reconned the chronicles

[Caerule]

Aggramar was ALREADY dead. Read Chronicle. You are 100% wrong. Aggramar being slashed into 2 pieces by Sargeras is what started the war at Nihilum. Stopped reading after that since you clearly can't read. The spell was only started when the final attack by Sargeras was initiated at which point Aggramar was long dead.

Well, that's quite disrespectful. If you can't have a discussion of equal expression, I'll not waste much time on a wasted effort, but it's too bad.

But I never said Aggramar wasn't already dead. I know he died when the battle began. I don't see why that would make Norgannon incapable of snatching the soul from his body.

[purebalance]

Well, that's quite disrespectful. If you can't have a discussion of equal expression, I'll not waste much time on a wasted effort, but it's too bad.

But I never said Aggramar wasn't already dead. I know he died when the battle began. I don't see why that would make Norgannon incapable of snatching the soul from his body.

I'm sorry you take fact to mean disrespect. You must be a very fragile person to not be able to take what you dish out although nothing you said was fact. He was dead. You tried to imply otherwise and now you're backpeddling. They were in a bubble somewhere clearly not where Aggramar's body was. Much less it had been a long time since he was killed as implied by Chronicle.

Also I think you seem to not understand how souls work in just about every single religion and fiction including Warcraft: Body is dead, soul leaves to elsewhere.

[Xanato]

I'm sorry you take fact to mean disrespect. You must be a very fragile person to not be able to take what you dish out although nothing you said was fact. He was dead. You tried to imply otherwise and now you're backpeddling. They were in a bubble somewhere clearly not where Aggramar's body was. Much less it had been a long time since he was killed as implied by Chronicle.

Also I think you seem to not understand how souls work in just about every single religion and fiction including Warcraft: Body is dead, soul leaves to elsewhere.

Eons after Sargeras left the Pantheon, while the titan-forged went about their duties, Sargeras decided that the only way to save the universe from the corruption of the void lords was to purge it in flame. Unleashing the demons he had imprisoned, and in the process of doing so transforming himself into a twisted, demonic being of hatred, Sargeras began his Burning Crusade to eradicate all life in the universe. Shortly after the newly-formed Burning Legion eradicated its first world, Aggramar arrived to confront his former master, having sensed Sargeras killing the planet's constellar. He demanded an explanation from Sargeras, but when he realized that his words would not sway him, Aggramar challenged the fallen titan to single combat. The battle between the two raged until, in an explosion of fel and arcane power, both of the combatants' blades shattered. Heavily wounded, Aggramar retreated and informed the Pantheon of Sargeras' betrayal.


When the armies of the Pantheon and the Legion confronted one another near the world of Nihilam, Aggramar made one last attempt to reason with Sargeras. He approached his former tutor, unarmed, trying to persuade him by recounting tales of the glorious battles the two had fought. But Sargeras was set in his ways. With a howl of fury and sorrow, the former champion raised his blade and struck Aggramar down, nearly cleaving him in two. Outraged by this murder, the Pantheon launched an all-out assault on Sargeras, but, unable to stand against the fallen titan's fel might, soon perished as well.

-World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1, pg. 49-50

The Pantheon confronted The Burning Legion near Nihilam. Aggramar tried to reason with Sargeras one last time, and was cut down in front of The Pantheon. This started the war which ended in the defeat of The Pantheon. Just as Sargeras summoned a great fel storm to finish the Pantheon off, Norgannon wove a protective shroud around the Pantheon's souls, launching them into the Great Dark just as their bodies were destroyed.

-World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1, pg. 50

It says the protective shroud around the Pantheon's souls. It doesn't exclude Aggramar and doesn't specifically include him either. It could have easily included Aggramar who had perished just a little earlier in relative time to the others.

Show me where you see this "bubble" that didn't include Aggramar's "body".

[Zyky]

Metzen must be rolling all over his retirement for this shit writing.

[Polybius]

If you're so good at reading upcoming patch info, why did you overlook the Titan Builder?

[FelPlague]

because it wasn't the fel component that did it. it was the curse of sethe in combination with it.

and they could have learned from that and recreated it on argus

[Theoris]

Aggramar was ALREADY dead. Read Chronicle. You are 100% wrong. Aggramar being slashed into 2 pieces by Sargeras is what started the war at Nihilum. Stopped reading after that since you clearly can't read. The spell was only started when the final attack by Sargeras was initiated at which point Aggramar was long dead.

Chronicle states that a bare shadow of Aggramar's old power lingered within Tyr when he faced the C'Thraxxi generals, so Aggramar's soul was apparently saved as well.

[purebalance]

Chronicle states that a bare shadow of Aggramar's old power lingered within Tyr when he faced the C'Thraxxi generals, so Aggramar's soul was apparently saved as well.

That isn't the same. Aggramar imbued him initially. That is what that meant. 100% different from the soul transfer which happened after they initially empowered the keepers to fight the old gods.

- - - Updated - - -

Metzen must be rolling all over his retirement for this shit writing.

Metzen had a hand in this....

- - - Updated - - -

Eons after Sargeras left the Pantheon, while the titan-forged went about their duties, Sargeras decided that the only way to save the universe from the corruption of the void lords was to purge it in flame. Unleashing the demons he had imprisoned, and in the process of doing so transforming himself into a twisted, demonic being of hatred, Sargeras began his Burning Crusade to eradicate all life in the universe. Shortly after the newly-formed Burning Legion eradicated its first world, Aggramar arrived to confront his former master, having sensed Sargeras killing the planet's constellar. He demanded an explanation from Sargeras, but when he realized that his words would not sway him, Aggramar challenged the fallen titan to single combat. The battle between the two raged until, in an explosion of fel and arcane power, both of the combatants' blades shattered. Heavily wounded, Aggramar retreated and informed the Pantheon of Sargeras' betrayal.


When the armies of the Pantheon and the Legion confronted one another near the world of Nihilam, Aggramar made one last attempt to reason with Sargeras. He approached his former tutor, unarmed, trying to persuade him by recounting tales of the glorious battles the two had fought. But Sargeras was set in his ways. With a howl of fury and sorrow, the former champion raised his blade and struck Aggramar down, nearly cleaving him in two. Outraged by this murder, the Pantheon launched an all-out assault on Sargeras, but, unable to stand against the fallen titan's fel might, soon perished as well.

-World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1, pg. 49-50

The Pantheon confronted The Burning Legion near Nihilam. Aggramar tried to reason with Sargeras one last time, and was cut down in front of The Pantheon. This started the war which ended in the defeat of The Pantheon. Just as Sargeras summoned a great fel storm to finish the Pantheon off, Norgannon wove a protective shroud around the Pantheon's souls, launching them into the Great Dark just as their bodies were destroyed.

-World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1, pg. 50

It says the protective shroud around the Pantheon's souls. It doesn't exclude Aggramar and doesn't specifically include him either. It could have easily included Aggramar who had perished just a little earlier in relative time to the others.

Show me where you see this "bubble" that didn't include Aggramar's "body".

He was already dead and they were fighting across the entire region. Show me where a dead body that died from being cleaved retains its soul inside the body. You can quote that because it supports what I said. Aggramar's soul was already gone by the time Norgannon cast the spell.

[derpkitteh]

and they could have learned from that and recreated it on argus

they could have indeed.

but not 25,000+ years before it was ever conceived in the first place. before sethe even died.

[Theoris]

That isn't the same. Aggramar imbued him initially. That is what that meant. 100% different from the soul transfer which happened after they initially empowered the keepers to fight the old gods.

Now that you mention it, I suppose it would have said "Aggramar's power" instead of "old power" had Aggramar's soul also survived. Come to think of it, that's probably the reason why he's the only corrupt member of the Pantheon on Argus (if Sargeras actually did indeed somehow capture the other titans' souls, that is).

[Zyky]

Metzen had a hand in this....

Metzen said when he retired that he did very little story work on Legion. He did the voices for his last 2 characters, one of whom is dead and the other is MIA Thrallboy, and that's it.

[Diatethis]

...You know this is only the first build of the PTR, right? That we don't know how they got there or how we're even going to see them in the first place? What makes you think the Keepers didn't just follow us to Argus later?

Come on now. It's WAY too early to make assumptions like this. Christ.

[Qualia]

Why were you guys arguing about Aggramar being there? He should be the easiest guy to be brought back. He "only" got cleaved in half. That was deadly, but there wasn't any fel storm that supposed to obliterate both body and soul involved. So... ok, Aggramar is dead. What can happen to his soul? Assuming no outside interference, it should went to Shadowlands just like everyone else's souls after dead. Wouldn't be too far off for Sargeras (or some kind of demons) to be able to track his soul down in Shadowlands and brought it back if Odyn's Valkyrs can do the same on Azeroth.

[Caerule]

I'm sorry you take fact to mean disrespect. You must be a very fragile person to not be able to take what you dish out although nothing you said was fact. He was dead. You tried to imply otherwise and now you're backpeddling. They were in a bubble somewhere clearly not where Aggramar's body was. Much less it had been a long time since he was killed as implied by Chronicle.

Also I think you seem to not understand how souls work in just about every single religion and fiction including Warcraft: Body is dead, soul leaves to elsewhere.

I'm happy to discuss with you. But I really don't see how you can claim "You can't read. I refuse to read your arguments" isn't disrespectful? How can anyone have a discussion with you like that? Anyway, I gave you a chance to return to civil discourse, but you simply doubled down on personal insults. That just means you can't handle discussions and shouldn't be on a discussion forum. Dismissing a persons validity, rather than their claims, isn't how discussions work.

I can't discuss with you like that, as much as I'd want to. I'll still counter your arguments, but only for the sake of the thread discussion.

The truth we don't know how long the battle was between the start with Aggramar's death, and the fall of the rest of the Titans. Nor whether they died near Aggramar. All we know at this moment is that it speaks only of the "Pantheon"'s spirits being rescued by Norgannon. It's also stated nowhere that Keeper Tyr didn't go through the experience the other Keepers did.
The new information we have is that Sargeras seems to have the souls of all the Titans. And Aggramar's is certainly not gone. I don't see why you claim Aggramar's death would mean his soul was gone, though. Especially as WoW especially has people resurrected left and right. And there's lots of quests where sentient undead are raised from old corpses. Or where you purify or bless corpses to send on their souls. Or where the Legion harvests souls from bodies that have been dead for millennia. Souls having strong ties to their bodies is pretty much classic WoW. The Titans were worried about their spirits fading without suitable hosts, but that was only once they'd left their broken bodies. Ultimately the case is that Aggramar's soul didn't fade, but that Sargeras got it, same as the other ones. Whether he claimed it the same way as the others, in the end doesn't really matter. For the moment, there just seems no real reason why that couldn't be the case.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, we got our news...

Sargeras ressurected Aggramar.

So, in 7.3, we're going to fight the ACTUAL Aggramar, but...corrupted...


Fuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkk...........

[Deleted]

Metzen said when he retired that he did very little story work on Legion. He did the voices for his last 2 characters, one of whom is dead and the other is MIA Thrallboy, and that's it.

Well, this is not Legion; it's Chronicle. And in both Chronicle books it literally says "Written By: CHRIS METZEN, MATT BURNS and ROBERT BROOKS" at the beginning.

[cparle87]

Metzen said when he retired that he did very little story work on Legion. He did the voices for his last 2 characters, one of whom is dead and the other is MIA Thrallboy, and that's it.

Who is the other one Metzen voiced? The one who is dead now?

[Utigarde]

So yeah, Eonar lines confirm it is a retcon. Chronicles says that their souls went to their keepers, in Eonar's case, Freya. New lines say she's been lingering and hiding from Sargeras in her domain since her demise.

[Leih]

Who is the other one Metzen voiced? The one who is dead now?

Varian Wrynn

[Zyky]

Well, this is not Legion; it's Chronicle. And in both Chronicle books it literally says "Written By: CHRIS METZEN, MATT BURNS and ROBERT BROOKS" at the beginning.

What are you talking about, my comment was about how Legion is making Metzen roll around in his retirement, how the current Devs are ruining what he spent over 20 years working on and creating a story. The Devs are destroying HIS lore for HIS game by ignoring the Chronicle lore. You might want to look more into the thread instead of just quoting someone without reading anything going on.

Who is the other one Metzen voiced? The one who is dead now?

Varian