In case you need a reminder of why Russia isn't Americas friend.

[Deleted]

wait a minute... sit and do nothing sounds perfectly reasonable to you? so just let them build nukes, get the range to hit USA and their key enemies. then sit and wait for the bombs to fall? how can that even be a real strategy...

Implying NK is a threat, or will be in any foreseeable future. But better nuke them, just to be safe, right? Gotta bring some freedom to those peasants.

So your solution to NK is the Obama solution?

But what happened to America fuck yeah we need to crush NK because reasons and things? Where was the make america great again by decimating other countries?

Why is it not surprising that Trumpettes are giving up on North Korean military action?

Why did you quote me? I'm not a Trumpet, nor did I ever say NK needed to be crushed or anything like that.

[caervek]

A better strategy would be to lift all sanctions and embargos, send aid free of charge to the people of NK (regardless of where it ends at) and let NK prosper to a point where its people overthrow the dictator because he cannot play the "Evil West" card anymore.

Indeed.

Hell the only reason the people of NK have put up with the Kim dynasty as long as they have is because they're terrified if their country isn't made strong then the US soldiers that murdered/raped their way across the peninsula and partitioned their country in two will come back for a second round, and the constant hardline attitude from the USA only helps to further this belief.

[Deleted]

Any reasonable person wouldn't want millions to suffer because of politicians. US is the only exception because US are always the assholes. Decades of policy of undermining every other country has led to that. I would be ok with NK nuking the shit out of US for everything US did, including Korean crisis, if it wasn't for innocent people dying. Maybe they'll find a way to deliver nukes only to DC, then its a win-win for everyone.

Is Russia a US friend? Nope. US made sure of that. Russia tried to be friends after USSR collapse, but US did everything they could to try to put Russia down for good old cold war mentality sake.

Article title is correct. But outrage is misplaced. Outrage should be at US for trying to starve millions of innocent people and for US foreign policy of undermining everyone to make more money.

(Infracted)

[GreenJesus]

Any reasonable person wouldn't want millions to suffer because of politicians. US is the only exception because US are always the assholes. Decades of policy of undermining every other country has led to that. I would be ok with NK nuking the shit out of US for everything US did, including Korean crisis, if it wasn't for innocent people dying. Maybe they'll find a way to deliver nukes only to DC, then its a win-win for everyone.

Is Russia a US friend? Nope. US made sure of that. Russia tried to be friends after USSR collapse, but US did everything they could to try to put Russia down for good old cold war mentality sake.

Article title is correct. But outrage is misplaced. Outrage should be at US for trying to starve millions of innocent people and for US foreign policy of undermining everyone to make more money.

How else do you pressure a regime? Sanctions are better than firing 500 missiles at them don't you agree?

[procne]

Aren't the poor people of NK already suffering enough (in no small part due to the sanctions orchestrated by the US)? Why does the US want them to suffer even more? What kind of a monster wants to inflict such a horror on millions of innocent people?

It's nice and stuff that you think about them, but none of the world leaders really cares for them (even if they say they do). Neither US, nor Japan, nor China, nor South Korea, not Russia.

[Independent voter]

Russia created North Korea during the Cold War struggle. North Korea was a satellite state like Poland and East Germany.




Soviet Occupation of Northern Korea (1945–1948)[edit]
The Soviet 25th Army took part in the Soviet advance into northern Korea immediately after World War II had ended, and was headquartered at Pyongyang for a period. Like the American forces in the south, Soviet troops remained in Korea after the end of the war to rebuild the country.[1]

Soviet soldiers were instrumental in the creation and early development of the North Korean People's Army and Korean People's Air Force, as well as for stabilizing the early years of the Northern regime. The Shineuiju Air Force Academy was founded under Soviet leadership on 25 October 1945 in order to train new pilots.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...the_Korean_War


So in other words, along with Assad of Syria, Kim Jung-un of North Korea is Russia's ally. Russia has really picked some winners to back.

[Deleted]

How else do you pressure a regime? Sanctions are better than firing 500 missiles at them don't you agree?

Maybe instead of pressuring them, its time to fix things? Try to be constructive for a change instead of destructive?

Yes, they have nukes. Tough luck. US has nukes too. So why can US have nukes (and the only country to actually use nukes against other country) and NK can't? Why double standards? Get over it and try to resolve conflict peacefully.

Thing is US is incapable of peace. US policy is to dominate other countries and pressure them into submission to follow US view of the world. Part of it is because of massive US military industry that wants to sell weapons, so they can't have peace when they can make profit from war. That's what is wrong with US. It is being ran by maniacs bent on world domination, killing millions worldwide every year for profit in name of democracy/anti-terrorism/insert-buzzword, and nothing is going to change unless people would want to change that, but people are too busy with fake partisan bullshit, privileges of minorities, shopping and reality shows to notice stuff outside of their country.

[Anon56]

In case you need a reminder of what Russia isn't Americas friend

How much times do we have to remind you that America doesn't have any "friend" on this planet ? At best you have trade partners.

[caervek]

Russia created North Korea during the Cold War struggle.

North Korea is the "original" Korea, it was the south that was created when Korea was partitioned. This is why the Koreans are so eager to follow the Kims, because they are scared that if their country becomes weak (they don't know it already is lol) then the Americans who cut their country in half and raped/murdered their people will return.

- - - Updated - - -

How else do you pressure a regime? Sanctions are better than firing 500 missiles at them don't you agree?

Sanctions don't pressure regimes, they make life hard for the innocent civilians. The idea of sanctions is that you can apply them to X country and it looks like you're taking action and doing something positive but in reality you're just making the innocent suffer in the hope that they might maybe rebel or something.

Sanctions normally backfire because the innocents being hurt by them usually know it's not their governments fault but the foreign enemies of their government and it actually strengthens their support for said government.

[Lartok]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-bl...145320489.html



Does we even need anymore evidence?



Title should say why not what.

Your thread is essentially pointing out that the US is a massive bully and Russia isn't the bullies friend because they disagree with them. Good...

[StayTuned]

What the fuck?

Don't go blaming the US or anyone else for that matter for the atrocities being committed to the North Korean people. Blame the petulant psychotic dictator leading the country and his corrupt sycophants Generals propping him up in power. The sooner he is assassinated the better.

What kind of atrocities are the incredibly isolated and dirt poor people in NK committing? Oh, you mean their government is responsible?

Well, in that case you are right, let's keep on tormenting those who have nothing to eat. I am sure their oh-so-caring government will realize they're all shit and change because of the mighty US sanctions.

[Deleted]

Soft power beats the NK regime. The more USB sticks with tv shows, films and news from the outside world you get into that shithole the better. NK society is really changing as they have to liberalise because of the upper classes getting access to the world. Its a very complicated society. The government has to turn a blind eye to the wealthier citizens because of thier influence, but that influence will factionalise and undermine the regime via liberalisation. You are better off dropping harddrives rather than bombs, cheaper too.

[Karon]

Aren't the poor people of NK already suffering enough (in no small part due to the sanctions orchestrated by the US)? Why does the US want them to suffer even more? What kind of a monster wants to inflict such a horror on millions of innocent people?

Maybe you should read up on the shit you're claiming? The people in NK are suffering because their government fucks them over.

[Shalcker]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-bl...145320489.html
Does we even need anymore evidence?
Title should say why not what.

Friend is someone who stops you from doing stupid thing that will hurt you.

And "significant measures" from world community against North Korea bigger then the ones already in place are stupid.

They'll definitely not make them stop doing what they are doing; rather it will intensify their efforts.

- - - Updated - - -

For the folks lining up with Putin - if harsher economic sanctions are out now, and military action is out, and we can't force China to take action (diplomacy)...what do?

Why exactly do you think that doing anything will make situation better rather then worse? :/

Why do you have to do more then you already do?

There are rapid diminishing returns in those efforts, and you are already sanctioning everything North Korean with high impact.

[I Push Buttons]

A better strategy would be to lift all sanctions and embargos, send aid free of charge to the people of NK (regardless of where it ends at) and let NK prosper to a point where its people overthrow the dictator because he cannot play the "Evil West" card anymore.

That's not how a police state ruled by a tyrant surrounded by a cult of personality works.

We (the international community, especially China) already send them tons of what they need to survive and have done so continuously, even through sanctions, since a famine killed millions of North Koreans in the mid 90s.

In North Korea though, the propaganda spins that as the west submitting to the Dear Leader, to the Dear Leader providing for the people, etc... Anyone who questions the narrative (and their families) goes to the death camps, thus people learn real quick not to question it.

All increasing the aid would accomplish is reinforcing that narrative.

[Nutri]

Or.... The United States have their attitude of "We're going to put our fingers in every pie, everywhere around the world and we'll have a taste of it and tell you how to change your recipe" and Russia is more like "Meh whatever, we can take care of ourselves, just don't piss on our lawn".

[Elim Garak]

That's not how a police state ruled by a tyrant surrounded by a cult of personality works.

We (the international community, especially China) already send them tons of what they need to survive and have done so continuously, even through sanctions, since a famine killed millions of North Koreans in the mid 90s.

In North Korea though, the propaganda spins that as the west submitting to the Dear Leader, to the Dear Leader providing for the people, etc... Anyone who questions the narrative (and their families) goes to the death camps, thus people learn real quick not to question it.

All increasing the aid would accomplish is reinforcing that narrative.

Oh please. International community doesn't do shit, China does, but China is FRIEND to NK. China helps while the rest of the world hates NK. They don't even need to spin anything - because that's the reality. THIS and nothing else reinforces their position to support their Kim. Sanctions and Embargoes help Kim to control the populace. International aid can only help WITHOUT sanctions and embargoes. Because it would be hard for Kim to lie about said aid and why it doesn't reach the people. All he need to do now is just say that the much needed aid from our friend China is limited by sanctions and embargoes and thus not everyone will see it.

[Shalcker]

Are there no third options? Like how West Germany treated / approaced East Germany? A long process, but eventually that ended with the re-unification of both countries.

But you see... noone wants United Korea with nukes either.

[I Push Buttons]

Oh please. International community doesn't do shit, China does, but China is FRIEND to NK. China helps while the rest of the world hates NK. They don't even need to spin anything - because that's the reality. THIS and nothing else reinforces their position to support their Kim. Sanctions and Embargoes help Kim to control the populace. International aid can only help WITHOUT sanctions and embargoes. Because it would be hard for Kim to lie about said aid and why it doesn't reach the people. All he need to do now is just say that the much needed aid from our friend China is limited by sanctions and embargoes and thus not everyone will see it.

You realize that the first sanctions against North Korea occurred in 2006, correct...? That the millions of people that died of starvation between the 1950s and 1990s and then the millions more that died during the 1990s had literally nothing to do with sanctions.

Perhaps you should read up on the subject, kiddo.

[Independent voter]

The Soviet bloc nations claim to have destroyed a combined total of between 1,000 and 1,600 UN aircraft in air-to-air combat, the most common number in sources being 1,106 UN aircraft total, including 651 F-86 Sabres. The most authoritative numbers indicate 1,016 UN aircraft, including 595 Sabres. Chinese sources claim an additional 330 victories, including 211 Sabres. The most common number used is a total of 271 victories for China and North Korea.[9] Other, more recent works claim 1,337 UN aircraft.[10]

During the entire course of the war, UN air forces lost about 3,000 aircraft. US Air Force reported a total of 1,466 aircraft lost to all causes.[11] with 757 of them lost to enemy action.[10] Of these only 139 were destroyed in air-to-air combat, with another 305 unknown or missing. Of these, just 78 Sabres were listed as lost in combat, with 26 missing.[9] US Navy and Marine Corp lost 1,248 aircraft to all causes [12] and the other UN countries lost about 300 aircraft.

Tallying claims for the many Soviet pilots who claim to have achieved ace status is extremely difficult.

Many Russian fighter pilots who fought during WWII fought for North Korea in the Korean war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ar_flying_aces

They claim to have shot down many more planes than we had lost to combat.