Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
... LastLast
  1. #161
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sarif Industries, Detroit
    Posts
    29,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Stop Pretending View Post
    No. Because healthcare is never free you pay taxes into it.
    Gotta love when people who don't read the OP have to come in with this boring talking point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LaplaceNoMa View Post
    Then stop saying stupid uneducated bullshit like 'free X'.
    Most people know what is meant when people say "free healthcare" or "free education."

    Free public education is free in that you don't pay to go. Instead everyone pays some taxes which contribute to paying for that service. Same goes for healthcare. It's free up front.
    Putin khuliyo

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Baelic View Post
    If I recall, each State gets to choose how that funding is dispersed.
    You are confusing Medicare and Medicaid. States have no power over medicare

  3. #163
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sarif Industries, Detroit
    Posts
    29,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Psykee View Post
    Unless you let people die in the gutter, you are paying for sick people indirectly want it or not.
    The reason why you want a good health system is because you can prevent costs and deal with emergencies efficiently.
    The US is running a highly expensive and highly inefficient system, which hurts your country's economy.
    Which is why I find it hilarious that the "fiscally conservative" party refuses to support a universal healthcare system that would, in the long term, cost less.
    Putin khuliyo

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Gotta love when people who don't read the OP have to come in with this boring talking point.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Most people know what is meant when people say "free healthcare" or "free education."

    Free public education is free in that you don't pay to go. Instead everyone pays some taxes which contribute to paying for that service. Same goes for healthcare. It's free up front.
    Again, if anyone pays for it, it isn't free. Just because you stole something from a shop, it doesn't make the goods you stole 'free', it makes them 'stolen'.
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    The unfortunate fact of the matter is that many, many people in wow are very passionate in their obsession with acting like a complete retard.

  5. #165
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sarif Industries, Detroit
    Posts
    29,063
    Quote Originally Posted by LaplaceNoMa View Post
    Again, if anyone pays for it, it isn't free. Just because you stole something from a shop, it doesn't make the goods you stole 'free', it makes them 'stolen'.
    But the point of saying "free" indicates that the user doesn't directly pay for it.
    Putin khuliyo

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    You are confusing Medicare and Medicaid. States have no power over medicare
    Fair enough, I'm not a US citizen so my knowledge can always use more work. You have indeed proven me wrong.

    Doing a quick google though... While Medicare comes close, it does not compare to the type of NHS that is being discussed in this thread. Mainly due to its restrictions and the requirement to purchase private insurance anyway.

  7. #167
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ██████
    Posts
    26,281
    Will poor Republicans realize their party is fucking them over.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  8. #168
    Healthcare here in the states is a massive trough where everyone gouges from insurance companies to hospitals to politicians.

    It would take a seismic shift in the 3 branches for this to ever be reality imo.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    Will poor Republicans realize their party is fucking them over.
    As long as they get to keep there toys and stick it to dem libruls then no.

  9. #169
    I think the USA will have "free healthcare" when all three things below happen:

    1) The majority of citizens trust their govemnment. http://www.npr.org/2015/11/23/457063...the-government

    2) When a majority citizens are willing to increase taxes to pay for universal coverage. (various studies available for either position so figure 50% approval at best)

    3) When a majority of citizens are willing to accept the coverage options allowed by the governement only. (again various studies).

    This thou assumes you mean "free healthcare" meaning an entirely centrally managed healthcare system for the entire country.

    If that isn't what you mean then you'll have to be more specific as what version of "free healthcare" you mean.
    The Right isn't universally bad. The Left isn't universally good. The Left isn't universally bad. The Right isn't universally good. Legal doesn't equal moral. Moral doesn't equal legal. Illegal doesn't equal immoral. Immoral doesn't equal illegal.

    Have a nice day.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Please don't be pedantic and say free healthcare isn't actually free, we're aware we pay via taxes but it's free in the sense we don't pay a bill

    So do you think the USA will ever adapt to a healthcare system similar to the NHS? I know the US on whole isn't a huge fan of welfare systems partly due to Capitalism but it can not be ignored that the statistics regarding people dying simply because they couldn't afford healthcare is alarming
    It's not pedantic saying free healthcare isn't free, it's the whole point.

    Here in Australia we have what you would term 'free healthcare'. You can go see a GP or enter a hospital and have no out of pocket expenses. But it's an illusion. You actually pay for it when you pay the medicare tax. Worse, you are not only paying for your own healthcare, but for others who don't work as well. My medicare taxes cover my healthcare costs AND for the guy next door on welfare who spends most his days on the beach.

    It's the same bullshit myth propagated by the left when they say shit like free education, free housing and free healthcare. Nothing in life is free, it's paid by hard working saps like me whose only reward is to get taxed to death to prop up the indolent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xbcfgxsuj View Post
    Healthcare here in the states is a massive trough where everyone gouges from insurance companies to hospitals to politicians.

    It would take a seismic shift in the 3 branches for this to ever be reality imo.
    Exactly this. When you have government paid health systems the costs skyrocket. Why give out an asprin for a headache when you can run a brain scan? The government is paying for it so why not? As a result, health costs as a % or GDP increases every year. And with an ageing population and no incentive to improve productivity, the costs become unsustainable and you end up with a mediocre health system.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Baelic View Post
    Fair enough, I'm not a US citizen so my knowledge can always use more work. You have indeed proven me wrong.

    Doing a quick google though... While Medicare comes close, it does not compare to the type of NHS that is being discussed in this thread. Mainly due to its restrictions and the requirement to purchase private insurance anyway.
    There are no requirements that with medicare you have to purchase private insurance. You can stick with the standard Medicare offering.

    You Can purchase Medicare HMO with your Medicare money (Medicare Advantage plans), but it follows all the same rules as medicare sometimes its even cheaper since they do more health management to save money. They also offer additional benefits over straight medicare.


    it comes close and it would be a great first step

  12. #172
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Bank of the Columbia
    Posts
    20,935
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    there are plenty of non profit insurance companies and the prices of their products are in line with just about every other for profit insurance company.

    between cost of care and administrative cost there is only a 2-4% profit margin on the top 6 insurance companies in this country.

    everyone thinks they are some kind of profit machines when they are not.

    - - - Updated - - -



    then you were not around in the 90's lol

    - - - Updated - - -



    Ya look at all those states that prevent people from collecting Medicare.....umm..
    I saw no increases in the 90s actually. I always had 100% employer covered insurance because I was single.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    Will poor Republicans realize their party is fucking them over.
    About the time that the Dems realize being poor does not make you liberal.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Torto View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    Exactly this. When you have government paid health systems the costs skyrocket. Why give out an asprin for a headache when you can run a brain scan? The government is paying for it so why not? As a result, health costs as a % or GDP increases every year. And with an ageing population and no incentive to improve productivity, the costs become unsustainable and you end up with a mediocre health system.
    single payer / universal plans have cost controls, benefit controls and price controls. They just don't willy nilly pay for everything. they are subject to audits, fines and fraud investigations.

    healthcare cost are going up for whole set of different reasons
    that is low on the list

  14. #174
    The answer is NEVER. The American public will never, ever accept things like high taxes and things like a VAT tax that it would take to support all that "free stuff". (like they do in Scandinavia.

    It ain't happening.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Sodka View Post
    You close those giant loopholes then the rich would not benefit, and those in power won't let that happen. You close one loophole and another opens, or they move their main headquarters over-seas so prevent paying into the system. I agree that it is not right that these corporations get away with out paying billions into the system, and with our current system where it is controlled by those people in power then I am not sure what can be done?
    It will happen if it gets bad enough sadly that's the only way to get things done since both parties are in the pockets of special interest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Camthur View Post
    The answer is NEVER. The American public will never, ever accept things like high taxes and things like a VAT tax that it would take to support all that "free stuff". (like they do in Scandinavia.

    It ain't happening.
    Again the US doesn't need to do that we give giant giveaways to giant corporations and the rich, also you are already paying a tax for your healthcare your employer is the one paying that tax and some people pay part out of pocket as well. We just need to stop spending all that money on a shitty system, we already spend more than anyone else in the world and get crap results for it.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    The studies go back a couple of years because they are quite rare but you are still just plain wrong.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775760/
    http://www.urban.org/sites/default/f...ause-of-It.PDF

    These are from 2008/2009. But i'm sure there are others more recent out there too.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Or just call it the Affordable Care Act.
    Nah calling the republican backed Perry plan the ACA is not racist enough for the republican base.

  17. #177
    Titan
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    America's Hat
    Posts
    14,128
    Not so long as the GOP exists.

  18. #178
    The Lightbringer bladeXcrasher's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Again the US doesn't need to do that we give giant giveaways to giant corporations and the rich, also you are already paying a tax for your healthcare your employer is the one paying that tax and some people pay part out of pocket as well. We just need to stop spending all that money on a shitty system, we already spend more than anyone else in the world and get crap results for it.
    So much this...the US could better manage the money they have and improve healthcare and education benefits.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I saw no increases in the 90s actually. I always had 100% employer covered insurance because I was single.

    - - - Updated - - -



    About the time that the Dems realize being poor does not make you liberal.

    Then your employer soaked the cost increases. They used to pay way more and soak way more then they do today.

  20. #180
    Ok, here's a better reason for never. There's no way in the world that insurance companies won't do every thing in their power to prevent it. We're talking stuffing billions of dollars into politicians if needed. After all, you're basically proposing wiping out the entire Medical Insurance industry.

    I'm trying to figure out where this money is coming from. If the current system is Employee + Employer paying into a system, then one would thing that you'd have to ask businesses to keep pumping money out for the idea to work. How would you do that? The word you are looking for is called Taxes. Any politician that goes out there saying they need to raise taxes on businesses is committing career suicide. Heck, an entire plank of the Republican Party runs on the premise of keeping taxes on big business and rich people low to trickle down wealth to the "little guy".

    Besides our government is only good at running around in circles making up things for themselves to do. They suck at most everything else. If you do happen to manage to get that money, all they are going to do is spend it on all sorts of useless projects bribing each other for political points. (through pork belly spending in legislation)
    Last edited by Camthur; 2017-07-08 at 01:49 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •