Low level dungeons ...

[Haywire5714]

Would be nice to play my character in these things and not just chase after the tank for the whole thing.

Buff hp of mobs by a shit ton (400%?)
Increase xp gain from enemies to match current leveling speed.





plz





Edit: I don't want dungeons to be harder, I just want to be able to contribute as a dpser.

[Alvito]

So you get people leveling 5 times in a single run instead of 2 or 3 and they drop and leave group mid run over and over, brilliant.

[Kylista6]

No.


In all seriousness, 99% of the population leveling in this game wants to do it quickly, which is why everyone equips heirloom gear. "Current Leveling Speed" significantly outpaces all old-world content, including dungeons not relevant to the latest expansion. You'd have people out-leveling the instance and dropping because the mobs turn green. That, and people simply don't want to spend an hour in wailing caverns or RFK anymore.

If you want a nice and relaxed, immersive, and enjoyable leveling experience, take off all of your heirloom gear and do quests.

[Chromell]

What you're looking for is the experience of a private server with Vanilla mechanics.

[Wondercrab]

I feel like the best solution would be to apply timewalking scaling to all of the leveling dungeon tune them appropriately so that things don't die in two seconds, and then buff the experience you get from them appropriately. This would stop people from outleveling them too fast, keep them relevant for longer, and maintain their usefulness as a lucrative source of XP.

[MonsieuRoberts]

I feel like the best solution would be to apply timewalking scaling to all of the leveling dungeon tune them appropriately so that things don't die in two seconds, and then buff the experience you get from them appropriately. This would stop people from outleveling them too fast, keep them relevant for longer, and maintain their usefulness as a lucrative source of XP.

But no one wants to be in there in the first place. They want to do the current content, not 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 year old instances.

This is why heirlooms exist and why low level instances are essentially never run more than once and don't take longer than half an hour at the most. It's just fodder at this point, and making it take longer like it used to is counterproductive to the real game people want to play.

This isn't Vanilla or BC, this is John Everyman's 2017 MMO, don't forget.

To the OP: If you want to enjoy a casual leveling experience don't subject yourself to Heirloom-clad power levelers.

[Haywire5714]

No.


In all seriousness, 99% of the population leveling in this game wants to do it quickly, which is why everyone equips heirloom gear. "Current Leveling Speed" significantly outpaces all old-world content, including dungeons not relevant to the latest expansion. You'd have people out-leveling the instance and dropping because the mobs turn green. That, and people simply don't want to spend an hour in wailing caverns or RFK anymore.

If you want a nice and relaxed, immersive, and enjoyable leveling experience, take off all of your heirloom gear and do quests.

99% of people want to level quickly, but I don't think that 99% of people want to que a dungeon and autofollow the tank for the whole thing. And there's nothing wrong with spending an hour inside of a dungeon if you get a shit ton of xp from it so I disagree with both points.

What you're looking for is the experience of a private server with Vanilla mechanics.

I'm not looking for that at all, the experience of a private server consists of shitty slow and boring gameplay, low threat generation and sometimes the use of cc which I do not want.

But no one wants to be in there in the first place. They want to do the current content, not 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 year old instances.

This is why heirlooms exist and why low level instances are essentially never run more than once and don't take longer than half an hour at the most. It's just fodder at this point, and making it take longer like it used to is counterproductive to the real game people want to play.

This isn't Vanilla or BC, this is John Everyman's 2017 MMO, don't forget.

To the OP: If you want to enjoy a casual leveling experience don't subject yourself to Heirloom-clad power levelers.

You don't even need heirlooms to annihilate low level instances that's the problem. Maybe If the mobs survived for more than 2 seconds the power of having heirlooms would actually matter.

And again you apparently think that most people would prefer to plow through these dungeons without having to play their character and I completely disagree. It doesn't matter how long the dungeons have been out for, I still enjoy them (I want to enjoy them rather) and I feel that most players (especially new ones) would enjoy them more if they felt like actual dungeons.

- - - Updated - - -

No.


In all seriousness, 99% of the population leveling in this game wants to do it quickly, which is why everyone equips heirloom gear. "Current Leveling Speed" significantly outpaces all old-world content, including dungeons not relevant to the latest expansion. You'd have people out-leveling the instance and dropping because the mobs turn green. That, and people simply don't want to spend an hour in wailing caverns or RFK anymore.

If you want a nice and relaxed, immersive, and enjoyable leveling experience, take off all of your heirloom gear and do quests.

99% of people want to level quickly, but I don't think that 99% of people want to que a dungeon and autofollow the tank for the whole thing. And there's nothing wrong with spending an hour inside of a dungeon if you get a shit ton of xp from it so I disagree with both points.

What you're looking for is the experience of a private server with Vanilla mechanics.

I'm not looking for that at all, the experience of a private server consists of shitty slow and boring gameplay, low threat generation and sometimes the use of cc which I do not want.

But no one wants to be in there in the first place. They want to do the current content, not 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 year old instances.

This is why heirlooms exist and why low level instances are essentially never run more than once and don't take longer than half an hour at the most. It's just fodder at this point, and making it take longer like it used to is counterproductive to the real game people want to play.

This isn't Vanilla or BC, this is John Everyman's 2017 MMO, don't forget.

To the OP: If you want to enjoy a casual leveling experience don't subject yourself to Heirloom-clad power levelers.

You don't even need heirlooms to annihilate low level instances that's the problem. Maybe If the mobs survived for more than 2 seconds the power of having heirlooms would actually matter.

And again you apparently think that most people would prefer to plow through these dungeons without having to play their character and I completely disagree. It doesn't matter how long the dungeons have been out for, I still enjoy them (I want to enjoy them rather) and I feel that most players (especially new ones) would enjoy them more if they felt like actual dungeons.

So you get people leveling 5 times in a single run instead of 2 or 3 and they drop and leave group mid run over and over, brilliant.

This is actually a good point, however it would only be problematic for the first few dungeons. At around level 25 - 30 you wouldn't be getting 5 levels in a run the xp would have slowed down to a point where that couldn't happen.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

I don't know why low lvl dungeons are even a thing anymore. You can solo them 15-20 lvls below, Asmongold was doing it a few days back.

[Wondercrab]

But no one wants to be in there in the first place. They want to do the current content, not 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 year old instances.

This is why heirlooms exist and why low level instances are essentially never run more than once and don't take longer than half an hour at the most. It's just fodder at this point, and making it take longer like it used to is counterproductive to the real game people want to play.

This isn't Vanilla or BC, this is John Everyman's 2017 MMO, don't forget.

I mean, I respectfully disagree. One of my favourite things about leveling is going back to play a bunch of content that I haven't experienced in a while instead of the stuff I'm routinely running every other week.

[f4ncybear]

Word. Leveling dungeons should come with +20 Fortified. Pressing 2 buttons for an hour is real thrill.

[Marston]

On a more serious note, in order to have low level dungeons that are somewhat challenging you have to nerf heirloom gear. If you actually get a group of new people together, no one who knows the game, they will probably actually have problems. They won't have heirloom gear and therefore won't be so strong. They don't know mechanics and classes in and out and therefore will have problems. Since you can't be sure this won't happen, you can't just buff the mobs. At least not by a large amount. I agree that they need more HP, because even without heirloom gear they die relatively easily with a group of 3-4 people.

However, the main problem is the heirloom gear. Dungeons aren't meant to be played with gear that drops in there or is even better than what drops in there and still prove a challenge. It's no different on max level, but we have no heirlooms there (or at least didn't at release).

What I would propose would be to completely overhaul the heirloom gear. This will piss people off, because no matter what Blizzard would do to adress it, in the end it would come down to a player nerf. Possible solutions I could think off:

- Simply nerf stats, so heirlooms are quite a bit weaker.
- Change heirloom items so that they either provide bonus EXP or bonus stats, so you basically have to choose if you want to breeze through the content or get more EXP. In order to compensate, the bonus EXP could be increased, so that you would get the same amount with 3-4 items that you get now with a full set.
- Make heirlooms loose their extreme bonus stats in dungeons, but only in dungeons (could be done with a fixed itemlevel per dungeon, for example)

In the end, this probably won't fix the problem, but it would be a start. Yet, it would definitly piss people off, especially if it happens now, after years of nothing.

The one other thing would be a sort of Heroic/Mythic leveling mode, which increases rewards (as in, more EXP) but makes dungeons much much harder, so that even a full heirloom group would have at least a slight challenge. The main problem with that would be a split in dungeon queues at low level, and I am not sure that's what Blizzard wants.

[MonsieuRoberts]

I mean, I respectfully disagree. One of my favourite things about leveling is going back to play a bunch of content that I haven't experienced in a while instead of the stuff I'm routinely running every other week.

I'd say that people like you are currently in the minority, which is why they've been so laughably trivial for half a decade.

[Haywire5714]

On a more serious note, in order to have low level dungeons that are somewhat challenging you have to nerf heirloom gear. If you actually get a group of new people together, no one who knows the game, they will probably actually have problems. They won't have heirloom gear and therefore won't be so strong. They don't know mechanics and classes in and out and therefore will have problems. Since you can't be sure this won't happen, you can't just buff the mobs. At least not by a large amount. I agree that they need more HP, because even without heirloom gear they die relatively easily with a group of 3-4 people.

However, the main problem is the heirloom gear. Dungeons aren't meant to be played with gear that drops in there or is even better than what drops in there and still prove a challenge. It's no different on max level, but we have no heirlooms there (or at least didn't at release).

What I would propose would be to completely overhaul the heirloom gear. This will piss people off, because no matter what Blizzard would do to adress it, in the end it would come down to a player nerf. Possible solutions I could think off:

- Simply nerf stats, so heirlooms are quite a bit weaker.
- Change heirloom items so that they either provide bonus EXP or bonus stats, so you basically have to choose if you want to breeze through the content or get more EXP. In order to compensate, the bonus EXP could be increased, so that you would get the same amount with 3-4 items that you get now with a full set.
- Make heirlooms loose their extreme bonus stats in dungeons, but only in dungeons (could be done with a fixed itemlevel per dungeon, for example)

In the end, this probably won't fix the problem, but it would be a start. Yet, it would definitly piss people off, especially if it happens now, after years of nothing.

The one other thing would be a sort of Heroic/Mythic leveling mode, which increases rewards (as in, more EXP) but makes dungeons much much harder, so that even a full heirloom group would have at least a slight challenge. The main problem with that would be a split in dungeon queues at low level, and I am not sure that's what Blizzard wants.

My intention isn't to make low level dungeons somewhat challenging, I just want to buff the health so that the dungeons take longer to complete. This way you'd be able to play your character and feel like you're contributing to the group with your damage. I'm completely fine with tanks being able to chain pull 4 packs of enemies at a time, I think that's actually really fun. But being able to run to the end of the instance without stopping because everything dies in 2 seconds is completely ridiculous.

I kind of agree with your points about heirlooms. When they were implemented if they simply matched the stats of non heirloom gear and only provided an exp bonus that would have been completely fine imo. If they were to do that now it might get some backlash so I'm not sure if that's the way to go.

[lordcanyon]

I believe some old bosses have their health buffed 4x already and even those are burned down quickly.
Our spells have just gotten better and us more powerful overall.
It's not boss health or heirloom problems.

Experience needed per level has already been reduced multiple times and people are out leveling it in 1-3 runs. Increasing Experience would only make that faster.


Wrath lvl 60 Smite
393 damage average

(92.5% of spellpower in Mist)

Legion lvl 60 Smite (260% spellpower)
858 damage in legion greens
1352 damage in legion blues/heirlooms

[bmjclark]

Seems like a good idea to me. Maybe make the dungeons level scale up to like 5 levels or so just so that you don't out level them while you're in there and it'd be fine.

[ItsTiddles]

99% of people want to level quickly, but I don't think that 99% of people want to que a dungeon and autofollow the tank for the whole thing. And there's nothing wrong with spending an hour inside of a dungeon if you get a shit ton of xp from it so I disagree with both points.

If the dungeon is going fast enough where the tank never has to stop, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to spend an hour in the same dungeon unless it's difficult (like high m+). Taking a long time to do a dungeon because everythings health is so high it feels like a group of healers dpsing sounds extremely boring to me.

[Toybox]

If the dungeon is going fast enough where the tank never has to stop, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to spend an hour in the same dungeon unless it's difficult (like high m+). Taking a long time to do a dungeon because everythings health is so high it feels like a group of healers dpsing sounds extremely boring to me.

There's major consequences to this, though.

Currently, there's nothing in the 15-100 dungeoning experience that'll give new players any sort of idea what the end-game is truly like. It's so different to pre 4.0/2.3 that I'm willing to bet I learned more in a single pre 2.3 SFK run than a new player will learn in a dozen dungeons. There's no need to learn to respect your party members, there's no need to respect the role-trinity, and most damningly, there's no way to learn your class.

Despite the increase in resources available, I'd argue that the average skill level of an end-game dungeon/entry level raid player is lower now than it was back in TBC, and a big part of that is the complete lack of a learning curve in the leveling process. Dungeons are, by far, the biggest issue here. Hell, I'm leveling new toons with a friend (we're currently in MoP content), and she can tank MoP dungeons as Arms, cuz every pack dies in <5 seconds. How do you learn a caster class in this environment?

(Yeah as someone who has played for nearly 11 years, it's nice to level fast, and for me, personally, how things are now are the ideal - I just wish there were a way to bring back a better & more rewarding learning curve for new players, as I feel it's damaging both them & those they play with once they hit max level).

[Haywire5714]

If the dungeon is going fast enough where the tank never has to stop, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to spend an hour in the same dungeon unless it's difficult (like high m+). Taking a long time to do a dungeon because everythings health is so high it feels like a group of healers dpsing sounds extremely boring to me.

But you spend an hour in the dungeon regardless because you'll end up queing for it 2 or 3+ times.

[Aggrophobic]

Would be nice to play my character in these things and not just chase after the tank for the whole thing.

Buff hp of mobs by a shit ton (400%?)
Increase xp gain from enemies to match current leveling speed.





plz





Edit: I don't want dungeons to be harder, I just want to be able to contribute as a dpser.

Or you just remove your gear and you get the same effect.
No one would queue for them with the changes you suggest. It would be pointless.

[Haywire5714]

Or you just remove your gear and you get the same effect.
No one would queue for them with the changes you suggest. It would be pointless.

I don't even know how to respond to how wrong (and stupid) both of those points are.