[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Neldarie]

Why even argue with someone who has 0 raid experience /ponder.

[Redblade]

Why even argue with someone who has 0 raid experience /ponder.

Why not on the off chance that he does have a point? Besides if he doesn't isn't it a good thing to expose that his claims are BS so people actually trying to be good ignores him?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Why not on the off chance that he does have a point? Besides if he doesn't isn't it a good thing to expose that his claims are BS so people actually trying to be good ignores him?

Point alone means feth all on its own.
What matters is argumentation and proofs to claim, and a base to claim.

F.e. If I would say wow is a bad game, I might have a point, but said point would hold no value unless I provided arguments to back up such a claim of mine, the likes of why do I think so and what my thoughts are based upon, like shitty lore, shitty dev communication, shitty pvp balance, shitty and lazy approach to new location and gear models, shitty storytelling or how much of said storytelling is locked behind books Noone cares to read due to them being just as much shitty.

But make no mistake, wow having a large playerbase won't hold any water as a counterarguement. Sure, its a commercial success, but that's just it.
Take a look at Justin Emperor forgive me Bieber. Is he popular? Is he commercially successful? Do these points make him a good singer?
And no, tastes differ only to a point. After which you have no taste and become a heretical belieber.

[Kuriyama]

Nice to see this place is still on fire. I rolled to my Balance Druid now. Got her to 917, she went from 905 to that in one raid. My Ret is sitting on 908. I miss it but the Druid has more utility. Innervate is needed more than anything a Ret had. Still keeping an eye out for any Ret buffs, honestly can't believe they've just been silent this whole time. Sooner or later, they have to break.

[Reith]

Why even argue with someone who has 0 raid experience /ponder.

If you're talking about me, that's a flat-out lie lol. I guess you want to be ignored as well? Only reason for ignores is toxic environment creation, lies and elitism. Nothing else.

[Redblade]

lies

This coming from the guy who says he knows better and everyone else it doing it wrong...he just won't tell anyone what and how it's wrong. Ohh sweet irony.

[Neldarie]

Funny part is the internet tells us more truths about him than he would like it to.
His character history has everything written about the ZERO experience in raiding. Then you can also go visit the performance (raidworth) benchmark websites similar to say when buying a CPU or a new graphics card. Why would you want to ask someone with ZERO experience for advice. I mean you don't do it irl; do you? And if you do , you must be pretty fucking stupid.
Just an attention seeking roleplaying pleb nothing more nothing less. I mean there is nothing wrong with roleplaying or plebs. But if you have a mathematical/mechanical problem you don't really consult with those.

[Reith]

Funny part is the internet tells us more truths about him than he would like it to.
His character history has everything written about the ZERO experience in raiding. Then you can also go visit the performance (raidworth) benchmark websites similar to say when buying a CPU or a new graphics card. Why would you want to ask someone with ZERO experience for advice. I mean you don't do it irl; do you? And if you do , you must be pretty fucking stupid.
Just an attention seeking roleplaying pleb nothing more nothing less. I mean there is nothing wrong with roleplaying or plebs. But if you have a mathematical/mechanical problem you don't really consult with those.

Grats on describing yourself to a T, I guess, because you're not talking about me. If you actually looked at my character profile, I have raided. Why you keep saying I've never raided, I don't know. It just makes you look stupid at best and outright deceitful at worst, so keep doing it if you like. I'll keep pointing it out. Too bad you weren't born in the 1600s, eh? You'd've killed a lot of "witches" for sure.

[Deleted]

Grats on describing yourself to a T, I guess, because you're not talking about me. If you actually looked at my character profile, I have raided. Why you keep saying I've never raided, I don't know. It just makes you look stupid at best and outright deceitful at worst, so keep doing it if you like. I'll keep pointing it out. Too bad you weren't born in the 1600s, eh? You'd've killed a lot of "witches" for sure.

You managed to clear normal ToS good job
Lets take it a step further and look your character up on warcraftlogs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...tormrage/reith overall ranking of 61 so slightly over average rather mediocre overall really so I really don't see anything backing up your claims.

So to summarise you claim to know better than everyone else refuse to say in what way and you do not have the performance to back up your claims either so tell us why should we listen to what you have to say?

[Reith]

You managed to clear normal ToS good job
Lets take it a step further and look your character up on warcraftlogs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...tormrage/reith overall ranking of 61 so slightly over average rather mediocre overall really so I really don't see anything backing up your claims.

So to summarise you claim to know better than everyone else refuse to say in what way and you do not have the performance to back up your claims either so tell us why should we listen to what you have to say?

I never said I know better than everyone else, though? Can you quote where I stated that or implied it? I really never said anything like that. Rankings also depend on your raid comp (gear and skill of everyone in the raid and kill time) and I do mechanics properly on normal as a result. I don't have the luxury of being able to cheese some mechanics. Rather not make it more difficult for the healers than it already is. One example is that Infernal Burning won't one-shot you on normal, so in a high-geared, high skill group, you can pretty much just stand there and use a Shield of Vengeance as a buffer while healers heal through the dot. That's not something I can do with my group, and that's fine.

[Temna]

While raid experience certainly helps form a base, I dont think its necessary for someone to debate a point. Would I weigh the more experienced persons point more? Probably, but doesn't mean someone with less experience cannot formulate a convincing argument.

So lets stop this e-peen contest shall we and focus more on the substantive debate?

[Redblade]

I never said I know better than everyone else, though? Can you quote where I stated that or implied it? I really never said anything like that.

Lets go back and see shall we...

It has huge potential, but literally nobody in mythic raiding that has it is using it properly. Just goes to show even mythic raiders can be ignorant.

With my gear JV does less damage than TV...

What's your point? You know JV is worth 5HP, right? Use your head.

My point is that ability A deals more damage than ability B for the same cost of a global. The only time you would use JV over TV is to stack up crusade stacks and even then it's questionable as you'd be better off using Eye for an Eye in most situations.

I won't stop you from playing badly, seeing as that seems to be your wish. A closed mind will not improve.

So, again, what is this magical knowledge you have about playing "correctly" with the new ring that literally everyone else is missing?

[Deleted]

JV will always be a dps loss to TV, even when weighting it to the faster stacks of Crusade.
That shouldn't even be a discussion.

It all boils down to the class being designed around the use of TV and the synergy with Blade of Wrath. You simply lose way too much damage, and you're supposed to deal that damage to kill things.
The one and only case in which i'd justify JV is right after Wake or with a DV proc, during Crusade. Which is once every 20s at best.

[Deleted]

Well developer team were progressing guldan hc 1 month before tomb release. And they sure create our tools and believe that we work fine.
Peace boys.

[Ryuji]

That sounds about right.

I know Blizzard isn't listening, but i hate the current gearing system. The stats fluctuate so much you have a bag full of gear and countless sims to make to find out what is good. This isn't choice and it isn't fun. It's only complication.

WTB reforging coming back. I think it would help a ton tbh. Back then when hit and expertise was a thing, it was stupid to fiddle with it to keep around the caps needed, but now you could just get rid of the stat you want least and go nuts with your best. Some say it would skew with things but I'm not really seeing it.

[Reith]

WTB reforging coming back. I think it would help a ton tbh. Back then when hit and expertise was a thing, it was stupid to fiddle with it to keep around the caps needed, but now you could just get rid of the stat you want least and go nuts with your best. Some say it would skew with things but I'm not really seeing it.

That's what I want to see, actually. Now that they've removed hit and expertise, they could bring back reforging without people feeling necessarily obligated to reforge all their gear to fit around hit and expertise caps. It could work.

[Dugna]

I know this is probably off topic from the grand conversation atm but did they ever explain why they gutted movement options so much for legion? like was there some blue post or ama that explained why? I just miss pursuit of justice....

[Reith]

I know this is probably off topic from the grand conversation atm but did they ever explain why they gutted movement options so much for legion? like was there some blue post or ama that explained why? I just miss pursuit of justice....

Only explanation I can think of is the diablo 3 team probably thought it was "excessive" or something. I can't find any blue explaining it. Official logic would probably be "we can't balance boss mechanics around that" or some bs, but Warriors have everything they had before with movement. Oh well.

[Deleted]

I know this is probably off topic from the grand conversation atm but did they ever explain why they gutted movement options so much for legion? like was there some blue post or ama that explained why? I just miss pursuit of justice....

it was a class fantasy over game design decision. Since everyone had a sprint it made classes feel not distinctive enough so they removed it for some classed but gave them compensation in some form.
For ret that meant SoV for PvE and Hand of hindrance as anti mobility for PvE.
But since they noticed that this brain fart won´t work out they gave us stead of fails to activate cuz ceiling

[killwithpwr]

I wouldnt have minded them gutting our movement if they kept us semi ranged as we were in wod... Sadly they want us stationary at the boss's ballz, not moving anywhere...

And f*** Avatar...