Tomb of Sargeras Progression Thread

[Stay Frosty]

They are in it to be a sub top guild so I guess they keep going but if I were them I would sit back and wait for the nerfs. There is no way in hell they will kill it without big nerfs and by bashing your face against the wall your just burning out your members.

It's not like they're not benefiting from learning the encounter though. I've been watching them an hour or so and they're still making mistakes in P1, which means their members still need time in it to learn the timings of abilities. No reason to not do it now than wait until it's nerfed when you'll have to still learn the timings. As well, Avatar has the benefit that even if you learn one phase you can still learn the rest of the fight despite not being able to down it.

Being able to learn the entirety of an encounter despite not being able to down it is a significant advantage and why so many guilds are still doing it. There's plenty to gain from doing it and I'd say it's hardly going to burn members out in the second week of raiding.

[theyanger]

The difference here is those guilds that overtook them raided more or equally hardcore.

There are no guilds with the usual method/exorsus WF schedules around though, which would change the raiding landscape.
This would be the first step "back" in hardcorness I recall in the WF race. What likely would happen is that some guild would see it as a chance to genuinely compete and up their hours.

Guilds that don't raid as hardcore start raiding more hardcore if they get the playerbase that wants to. It's really simple.

I mean, Midwinter became a staple in the race and they used to raid like standard 5x5 hours a week not very long prior to being in that position.

[satimy]

Didnt method blatantly account share on Blackhand?

[Stay Frosty]

Didnt method blatantly account share on Blackhand?

All the top guilds have at some point.

[celinamuna]

Didnt method blatantly account share on Blackhand?

They even did it this tier /shrug

[TJ]

If method and exorsus quit then simply the guilds below them would rise up and be the best. Same thing that happened when paragon quit and former trash tier guilds became the best.

Yep, I think that the "top" guilds nowadays wouldn't really be in the race if previous top guilds were still involved.

[Sarook]

so does anyone know how are things going at the moment?

Is there a real bug that's stopping progress for the top two or is it that there is just a shit ton of things to soak and everything's very tight?

[Woobels]

Yep, I think that the "top" guilds nowadays wouldn't really be in the race if previous top guilds were still involved.

That's a pretty silly statement.

The raiding scene has gotten so much more hardcore now that a lot of previous top guilds wouldn't last a single tier.

It almost feels like this current style of world first raiding is going to collapse in on itself eventually to me.

[TJ]

That's a pretty silly statement.

The raiding scene has gotten so much more hardcore now that a lot of previous top guilds wouldn't last a single tier.

It almost feels like this current style of world first raiding is going to collapse in on itself eventually to me.

Not at all, I remember when Exorsus were raiding a solid 16-18 hours or so a day (documented in the race for world first documentary) and they were just in the top 10 iirc. Method and Exorsus wouldn't be competing for world first if previous guilds were involved for sure..

[Dangg]

Not at all, I remember when Exorsus were raiding a solid 16-18 hours or so a day (documented in the race for world first documentary) and they were just in the top 10 iirc. Method and Exorsus wouldn't be competing for world first if previous guilds were involved for sure..

All those guild have complete different rosters though right? I don't know much about Exorsus, can anyone clarify?
It's true though that there were much for 24/7 raiding guilds back in WotLK, early Cata.

[Stay Frosty]

Not at all, I remember when Exorsus were raiding a solid 16-18 hours or so a day (documented in the race for world first documentary) and they were just in the top 10 iirc. Method and Exorsus wouldn't be competing for world first if previous guilds were involved for sure..

It's much more about the prep for the raid than the hours put into raiding now.

[TheEaterofSouls]

What's taking them so long to kill Kil'jaeden? Also only 2 guilds have got 8/9. Are the bosses just overtuned? Assuming more guilds quit this tier I have to wonder. Was it this bad in Vanilla/TBC? We're guilds dropping left and right due to nearly impossible bosses?

[HordeFanboy]

What's taking them so long to kill Kil'jaeden? Also only 2 guilds have got 8/9. Are the bosses just overtuned? Assuming more guilds quit this tier I have to wonder. Was it this bad in Vanilla/TBC? We're guilds dropping left and right due to nearly impossible bosses?

KJ is Overtuned. Mathematically impossible.

[Yuyn]

Maybe just went in there to take a screenshot, since there is no way that raid is filled, clearly only 5 people there.

There's a way to skip to Kil'jaden without killing all the previous bosses (you have to have cleared Goroth and Harjatan). It involves falling through a hole in the world and some other stuff, but it's possible to do. Not really going to help kill anything, though it could have let any number of guilds pick up a screenshot like that.

[WhatIsLegion]

What's taking them so long to kill Kil'jaeden? Also only 2 guilds have got 8/9. Are the bosses just overtuned? Assuming more guilds quit this tier I have to wonder. Was it this bad in Vanilla/TBC? We're guilds dropping left and right due to nearly impossible bosses?

It's not hard bosses that are killing guilds, it's all the grind and preparation outside of raids with Legion. Thankfully Blizzard at least recognized part of this with concordance not being as absurd as getting 54 traits was.

But, the endless grind for titanforging and alts taking way more time than ever is the thing killing guilds. That's not even touching the tip of the iceberg with legendaries.

[asd12a1]

Well in Vanilla you had Naxxramas. A raid that took fucking months to be cleared. A raid that took you to STV killing level 37 elementals for hours and hours and hours to get that +5 Frost Resistance gear. A raid that was unable to kill because there was a video cards driver issue with the black holes at Four Horsemen. A raid that broke so many people both mentally and physically it was the most hated thing in the world.

Raiding at the moment is so much easy. Yes, maybe mechanically the bosses might have some better options at the moment. But to prepare for a raid at the moment is a joke. To level up is a joke. To gear up is a joke. Raiding does not require even 5% of the commitment it did in Vanilla. It is impossible to compare the situation now and Vanilla. It is two completely different worlds.

[Stay Frosty]

Well in Vanilla you had Naxxramas. A raid that took fucking months to be cleared. A raid that took you to STV killing level 37 elementals for hours and hours and hours to get that +5 Frost Resistance gear. A raid that was unable to kill because there was a video cards driver issue with the black holes at Four Horsemen. A raid that broke so many people both mentally and physically it was the most hated thing in the world.

Raiding at the moment is so much easy. Yes, maybe mechanically the bosses might have some better options at the moment. But to prepare for a raid at the moment is a joke. To level up is a joke. To gear up is a joke. Raiding does not require even 5% of the commitment it did in Vanilla. It is impossible to compare the situation now and Vanilla. It is two completely different worlds.

That one raid also shouldn't be used to compare to today's because it was the only raid really like that with such a grind. Let's not act like attuning for MC/BWL was as similar... I mean, there's a reason Blizzard purposely remade it for WotLK and it wasn't for nostalgia purposes.

[TJ]

All those guild have complete different rosters though right? I don't know much about Exorsus, can anyone clarify?
It's true though that there were much for 24/7 raiding guilds back in WotLK, early Cata.

Well, I'd imagine Method and Exorsus do yeah, but the other guilds don't even exist anymore.

[jon234]

KJ is Overtuned. Mathematically impossible.

Enough with that mathematically impossible meme its old and has been around forever. KJ is overtuned but not mathematically impossible that's being ignorant. Heroic Lich King 25 man with out the buff was nigh impossible when he became available.

[TJ]

Well in Vanilla you had Naxxramas. A raid that took fucking months to be cleared. A raid that took you to STV killing level 37 elementals for hours and hours and hours to get that +5 Frost Resistance gear. A raid that was unable to kill because there was a video cards driver issue with the black holes at Four Horsemen. A raid that broke so many people both mentally and physically it was the most hated thing in the world.

Raiding at the moment is so much easy. Yes, maybe mechanically the bosses might have some better options at the moment. But to prepare for a raid at the moment is a joke. To level up is a joke. To gear up is a joke. Raiding does not require even 5% of the commitment it did in Vanilla. It is impossible to compare the situation now and Vanilla. It is two completely different worlds.

Yeah that is definitely true, but what you are talking about is only a time investment, it's nothing to do with actual skill or difficulty of raiding/the game. Bosses and tactics are much harder nowadays whereas back in Vanilla it was more about the time invested out of raids to run the old instances and grind the potions and such. Two completely different things.