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  1. #61
    You should probably sim yourself.
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    You should probably sim yourself.
    I read your signature and was really hoping it's be something like "yall motherfucker need SimC"

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunwolf View Post
    I hate this answer too, and agree its seen far too often.

    On one side, its usually the best answer if you ask something specific about your character like stat priority, relics, or trinkets which is what sims are best for. But sometimes I just wanna hear an opinion, like what people think of various trinkets or trinket combos. Talents also usually get the "sim it" answer, but its useful info to have people give their opinions on various talents in different situations (raid bosses or M+, single or cleave, ect). Especially when it comes to less popular talents that might not have much testing or input.

    The thing with sims is that they aren't perfect, they need to be programmed and require input from players to get it up to par. The people who do work on it for Shaman do an awesome job and the sim is a great tool, but it can have flaws. Like I remember reading that the talent "Lightning Shield" doesn't sim properly, and "Earthen Spike" wasn't simming properly in the past too.... so we don't know the true potential of these talents unless someone tests in game and reports on it. Its certainly the best tool we have tho, so while not perfect its better then just guessing.

    One other thing that makes me wary of sims is that they are always tested and reported with Patchwerk fights only. This means our character is always attacking the target and doesn't move.... it makes me think that this fight type will skew results by not factoring in lower uptime cause your moving around to avoid mechanics or target switching and stuff. A stat like haste could be slightly overvalued cause of patchwerks 100% uptime, where our imbues and other passive damage will do alot more when in reality this won't ever happen cause we won't always be hitting the boss. I like to use the other fight types like "helter skelter" and stuff just to double check various results, but again no one posts that stuff usually. I wish we had more modes that we could customize cause fight types like "low mobility" and "high mobility" don't really cut it for me but I don't have much advanced experience with sims or how to make custom fight scenarios (if anyone knows how to make custom fights tho please let me know). Its a good thing that raidbots website is out now tho since its made it much easier for anyone to sim stuff quickly and simply.

    Another thing aside from sims that can help alot is to look up rankings for current raid of your class/spec. This lets you see the top 10 enhance shaman for each raid boss, what talent setup they had, gear they used like legendaries and trinkets, plus lots of other useful info. Its a good guideline to follow even if not specific to your character.

    So "just sim it" can be annoying to see, and on forums I like to see discussion, but I also don't blame people for saying it esp when someone asks a very specific question like "which gear/leggo/relic/trinket should I use?" since the sims will typically give the best answer. But say now that ToS is out and we have all these new trinkets, seeing more discussion about it and peoples experiences with various trinkets in game can be very useful info that the sims can't really give.
    You have no idea how SimCraft works.

    Quote Originally Posted by felix014 View Post
    I've been in this forum for 5 years, not many posts i know but i've seen the change of people's responses to the posts.Simming was always around but ppl were way constructive and helpful with explanations rather than just saying "simyourself".I completely agree with the op's thoughts.
    The ppl who asks these questions like "which item is better", or "which build for x boss etc.." imo, either a returning player from a long break, or casually raiding just to have fun and see the content.You wouldnt expect these questions from an end-game raiding player as he's probably allready doing simming for himself.
    Many raiders allready know which stats are better and which are worse amongs 3 builds, or which build is better for which boss.The people who are asking these questions is not after min/maxing every build/stat.So if you want to help them, help them with what you know, or you can always ignore these posts.
    You act like SimCraft is some arcane thing that's difficult to understand. It's actually pretty easy, and with RaidBots there's literally no difficulty at all. There is plenty of discussion to be found in a lot of different places, but asking "which item is better", unless they are wildly different ilvls, is like asking "what's the weather like outside right now?" The answer is going to be extremely specific to your particular case and you can easily figure it out yourself. In most such cases, "sim it" is the appropriate answer.
    Beta Club Brosquad

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwraith View Post


    This is literally the exact opposite of true.
    Its actually very true. Whenever people post sim results, or you see them in guides, its almost always patchwerk... which is what I was saying. Not that other fight styles don't exist in the sim. I know the reason for this is its the most reliable fight type, less outside factors and applicable to everything.. but doesn't change the fact that its not the type of fights you run into in the live game.

    I mentioned Helterskelter in my post so I know there are multiple "fight styles" and I usually recommend people to test using various styles and compare the results.... like test with patchwerk, cleave, lightmovement and helter skelter then compare them and make your own judgement. This is because movement can really change things and patchwerk isn't a common fight type in the actual game. The problem for me as I mentioned in my post is that you only have a few fight styles to pick from and like "lightmobility" is too light where movement occurs every 1m 25sec or "highmobility" which is super high at every 10 sec... there isn't any middle ground of every 30-45 sec, the closest is helter skelter which is why I prefer that one even tho it adds alot of other variables.

    As far as I know from reading the wiki and guides, there isn't any simple way to customize the fight style to pick your own mechanics like movement or stuns and stuff. You have use coding to program your own custom raid event in the code... which doesn't seem too complicated using the wiki but still a bit advanced considering you can customize other things like fight length or iterations. Again, dunno if anything has changed recently to make this easier, in which case I may be wrong about customization here.

    Example of the code:

    #This example will make the raid spend 15s moving every 30s.
    raid_events+=/movement,cooldown=30,duration=15


    So you program your own raid event/fight style and can customize the factors but I dunno why you can't do it using the GUI when they give you lots of other things to customize like fight length.

    Another thing is the preset Action priority list for each class. I think another reason that patchwerk is used it because the priority list works best for a stationary fight, while extra variables like movement or adds could have small errors from a poorly coded priority list or just a bit buggy with less testing then the standard patchwerk. Again, this all depends on who is updating the sims for each class.... from what I have seen, the people working on Shaman do a pretty good job but there is still room for error.



    So while there are various fight types not many people use them or report anything other then patchwerk, which should change I think. Should be like patchwerk, cleave, and helter skelter or something for 3 diff types of raid fights that factor stuff like adds or movement also. This gives a much more well rounded picture. I have seen people do this more often, like I think the ele guide site stormearthlava posts diff fight styles for their sim results, but alot still just stick to patchwerk and base everything off that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Greif9 View Post
    That is a choice not a limitation of the software. You can sim different types of fights, with movement, adds and all those kinds of things, you can even write your own fight profiles for simcraft to follow. The thing is, the more you assume about a fight the less generally applicable your results become, that is why the most common point of reference is patchwerk, as you can get a lot of useful info out of that and then apply game knowledge to adjust for the real fight conditions.



    This skews at least as hard as simcraft. It skews you towards things that work at the highest level of gear and towards cheesing the fights by having other people do all the shit jobs/leaving all the adds to you for padding.
    I went into detail about the different raid events above so won't repeat it again but I think more people should report their results using say patchwerk, cleave, and helter skelter to reflect stationary, aoe, and movement instead of just stationary for more well rounded results. I know the sim is not supposed to be an actual combat sim, just a basic way to see how differences in stats or gear can change your average dps over thousands of sims, but I still think it would be a much better resource if more people compared various fight styles then just patchwerk.

    There is also the whole "sims are gospel" attitude. I often see sim results like various talent setups or trinket combos that have very close results of only a couple thousand DPS with overlapping margins of error, but just cause one setup is on top (even if only like a 5k dps difference) it is always stated to be the best when other variables, like movement, could greatly effect the actual ingame effectiveness of that setup. Thankfully from what I've seen of shaman guides like werdup's he goes out of his way to state that the numbers are close when posting his simresults but not everyone does or understands that.

    As for looking at wowlogs, you are right about that top % of players skewing data by cheesing fights and stuff but still good for the same thing as simcraft, a general idea of what works and what doesn't.... with added benefit of being ingame data.

    Not trying to trash the sims, they are a very useful tool that are usually pretty accurate but I do think there is room for improvement.

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