Cultured Meat

[Zmaniac17]

Thank you for the anecdote from someone I cannot even see.

Are you vegan? Do you have any evidence for your claim? At least I provided an anecdote. You didn't offer anything. You're just claiming something that I have observed to be false in my own life and I don't know any other vegans that "have to eat every two hours". It sounds completely ridiculous to me. In fact the only people I know that eat every two hours are bodybuilders. Please provide some kind of evidence even if it is only a personal anecdote or stop trolling me.

[Dezerte]

Would be great if it could be perfected, for a myriad of reasons probably already mentioned - ethics, economics, environment etc.

[Deleted]

If it tastes like real beef or bacon, I don't really care where it came from, as long as it's not halal.

[Teri]

We don't have the resources to support the amount of animals needed to feed a growing population of ~7.5 billion.

We do if we went globally more efficient, and eat less beef/pork and less sea-caught fish.

Even the Salmon price went up like crazy lately, mass-farms are vulnerable for extreme temperature shifts, both in sea and land, and hot and dry.

Insects are already on the menu outside the western world by at least 2 billion people.

Beef isn't efficient to grow at-all, usually the larger the animal the longer it takes to grow/birth etc.

You have to put a lot of resources in for 1 kg of tenderloin, compared to 1 kg of mealworms.





Yes I am PRO-insect, I don't see a downside when it comes to mass consumption. Of course luxury products/restaurants can still exist.

All those climate campaign dudes can reduce CO2 massively by replacing all those cow fields into forests or wind/solar panel farms or whatever.

[44104]

The ease with which we are able to get nourishment and certain nutrients from meat cannot be compared to veganism. Sure veganism can be healthy for you as a whole, but it requires dedicated time, money, and effort along with taking external supplement pills as a pure vegan diet will simply not provide your body with every essential nutritent, mainly fat-soluble vitamins.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/omn...eficiencies-2/


" more than 60% of these deficiencies are due to food-cobalamin malabsorption syndrome1 caused by gastrointestinal problems. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2294088/

Plenty of plant-based foods are fortified with B-12 (nutritional yeast, yogurt, soy, milks, cereals), just as your meat is. B-12 isn't inherent in meat.
"No fungi, plants, or animals (including humans) are capable of producing vitamin B12. Only bacteria and archaea have the enzymes needed for its synthesis".

It is completely reasonable to supplement; clearly the vitamin and supplement market is not driven by the percentage of the population that is vegan.

[Moralgy]

I would eat meat if it didn't harm animals to get it. That is, given my body can easily deal with a sudden shift back to meat since it has been almost a decade now since any significant meat consumption.(Some assholes decided to put specs of meat in my food a while back and not tell me, yes, on purpose.)

[Techno-Druid]

We do if we went globally more efficient, and eat less beef/pork and less sea-caught fish.

Even the Salmon price went up like crazy lately, mass-farms are vulnerable for extreme temperature shifts, both in sea and land, and hot and dry.

Insects are already on the menu outside the western world by at least 2 billion people.

Beef isn't efficient to grow at-all, usually the larger the animal the longer it takes to grow/birth etc.

You have to put a lot of resources in for 1 kg of tenderloin, compared to 1 kg of mealworms.





Yes I am PRO-insect, I don't see a downside when it comes to mass consumption. Of course luxury products/restaurants can still exist.

All those climate campaign dudes can reduce CO2 massively by replacing all those cow fields into forests or wind/solar panel farms or whatever.

I wouldn't call myself pro-insect, but I see it as a positive thing.

I still firmly believe that cultured meat is a better and more humane alternative to our current system of agriculture. Coupled with vertical farming.

[Aeula]

The animals will need to be culled an neutered. They won't serve much purpose anymore if they're replaced by disgusting lab-grown synth meat.

Either way they die, might as well die with purpose.

[Techno-Druid]

The animals will need to be culled an neutered. They won't serve much purpose anymore if they're replaced by disgusting lab-grown synth meat.

Either way they die, might as well die with purpose.

I don't think they should be forced into extinction. Most of us in the developed world do not use horses or donkeys like we use to, but we don't try to eradicate them.

[Aeula]

I don't think they should be forced into extinction. Most of us in the developed world do not use horses or donkeys like we use to, but we don't try to eradicate them.

Not extinct. But the vast majority would need to be purged. They'd be oddities that a few strange people would keep as pets.

[Techno-Druid]

Not extinct. But the vast majority would need to be purged. They'd be oddities that a few strange people would keep as pets.

Sterilization I can understand, there would need to be a drastic decrease in population first and foremost.

Like I mentioned before, some of the hardy, primitive beef breeds could be released into the European wilderness to "recreate" the "aurochs".

[Stormspark]

Totally fine with lab grown meat, assuming it can be produced on a scale to make it affordable. I'm not paying $50 for a burger. The future will probably be replicated food like Star Trek, but that won't happen in our lifetime. 3D printed food may be though. Imagine taking a collection of proteins and amino acids and "printing" a burger or a steak. That's still some time off, but hey, as long as it tastes like real meat I'm all for it.

[Shadowferal]

actually wanted to quote this , probably messed up cause i was in a hurry, obviously growing meat in a lab would at the very least mean less need to kill animals, which i would say is a good thing

It's getting away from humanity's instincts. And once that does go away then in my opinion humanity should become extinct. It doesn't deserve to be at the top of the food chain.

[Raeph]

I'd eat t.

I'm not much of a meat eater anyway. I do eat meat and don't feel bad about it, but most times I'd rather eat pasta or a salad or some rice dish then something like a burger.

granted I could eat a Cornish hen a day and would be perfectly happy. *shrug*

If someone wanted to grow a "Cornish Hen" on a edible lattice then I would happy roast it and eat it, as long as it tasted the same.

[Thetruth1400]

Do you think it has a future? Do you think it would solve a lot of the controversies we have about the meat industries such as animal cruelty?

And in a future where a majority of meat is grown from cells and most livestock effectively becomes obsolete, what should be the fate of those animals?

If they can make it cheaper and at the same rate as regular food meat and it is safe, then yes. Would it solve controversies, no because people would still claim it came from an animal originally and therefore cruel.

If it did become viable, all the livestock we have would be culled, it's as simple as that. No one is going to keep around those animals when they're essentially worthless. We raise them exclusively for food, and if they aren't food animals we have no reason to keep them around. Sure, there will be some still for that "authentic meat taste" and a few more kept as pets, but you can be damned sure that the majority of the 9.08 Billion chickens, 46 Million turkeys, 39.8 Million cows, 68 Million pigs, and all the other animals kept and raised for food in the US will be killed as soon as it they aren't worth keeping around. They're not suited to the wild either, so they're basically species that would go endangered if not extinct if left to their own.

I'd go so far as to say that the only one of those animals that stand a chance is chickens because we still eat their eggs. Cows are a maybe, but the US only had 9 million milk cows right now, but if we're switching our cow meat, we can easily switch out cows milk too, we already have tons of options.

[Sunseeker]

if it tastes the same and is safe i dont care what i eat

Basically this. I don't really care where my food is grown, as long as it's clean, safe and tasty.

[Deleted]

It's getting away from humanity's instincts. And once that does go away then in my opinion humanity should become extinct. It doesn't deserve to be at the top of the food chain.

then we already should be going extinct a long time ago, cause most people couldn't survive in the wild, least you mean "human instincts mean it's important everyone is willing to slaughter a defensless farm animal".

besides, why not ? the idea behind eating is to get energy to survive, taking in energy while at the same time wasting as little as possible would therefore be ideal (note the term "waste" don't argue on fitness or whatever), if it was possible to clap your hands and then magically have a table full of the most healthy and well tasting food in existence without any negativ side effects then this would be as far removed from any basic lifestyle as possible, but for the sole process of "eating to live" it would be perfect.

not having to waste energy to feed ourselves (and we can't substain humanitys population with a hunting lifestyle/meat production as is is actually incredibly wasteful) is not a sign of weakness, it's the very sign of being at the top.

If you don't have to hunt a deer, but a deer comes to you and kills itself so you can eat it, not to be nice but because it accepts you as it's absolute ruler, would this mean you are weak ?

[Rotted]

I had to look up Quorn. They don't sell it here. Meat substitutes are generally processed junk food. And they are very expensive. If you eat fancy you'll pay fancy prices.

That's a fair point, but as I say now it's a lot cheaper, but as you say its a substitutes, it packs protein which you need, instead of getting it from meat

You don't need to eat that stuff to be vegan or vegetarian. For example, beans and rice are very cheap.

This isn't a stable diet in the slightest and should never make you're main diet. Granted it provides carbs and protein but you need more than that.

Oatmeal and potatoes are like the cheapest things you can buy. Greens are generally cheap as well. When it's off season buy frozen greens so you don't pay through the nose for veggies shipped from half way around the world. If you want a meat substitute learn to prepare tofu properly. The most expensive things I buy are avocados and walnuts, but there's really no replacement for them

.

Not sure what part of the world you're in, but generally buying avocados and walnuts etc. in the same ratio as substitute is generally more expensive. But that's that old argument of currently, for the most part, it's cheaper to eat junk food and shit than a healthy life style

If you get everything organic you'll pay more too. I have a lot of experience with this.

Stay the fuck away from organic, it's terrible,

To address your comment about GMO's, I think most people dislike them not because they contain engineered genes, but because those genes enable crops to be sprayed with massive amounts of pesticides. Most GMO's are used to create pesticide resistant plants. Farmers love that they can increase yield just by dumping pesticide on their crops. That's one of the reasons everyone hates Monsanto.

1) No, people are against GM because it's GM, this has been through fear mongering, lies, misinterpretation of information and through general lack of correct education. Granted, some crops can be altered for tolerance of pesticides, but that no where near the main reason why people don't like GMs.

2) Back to organics, that is the worst for pesticides, it's so environmentally bad it's unreal, I've only just found this out myself. For example, the pesticides they use, are spray on ones which don't 'attach' to the plant, so when it rains, it rinses off into the ground and needs another spray.

As I mentioned earlier, my field and specialization is animals and parasites, so I can't give the best counter arguments bar summaries I've gotten from people who know their subjects inside out.

>It's our natural diet
Just lol. Nice appeal to nature fallacy. I thought we were above these kind of arguments. You understand how ridiculous this argument? By your logic, I can make so many things "right" because it's natural. One of the things we pride ourselves on is separating ourselves from some of our natural instincts, and we call those who don't animals. The truth is, yes we evolved the ability to digest meat, but we can also thrive on a plant-based diet. I mean I could go on and on on why the appeal to nature argument is one of the weakest against vegans, just do the research on why it's such a terrible argument if you care to learn more.

I'm sorry, but did you misunderstand something I said? because being strictly vegi or especially vegan isn't natural. Look at you're teeth in the mirror... (If you're sticking to your guns and say it's not natural, don't bother replying)

You're second sentence is a load of bs, we have conscious, instincts and need. You don't NEED to go out and kill someone because you're instinct is telling you to (as an extreme example), but you do NEED to eat base on your instinct for food. You make absurd direct comments like being above these kinds of argument, you then retreat to the oldest one in the book.

As for evolution for digesting meat, of course evolved to that x amount of time ago that it shouldn't even be relevant in this discussion. To me, that just you clutching to straws. You can literally use that sentence for any argument. "I believe we should all start crawling on all 4 limbs - Yes, we evolved to walk on two legs but we can thrive on all four gradually!" See, it's utterly nonsense for an point to raise.

Usually with my next point, I assume you mean veterinarian, not plant based diet. But with what you've said so far I'm not overly sure... We don't, and never will thrive on a plant based diet. Plants are mostly undigestible material, thus the reason cattle have rumen, or chew the cud. In terms of vegi I'll give you this, it's a better life choice than plant based. From my own experience I'm going to list a few things;

1) Few years ago when I was in Uni, I had a vegi lecturer. She chose to be vegi because of her point of view on animal rights - that's fair enough. She also highlighted that she doesn't have a healthy life style because of it.

2) I know a vegan with hyperthyroidism so his body burns fat faster than it should. He's essentially a skeleton who eats lettuce sandwiches with dozens of different medications a day. If there was an Apocalypse right now, he wouldn't see out the end of the week.

3) I know another one, who has a nut allergy, nothing medically wrong with him, but again, like a dammed skeleton. He get's stupidly little amount of protein inside of him

4) For the shits and giggles the earlier girl I mentioned. She won't touch quorn because she thinks the government has a secret agenda and get the food producer to lace it with milk powder.

5) My all fucking time favorite and it's completely non relevant but I can't help it - Every single vegi and vegan in the UK. Recently we had a new currency note go into circulation, it's made with tallow. Animal fat. There was a shit storm, then a study worked out that for every single note in distribution in the UK. All the fat that was used came from a single half cow carcass. HALF, from a cow that had already been slaughtered for the food chain.

I know one single person who looks healthy as a vegetarian. That's it

First of all, you can't make a hypothetical statement like "what if we all go vegi right now" that will never happen. It will be a gradual process over time and the basic laws of supply and demand will make farms carry less and less livestock, until they eventually "fade out" slowly.

I'll give you that, but I'm also pretty sure if I go back and find my original post I said an extreme hypothetical statement or scenario... Regardless, it's not going to happen. There will never be a point, certainly not in the next 2 decades like someone claimed that we will all be vegi. It's like saying coffee will eventually be gone because everyone will gradually acknowledge we don't need to drink that much caffeine. It's just absurd and frankly, it's not anyone place to dictate what someone can or can't eat. Sure I can sit here and comment you're doing yourself harm and you can sit there saying I'm the devil walking the earth for eating a chicken.

But at the end of the day, our biology is tuned for being omnivores, not pure carnivores, not pure vegis. If we're arguing weather or not we're designed or can thrive being vegis, then you're going to lose every time no matter how blue in the face you turn from arguing. If we're talking about it in terms of animal rights then it's down to what you personally believe.

Stop using words just because they sound impressive. My ethics is just fine as evidenced by it being reflected by virtually every western society. Humans are better than animals. And animals are a resource that is to be farmed and consumed. This isn't ethics, this is reality how it has been for hundreds of millenia and how it's continuing to be for the next hundreds of millenia. Feel free to disagree that's fine. But don't hold your breath if you think that's going to change anyone's mind.

Actually, that is ethics. Going back to what I said earlier ethics are a wide and broad range of thinking. I can't remember exactly what field that way of thinking is called, but it is (obviously a common one), take me for an example, I don't believe humans are better than animals because we have a conscious and / or free will (or not depending on your point of view), but I do believe it's fine to eat an animal, I'd say I'm also grateful to that animal in some ways for supplying the meat.

But I love the fact he slammed you're ethics, then quoted me and completely ignored my break down of ethics I gave!

[Deleted]

Cool idea, i'd love to try it atleast. Hopefully it holds up in taste, flavour, texture etc as other meats and will be affordable, however until it meets those criterias I probably wouldn't buy it regularly compared to actual meat.

[Eazy]

So if I raise a human for the sole purpose of raping them it's fine?

You cannot compare human being to an animal.

Just because something was raised for x purpose does not mean x purpose is ethical.

I kinda agree.

For fuck sakes people are dense, I mean okay you eat meat, but why do you try to justify it with awful arguments like this? Try harder.

I think that "just because I like meat" is a fine argument.

In a couple of decades veganism will be normalized and we look back and think we were barbaric, I can already imagine some of the replies calling me a lunatic but oh well, I can't blame them since it's so ingrained in our culture right now. It is similar to how slavery was culturally accepted back then and now it's considered barbaric, or similar to how the perception of smoking has changed over the past few decades. We'll be forced to do it due to environmental reasons, not to mention the health benefits and of course the ethics.

But we need meat. We are evolutionary accustomed to eat meat. Vegan diet is not sufficient for homo sapiens and that's a fact.

If lab grown meat is a thing then it will of course replace "real" meat, although I could see a niche market opening up for "real" meat.

I fear that too.

But I think that if the lab meat would be as good as normal meat, then I would see no reasons why we should raise animals just to eat them.

Basically this. I don't really care where my food is grown, as long as it's clean, safe and tasty.

That's right.