Emily Lance threatened after urinating on US flag on 4 July

[Chrysia]

@Evil Midnight Bomber

no no i totally agree with you on that. 100%. what iam trying to wrap my head around is what feels like abuse of freedom of speech. i understand that it is covered. but truly arent we being extremely inefficient? e.g i feel that now a days if a store refused her service due to her actions, she would cause a total shitstorm over their heads. if someone murders someone we look for things like oh they were just mentally disabled. oh a bomb went off it might be a muslim guy. arent we supposed to refine and look further?

i do not agree at all with the threats or what not. but i do also think there should be some ramification for stuff like this. ignoring it and moving on is definitely the best course of action but it feels like a bandage rather than a solution. but I am open to convincing.

What the fuck do murders and a refusal of service have to do with an idiot peeing on a flag? The actions aren't even related on any level whatsoever.

[Minikin]

What the fuck do murders and a refusal of service have to do with an idiot peeing on a flag? The actions aren't even related on any level whatsoever.

you took it the wrong way man. i mean now a days we simply get to a set level in a scenario we have approached multiple times and end it at that. that is not solving anything just sweeping it under the rug. allow me to explain the examples i gave.

1. i dont live in america but iirc store's arent really allowed to refuse service. now would you say it is encroaching on their rights, because their reason is that she is an unpatriotic person and they would rather not deal with her vs ignoring her and moving along.

2. if someone murders someone, we try to mull it over with mental disabilities without reaching too far into the "well they actually might have been a terrible person", but no one would say that because it offends people.

3. bomb went off, most people would actively believe its a muslim guy (the times square car crash) but thats not always the case.

my whole argument has simply been that, x did y and they are protected by freedom of speech. sure. but consequences have nothing to do with freedom of speech. we cannot monitor and discipline every human being on earth. what we can is do better. and part of that is refining our way of approaching an end solution to this rather than just using rehashed easy to use bandages in every scenario to either explain it or close it.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

@Evil Midnight Bomber

no no i totally agree with you on that. 100%. what iam trying to wrap my head around is what feels like abuse of freedom of speech. i understand that it is covered. but truly arent we being extremely inefficient? e.g i feel that now a days if a store refused her service due to her actions, she would cause a total shitstorm over their heads. if someone murders someone we look for things like oh they were just mentally disabled. oh a bomb went off it might be a muslim guy. arent we supposed to refine and look further?

i do not agree at all with the threats or what not. but i do also think there should be some ramification for stuff like this. ignoring it and moving on is definitely the best course of action but it feels like a bandage rather than a solution. but I am open to convincing.

There will be plenty of social ramifications for her here. As I said, there are plenty of legal ways to let her know exactly what you think of her.

As far as legal ramifications go...no...there should not be any in any country that values free speech. There is no abuse of free speech here. All she's really guilty of is hurting some feelings. And let me be perfectly clear here... I do not defend her actions...I am defending her Right to those actions. Personally, I think what she did is disgusting.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Evelyn Beatrice Hall

[Minikin]

There will be plenty of social ramifications for her here. As I said, there are plenty of legal ways to let her know exactly what you think of her.

As far as legal ramifications go...no...there should not be any in any country that values free speech. There is no abuse of free speech here. All she's really guilty of is hurting some feelings. And let me be perfectly clear here... I do not defend her actions...I am defending her Right to those actions. Personally, I think what she did is disgusting.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Evelyn Beatrice Hall

i guess you are right.

it is unfortunate that the same country she is insulting is the one that provides her with the protection to do so. highly ungrateful.

[Chrysia]

you took it the wrong way man. i mean now a days we simply get to a set level in a scenario we have approached multiple times and end it at that. that is not solving anything just sweeping it under the rug. allow me to explain the examples i gave.

1. i dont live in america but iirc store's arent really allowed to refuse service. now would you say it is encroaching on their rights, because their reason is that she is an unpatriotic person and they would rather not deal with her vs ignoring her and moving along.

2. if someone murders someone, we try to mull it over with mental disabilities without reaching too far into the "well they actually might have been a terrible person", but no one would say that because it offends people.

3. bomb went off, most people would actively believe its a muslim guy (the times square car crash) but thats not always the case.

my whole argument has simply been that, x did y and they are protected by freedom of speech. sure. but consequences have nothing to do with freedom of speech. we cannot monitor and discipline every human being on earth. what we can is do better. and part of that is refining our way of approaching an end solution to this rather than just using rehashed easy to use bandages in every scenario to either explain it or close it.

But this isn't a case of doing that. We aren't "bandaging" anything. She performed a perfectly legal, dumb action. People are responding with completely disproportionate rage.

[Brubear]

It's not an actual flag and doesn't carry the same importance - it's just the pattern. Like, if I was was to wear a tartan bikini, it wouldn't be the same as wearing an actual kilt ensemble. The meaning and history isn't there.

So it only has meaning when it is in a full-on flag shape and no other time? What if it's one of the little, mini flags the size of your palm, does that still carry the same weight and meaning (in other words, if someone burned one of those then no biggy)?

[slime]

Why not? Genuinely curious

Action / reaction. She should be prepared to take peoples reactions for what they are worth, that too comes with freedom of speech. It isn't so much as you can not piss on a flag, you just better be ready for what comes next as you caused it. Her family should be targeted - now she sees how uncomfortable things can be for her. Keep pissing n flags and stay classy, women.

[Moralgy]

Hopefully she never stops getting harassed until she tapes a formal apology.

I hope you never post anything offensive on the internet, because according to this logic, it is okay to send death threats to you until you apologize if it happens.

[Orange Joe]

Action / reaction. She should be prepared to take peoples reactions for what they are worth, that too comes with freedom of speech. It isn't so much as you can not piss on a flag, you just better be ready for what comes next as you caused it. Her family should be targeted - now she sees how uncomfortable things can be for her. Keep pissing n flags and stay classy, women.

So are you ok with people targeting Trumps family when they disagree with him?

[Deleted]

Action / reaction. She should be prepared to take peoples reactions for what they are worth, that too comes with freedom of speech. It isn't so much as you can not piss on a flag, you just better be ready for what comes next as you caused it. Her family should be targeted - now she sees how uncomfortable things can be for her. Keep pissing n flags and stay classy, women.

The action doesn't justify the reaction

[SirBeef]

@Evil Midnight Bomber

no no i totally agree with you on that. 100%. what iam trying to wrap my head around is what feels like abuse of freedom of speech. i understand that it is covered. but truly arent we being extremely inefficient? e.g i feel that now a days if a store refused her service due to her actions, she would cause a total shitstorm over their heads. if someone murders someone we look for things like oh they were just mentally disabled. oh a bomb went off it might be a muslim guy. arent we supposed to refine and look further?

i do not agree at all with the threats or what not. but i do also think there should be some ramification for stuff like this. ignoring it and moving on is definitely the best course of action but it feels like a bandage rather than a solution. but I am open to convincing.

That's the thing. It is not abuse of the First Amendment.

[Sirfailalot]

Probably could have stopped somewhere around shitting on her doorstep every day for the next year or maybe pissing on her front door. Threats of rape and murder are a..WEE bit much people. Still if she hates the country so much maybe she can just move somewhere more agreeable for her.

[melodramocracy]

Attention whoring doesn't always work out as one expects. More news at 11.

[slime]

The action doesn't justify the reaction

See you don't get to decide that. You just prepare for the reaction. People are weird, some react like this or that. Basically if you need it broken down more,
Stay the fuck out of the kitchen if you can't handle the heat.

- - - Updated - - -

So are you ok with people targeting Trumps family when they disagree with him?

Yes, if something he did outraged someone this much - he should' known better and can prepare for the consequences.. although he is president so I guess he gets to get away with more shit than the average joe... or in this case Joette.

[toxicrusader]

Weird thing is to think that the same people who defend the freedom of speech of the Alt Right to be racist, are the ones that would threat someone for desecrating a piece of fabric.

Respect the flag if you wanna, and don't if it suits you more, but don't threat people who don't do the same as you.

[Arthas242]

Weird thing is to think that the same people who defend the freedom of speech of the Alt Right to be racist, are the ones that would threat someone for desecrating a piece of fabric.

Respect the flag if you wanna, and don't if it suits you more, but don't threat people who don't do the same as you.

if i took the rainbow flag and wiped my dirty butt with it and pee on it, i am sure 90% of LGBTQ+9000 would be out for my head...........it;s not a right thing only.....


i mean it's only a piece of fabric with no meaning!

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

What a cunt, I feel bad for her family, I'd be more embarrassed that I was related to that mess than I would be concerned about my welfare, also freedom of speech allows you to say whatever you want, I agree with that and support that, but if you are prepared you defile a symbol that many many millions of people love and revere, then you must be prepared to take hate for doing so.

The issue isn't that she's getting hate..the issue is that the hate has crossed the line into rape and murder threats to her and her family.

Feel free to call her a cunt. I personally feel that what she did was pretty disgusting and I'd have zero problem telling her that. But as bas as she might be...the people that are threatening her and her family are worse.

[Arthas242]

The issue isn't that she's getting hate..the issue is that the hate has crossed the line into rape and murder threats to her and her family.

Feel free to call her a cunt. I personally feel that what she did was pretty disgusting and I'd have zero problem telling her that. But as bas as she might be...the people that are threatening her and her family are worse.

exactly, but this isn't a left or right problem, it's a crazy shitheads on both sides problem who feed each other hate..........

[Z-Man]

Fun Fact: the unenforceable flag code expressly forbade the wearing of flag-themed clothing, as it was seen as disrespectful.

I'd love to see the flag patrol go to a Trumpster rally. Anyone desecrating a flag is ticketed and has their "flag" confiscated and burnt. You'd be be able see that smoke plume two states over.

Bonus points if anyone flying a Confederate battle flag is declared an insurgent and deported.

[toxicrusader]

if i took the rainbow flag and wiped my dirty butt with it and pee on it, i am sure 90% of LGBTQ+9000 would be out for my head...........it;s not a right thing only.....


i mean it's only a piece of fabric with no meaning!

Of course you could do that.

Burn a cross, a bible, whatever. No one is saying you SHOULD, but you still can and shouldn't be threatened by doing so.

And I wasn't saying the flag has no meaning, by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfS6gIpeGvQ

Saw this a few days ago, aparently he is a pastor and thought it would send a message by stepping on the rainbow flag.

The host found it offensive, and asked for him to leave the show. No threats whatsoever.