[Spoilers] Is Xe'ra the ''Light Mother'' the highest being in the Warcraft Universe?

[Lupinemancer]

I hate Xe'ra, really not looking forward to see her again...

She's hardly been in this is game, what can she have possibly done for you to hate her?

[StationaryHawk]

Or perhaps void gods and void lords are interchangeable, and the lore community is confused? I have yet to see Blizzard themselves clarify this.

Void lords are described as being unable to manifest in the physical universe save for short periods of time. If fallen naaru did indeed turn into void lords, they would quickly dissipate.

I don't think Xelnath's tweet should be considered conclusive proof otherwise.

[Aucald]

Or perhaps void gods and void lords are interchangeable, and the lore community is confused? I have yet to see Blizzard themselves clarify this.

Insofar as I'm aware, "Void Gods" spring from darkened Naaru past a certain point - evidenced by M'uru and Saa'ra. I don't think the term is really an official, canon one, per se; it's more what they're called as opposed to a precise taxonomy. Similar to the Void Lords from the Chronicles - they are powerful Void-based entities of which beings like Entropius are just the barest whisper. The Void creatures we see in WoW are just the most common form these sentiences assume in the physical universe, and we classify them based on size and power.

The "Void Lords" that Sargeras is concerned with are the most powerful sentiences within the Void - titantic beings of immense power and evil that, as of yet, are unable to manifest fully in the physical universe. The "Voidlords" and "Voidwalkers" that Warlocks summon, for instance, would be akin to the fingers or fingernails of a true Void Lord, respectively. Similar to beings like Thoglos or Dimensius - they are like the hands of a true Void Lord, still not the entire being made physically manifest. Void Gods have a bit of an in because a Naaru is already a physical being, allowing a bit more of the Void to manifest itself once they fully darken and turn into Void beings.

[AbalDarkwind]

Void lords are described as being unable to manifest in the physical universe save for short periods of time. If fallen naaru did indeed turn into void lords, they would quickly dissipate.

I don't think Xelnath's tweet should be considered conclusive proof otherwise.

Not necessarily. Dimensius, who is almost certainly a Void Lord and a master to the Old Gods, manifested enough to entirely consume K'aresh. I agree about Xelnath's tweet, though; it's interesting evidence, but considering he no longer works for Blizzard, it doesn't hold authority.

Similar to beings like Thoglos or Dimensius - they are like the hands of a true Void Lord, still not the entire being made physically manifest. Void Gods have a bit of an in because a Naaru is already a physical being, allowing a bit more of the Void to manifest itself once they fully darken and turn into Void beings.

But is the sentience behind a Void God a Void Lord? Or are they separate beings entirely? Could the Void Lord known as Dimensius have spawned from a darkened Naaru? Or are the Void Gods a separate class of creature within the Void?

The issue is that Blizzard hasn't given a lot of info on the Void or the Void Lords and how their hierarchy works. Hell, we didn't even know the Old Gods were Void-releated until Chronicle Vol. 1 released; there were theories, of course, but there were just as many theories that they were entirely separate from the Void.

All we have is the info on them from Chronicle, which mostly amounts to some vague references involving Sargeras and a picture and name in the Cosmology artwork. We also have some in-game, possibly unreliable sources about them, including a Dungeon Journal entry for Pandemonius, various TBC quests discussing Dimensius, a brief mention of them by Chromie, and Xal'atath indirectly mentioning them and Dimensius, specifically.

That's just not enough to go by, in my opinion, to conclusively say how Void Gods, Voidwalkers, Voidlords, and Void Lords are all connected, other than being creatures of the Void.

[StationaryHawk]

Not necessarily. Dimensius, who is almost certainly a Void Lord and a master to the Old Gods, manifested enough to entirely consume K'aresh. I agree about Xelnath's tweet, though; it's interesting evidence, but considering he no longer works for Blizzard, it doesn't hold authority.

Xal'atath describes Dimensius as a manifestation that is "the faintest of echos" of the void lords. She affirms in the same statement that the void lords cannot truly pass into the physical universe. I would assume that if naaru are indeed void lords, they would lose the vast majority of themselves to the Void upon their conversion.

However, nothing points towards them being void lords save a single tweet. Everything else states them as void gods, which at this point are a separate entity regardless of how little we know of them.

[Aucald]

But is the sentience behind a Void God a Void Lord? Or are they separate beings entirely? Could the Void Lord known as Dimensius have spawned from a darkened Naaru? Or are the Void Gods a separate class of creature within the Void?

Unknown, I'd think. From Saraka/Saa'ra the Void Gods in the forms as darkened Naaru seem to have personalities that are the inverse of their Naaru personalities - although the Naaru themselves aren't very forthcoming personality-wise, except for perhaps A'dal.

The issue is that Blizzard hasn't given a lot of info on the Void or the Void Lords and how their hierarchy works. Hell, we didn't even know the Old Gods were Void-releated until Chronicle Vol. 1 released; there were theories, of course, but there were just as many theories that they were entirely separate from the Void.

All we have is the info on them from Chronicle, which mostly amounts to some vague references involving Sargeras and a picture and name in the Cosmology artwork. We also have some in-game, possibly unreliable sources about them, including a Dungeon Journal entry for Pandemonius, various TBC quests discussing Dimensius, a brief mention of them by Chromie, and Xal'atath indirectly mentioning them and Dimensius, specifically.

That's just not enough to go by, in my opinion, to conclusively say how Void Gods, Voidwalkers, Voidlords, and Void Lords are all connected, other than being creatures of the Void.

I think Blizzard is keeping the Void Lords close to their proverbial vests in order to preserve their mysterious quality, such as it is. Similar to the Old Gods back in Classic - it wasn't really known what they were, or what their intentions were, they were just mysterious Lovecraftian "things" that seemed to have their origins in Azeroth's primeval times. The connection between the Void Gods, Voidwalkers, and Void Lords is speculation on my part - based on what we know of them, what we know from the "Chronicle" series, and what has been stated in-game. The ultimate truth remains to be seen.

[derpkitteh]

ion hozzikostas confirmed that void lords are even stronger than titans. so there's no way they're fallen naaru.

no naaru, not xe'ra, not a'dal, none of them, have ever shown power anywhere near that of a titan.

[Makorus]

Naaru don't "die".

They become Void entities.

Except Xe'ra clearly dies, as stated by all the NPCs following the not-yet-implemented. They would surely mention if she turned into a Void God.

And it's not like Naaru not being able to die has any evidence anyway, as we had two confirmed dead Naaru this expansion: T'uure and Oros.

Also: "A: Because three cases of this "cycle" have been demonstrated in Nagrand, Auchindoun, and Sunwell Plateau (K'ure, D'ore, and M'uru, respectively), players may have received the wrong impression with regard to the magnitude and rarity of these events: it is EXCEEDINGLY rare for a naaru to fall into a void state, and even rarer for a fallen naaru to be brought back into the Light."

[AbalDarkwind]

I'm much more inclined to believe that the Void Gods are, indeed, separate entities from the Void Lords. In fact, before Xelnath's tweet, I would have taken it as a given. However, even assuming Xelnath was mistaken, it does throw into question what we do know about the Void and its hierarchy, and even throws into question what Blizzard, ultimately, has mapped out for the Void in lore and how often that has changed.

[MrSaggins]

I feel Xe'ra's attitude serves the cause of moral ambiguity. I wouldn't want the pure light to be a perfect, flawless thing. It should be something we can hate, just as Alleria says the void is something we can embrace. Extremism is never cool.

[Gourmandise]

WTF, I also mained a War in Vanilla, Pally in TBC, and DK in WoTLK. Now I mostly play my Monk.

The natural progression of a wise player

[mrsohta]

Xe'ra has moons on her, Elune Light Lord confirmed

[derpkitteh]

Xe'ra has moons on her, Elune Light Lord confirmed

all the naaru have those, it's like their eyes.

i have always thought it suspicious though, that their "eyes" are basically the symbol of elune.

[Deleted]

That explains why she's being such a cocky b*tch all the time.

Cannot say i'm fond of this "development".

[Deleted]

I already said it in the front page thread, but ill say it there too. (SPOILERS BELOW!!!)



So Xe'ra punished Alleria. The perfect being of holy light punished a member of the Army of the Light. She punished her for delving into the void, and here is my theory...

Xe'ra is in fact a void lord, and she punished Alleria, cause if she delved into the void deep enough, she would discover the truth (something like demon hunters seeing demons in disguise). In the spoilers on the front page, there is much talk about a naaru turning into the void, actually too much to be just random event. It looks like she crafted perfect plan. She makes us believe Illidan is THE ONE saviour and needs to be ressurected, so we try hard to do it before Gul'dan injects Sargeras' soul into Illidan's body (and the void lords wouldnt want Sargeras be on Azeroth in any shape or form). So in our eyes, we help save our world, but in fact we just helped the void lords who want Azeroth's sould for themselves.
Then the end of 7.3: we imprison Illidan, Sargeras and the pantheon forever (?), dismantling the legion, and giving the void lords a free pass into the universe. The vision of Illidan being a child of light and shadow was fake (or it could be that he was a puppet of light and shadow, with xe'ra being seemingly of the light, but secretly of the void) and it was all crafted only so that we would help Illidan return, and that he would do what must be done.

There are also several quotes from shadow priests artifact that suggest that the void has plans for Argus:



The machine used to create and revive endless armies of demons?



First enterence on the Argus, or perhaps after defeating the last boss?

Ehem. Good read, buuuut... the Void Naaru talked about in that dialogue is at the Seat of the Triumvirate, which is a Dungeon. The End Boss is a Void Naaru, it dies and it's not Xe'ra.

[purebalance]

In a questline on Argus it is revealed that Xe'ra is the ''Light Mother'' and the Prime Naaru who leads the rest of the Naaru, ''She is the Light, and she cannot fade''. Since Light and Void are the 2 primal factions and the Void Lords are dark Naaru it means Xe'ra is above everyone.

No. You're reading into things too much and claiming revealed I think. Nothing in the actual OP is cited towards this revelation.

Fact being that makes me definitely refute this is the conversation Alleria has about embracing the void and that Xera will "punish her again" which doesn't sound like something a being of light who is all knowing and enlightened would do. Also it further strengthened that Prime Naaru was not a title or meaning progenitor, but rather just part of the original line of them.

So, no, I don't think that Xera is anything other than an old powerful naaru.

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Or he just got confused because dark naaru turn into void gods.

This is bullshit. So somehow you can pick and choose when they get "confused" and other people can't? When it suits you calling the devs confused is ok?

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wrong.
they can die like everything else.
xe'ra, tuu're and o'ros say hi.

becoming a void god is rare, and happens when a naaru starts losing its light.
not its life.

The quotes from 7.3 imply that Xera is not dead unless it is a flashback. Alleria is literally afraid of Xera punishing her for embracing the void again. Xera is clearly of the lawful side of the spectrum to where regardless of where you stand if Xera is actually wrong or right in Xera's mind, it/she/he is right and you WILL adhere to what Xera says or be punished much like the Scarlet Crusade.

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She's hardly been in this is game, what can she have possibly done for you to hate her?

Being in love with Illidan and calling us wrong and evil for cutting down a megalomaniac who was so selfish, reckless, and tyrannical that we needed to take him out?

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Void lords are described as being unable to manifest in the physical universe save for short periods of time. If fallen naaru did indeed turn into void lords, they would quickly dissipate.

I don't think Xelnath's tweet should be considered conclusive proof otherwise.

They would have already manifested. There already was a quote that does indeed link the ethereal homeworld as being destroyed by a void lord which is the same one we killed in netherstorm. Either a) they don't know their own lore as usual, or b) there are stipulations about manifestions

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ion hozzikostas confirmed that void lords are even stronger than titans. so there's no way they're fallen naaru.

no naaru, not xe'ra, not a'dal, none of them, have ever shown power anywhere near that of a titan.

I mean what power have they even shown technically? There really has been little real intervention that I can recall in terms of the naaru. They just sit there looking pretty for the most part until they turn void.

[Cannibalus]

Wow, she must be a great leader, if the other naaru -- that she supposedly rules over -- told us to kill the guy she really didn't want us to kill.

THIS MOTHERFUCKING THIS!!!! Maybe they had "bad signal" when she told the Naaru in Shattrath to NOT kill Illidan, kinda shitty storytelling if u ask me.

[nWoMATT125]

as a demon hunter she was fine and nice to me

[Aquamonkey]

This is bullshit. So somehow you can pick and choose when they get "confused" and other people can't? When it suits you calling the devs confused is ok?

He's a former dev. He hasn't worked at Blizzard since 2012. He has no authority on the matter. You, on the other hand, completely disregard the statements of heads of CDev while they are actively in charge of the story.

[derpkitteh]

I mean what power have they even shown technically? There really has been little real intervention that I can recall in terms of the naaru. They just sit there looking pretty for the most part until they turn void.

k'ara unleashed a holy nova that sank three iron horde ships and killed every orc on them. it took her a very long charge up to do it though.

t'uure unleashed a holy nova that banished a fully empowered dimensius and removed all of his void taint from the world he was devouring.

so, some of them are pretty damn strong. i imagine xe'ra is nothing to play around with. but there's no way she's titan level.