavy AoE fights, but outside of that AS and MuS hit like wet noodles. The damage increase would have to be huge to make the 4p decent, but that runs the risk of making SW mandatory as it would be the go to choice. Keep in mind, Zevrims is a terrible legendary as it can proc 8 times in a row (had it happen) or maybe once overnight the course of 3 minutes (had this happen more often).
SV is, just like MM, what the fuck are they thinking? The 4p makes WotMN mandatory as well as SS or you never use RS. You could leave out WotMN/SS and just build crazy damage stacks for RS, but that would potentially be more harmful to long term damage than only increasing it by 2-6 stacks before refreshing WotMN. This also means you have to weave FS into your abilities, which is another pain in the ass because there are long windows you might not touch it during other ability usage. The tier suggests a synergy in SV's abilities that doesn't exist. Add on that this is the 2nd tier that SV's set bonuses focus on a ST playstyle, and it really gives the impression Blizz doesn't know what they are doing with the spec.

[Emerald Archer]

Just imagine what that MM one could theoretical mean to Sidewinders.

MM is just, what the fuck are they thinking? Sure, there's potential if you go SW and time CDs on heavy AoE fights, but outside of that AS and MuS hit like wet noodles. The damage increase would have to be huge to make the 4p decent, but that runs the risk of making SW mandatory as it would be the go to choice. Keep in mind, Zevrims is a terrible legendary as it can proc 8 times in a row (had it happen) or maybe once overnight the course of 3 minutes (had this happen more often).

What's the obsession with SW build? This clearly does just as much, in fact more, for meme build. And meme build is already decent.

[Deleted]

MM is just, what the fuck are they thinking? Sure, there's potential if you go SW and time CDs on heavy AoE fights, but outside of that AS and MuS hit like wet noodles. The damage increase would have to be huge to make the 4p decent, but that runs the risk of making SW mandatory as it would be the go to choice. Keep in mind, Zevrims is a terrible legendary as it can proc 8 times in a row (had it happen) or maybe once overnight the course of 3 minutes (had this happen more often).

Well, it all depends on the % numbers.

but MuS+AS have higher Marked Shot proc-rates, meaning 2p is stronger than SW 2p - but 4p is probably weaker.

What's the obsession with SW build? This clearly does just as much, in fact more, for meme build. And meme build is already decent.

I think the one being obessed is you? Simply mentioning that talent is now an obsession?
I also like how you threw the word "fact" around - without any numbers at hand.
4p has the potential to be nearly useless for meme.

Knowing blizz, it's probably a very low % on both values, and the whole thing will end up being pointless anyway.
2p will end up way too strong for AoE otherwise.

[Emerald Archer]

I think the one being obessed is you? Simply mentioning that talent is now an obsession?
I also like how you threw the word "fact" around - without any numbers at hand.
4p has the potential to be nearly useless for meme.

Knowing blizz, it's probably a very low % on both values, and the whole thing will end up being pointless anyway.
2p will end up way too strong for AoE otherwise.

You seemed very quickly offended by a simple word.

Meme build casts more marked shots than SW - Fact
Sidewinders, while yes it generates focus so will get the dmg buff, does like no damage.

[Eapoe]

You seemed very quickly offended by a simple word.

Meme build casts more marked shots than SW - Fact
Sidewinders, while yes it generates focus so will get the dmg buff, does like no damage.

Think the main thing here is, BM will probably go back to being THE raid spec for almost all situations for the next raid. The current tier seems to break down like this: SV=another tier of ST benefit. MM=great AoE potential thru TS usage and MS benefiting MuS and SW alike, but due to the piss poor damage of Focus Generators will not see much benefit at all ST. Even with the meme build, AS /MuS will only benefit from 1 MS at a time, unless using Zevrims and lucky with procs. BM=like SV, a ST focus thru tier, but a better toolkit for sustained AoE as needed compared to SV.
I'm not saying BM will be amazing, but unless there's an AoE focus in the next raid, it seems like the tier will benefit the more "all around" aspect of BM.

[Rakshata]

It's so weird to have BM be considered the raiding spec, since in so many other expansions it was considered subpar DPS...
Those tier set bonuses though... really boring. Same with previous tiers too really... just pure numbers stuff, nothing like the Hellfire citadel instant cast aimed shot.

[Emerald Archer]

Think the main thing here is, BM will probably go back to being THE raid spec for almost all situations for the next raid. The current tier seems to break down like this: SV=another tier of ST benefit. MM=great AoE potential thru TS usage and MS benefiting MuS and SW alike, but due to the piss poor damage of Focus Generators will not see much benefit at all ST. Even with the meme build, AS /MuS will only benefit from 1 MS at a time, unless using Zevrims and lucky with procs. BM=like SV, a ST focus thru tier, but a better toolkit for sustained AoE as needed compared to SV.
I'm not saying BM will be amazing, but unless there's an AoE focus in the next raid, it seems like the tier will benefit the more "all around" aspect of BM.

Well, meme build has never used the 4pc, of both t19 and t20 and still is extremely strong, and is beyond ahead of BM on AoE. So it not being a strong 4pc for meme, means nothing. Unless BM gets a large rework, or MM does, MM will still destroy it on AoE.

So MM will still be a main raiding spec, for any aoe fights, but you're right in that it wouldn't be surprising if BM became slightly ahead of MM in ST.

You'd have to play MM at least, if you wanted to play the best spec, because of the AoE, and if BM has stronger ST, you'd want to play that aswell. And just play both in raids.

But one thing, known for sure. Is unless there's a kit change, MM will beat BM on AoE.

[HappyLuckBox]

Thank god they are getting rid of the boring aimed shot build, hopefully marked shot/meme spec/ or some new build with multiple abililties/mobility will become the main spec. Tired of doing 60% of my damage with one ability that forces you to turret.

[Bepples]

It's so weird to have BM be considered the raiding spec, since in so many other expansions it was considered subpar DPS...
Those tier set bonuses though... really boring. Same with previous tiers too really... just pure numbers stuff, nothing like the Hellfire citadel instant cast aimed shot.

Not really? BM was top all throughout Blackrock Foundry as well as throughout much of MoP. I don't remember the exact patch by patch rankings before MoP besides the fact that SV was top in DS and BM was top throughout BC, but nonetheless BM has been a strong raiding spec for a while now. Really HFC and EN were the exceptions.

[Emerald Archer]

Not really? BM was top all throughout Blackrock Foundry as well as throughout much of MoP. I don't remember the exact patch by patch rankings before MoP besides the fact that SV was top in DS and BM was top throughout BC, but nonetheless BM has been a strong raiding spec for a while now. Really HFC and EN were the exceptions.

HFC/EN/ToV/Start of NH BM was pretty trash. But yeah, after a few buffs in NH, they became a great spec, MM just also had its place. BM king of 5, MM king of 4, and the last, Gul'dan, both were very strong at different things.

[Rehija]

Combine the BM set with the boots and you get a lot of juggling. Sounds fun to me and im looking foreward to it

[Deleted]

BM sounds boring. I'm not a fan of flat damage increases, though it's easy to tune. The 4p looks pretty redundant for Stomp. We already have a 50%-60% BW uptime during which our KC cooldown is basically the time it takes for you to get off a Cobra Shot. Obviously more KC and less CS is going to be a sizeable DPS increase, and it might also reduce some downtime the spec still has by allowing more frequent KC usage outside of BW. The proc based gameplay isn't very appealing imo.

Not too sure about MM. A double Marked Shot proc definitely isn't too shabby, especially in dungeons this will be filthy. The second one? On a Patchwerk fight like Goroth AS is about 5% of our total damage. And while we use the focus generators a lot, that can't be such a massive difference maker?

Still, not too bad I suppose, though I'd like them to continue on the Aimed Shot route.

[Khallid]

You seemed very quickly offended by a simple word.

Meme build casts more marked shots than SW - Fact
Sidewinders, while yes it generates focus so will get the dmg buff, does like no damage.

Have you even used Sidewinders at all since 7.1? Last time I checked it crits above 800k, over 1.2 million during Trueshot. Sure it will still be weak if it turns out to be a 10% damage increase, but it will be strong if it's 30% or more. It also gives 35 focus, which is worth as much as 4.4 Aimed Shots. If the buff is big, it could refresh your whole focus bar in one hit, reducing the downtime significantly. And if you end up using Marked Shot more often than Aimed Shot anyway, Trick Shot loses value.