Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Deleted]

Who argued for Argus to be an expansion? Generally speaking, the consensus around the Lore forums has been that we would always get 1-2 areas to visit a/k/a the Firelands option.

Pretty much everyone in any expansion speculation.

[Syegfryed]

Who argued for Argus to be an expansion? Generally speaking, the consensus around the Lore forums has been that we would always get 1-2 areas to visit a/k/a the Firelands option.

prior patch 7,2 many people tough this was not the final legion expansion, and would be another in argus, cause argus is a planet, huge content, and should get a entire new expansion, so the 7,3 came and is only a 3 zone planet

So its nor hard to think about a expansion with all those islands, if blizzard want to

[Fahrad Wagner]

Because Blizzard has already stated that they'll never do another non-contiguous expansion again (Chilton and Ion have both mentioned this on numerous occasions). Furthermore, Kul Tiras is - within the lore - a part of the Eastern Kingdoms (the Cataclysm nonsense about it shifting out to sea was pure deflection to account for Vashj'ir being in its place), and your suggestion that it shifted/migrated thousands of miles to the southwest is - without question - some of the most nonsensical crap that I've ever heard. Do you have any hints that we're doing anything other than Kul Tiras? No... well... in that case, thanks for playing!

So, lets take a recap:

a) The Chronicles have Kul Tiras situated outside of Baradin Bay.
b) The Cataclysm deflection for Kul Tiras was that it was shifted out to say to make way for Vashj'ir.
c) Tol Barad - a part of Kul Tiras - is off the coast of Gilneas.
d) At the moment, the only hints that we have are: a) a data mined set that includes a map of Kul Tiras coupled with barnacles, tentacles/waves, and a Kul Tiras label that mirrors previous expansion hints, b) Tirasian items from the Legion database of item drops, and c) Tirasian marines in Azsuna, etc.
e) The Naga attacking Azsuna.
f) A random troll in Azsuna from Zandalar (who could have been on his way to Zul'Dare or Zul'Drak).

Now, out of that, you're convinced that the island shifted out to the South Seas, that we're getting Zandalar and Kezan (two areas that are too important to be relegated to minor zones), another disjointed expansion centered around portals, pirates, the Naga Empire, the Black Empire, N'zoth, Nazjatar, etc. Yes, at this point, it's safe to say that the proposed suggestions from some of the posters are tantamount to nonsensical claptrap. Anything else?

If you were bothered enough to read attentively people's opinion in this thread, you would have seen the mention of the potential clues to Zandalar and Kezan we were discussing a few pages back. As for the argument about non-contiguous expansions, the technology used by Blizzard has evolved since, and because they mentioned it was a mistake with Cataclysm doesn't mean it can't be done properly and slightly differently in ANOTHER expansion.

I'm not convinced of anything that's exactly my point. I don't KNOW what the next expansion is going to be, but you however act as if your vision of it was above everyone else's and only you knew the truth. Well guess what, nobody does. We're all speculating, you could be right, I could be right, anyone could be and we won't know for sure until it is announced. If you don't want to admit it and prefer to bathe in your own theories, be my guest, but stop harassing other people in that thread by telling them everything they say is either "nonsensical claptrap" (time to change the disk don't you think, this expression is getting old) or "canonhead/fanfic". In this thread we are speculating about the next expansion being or NOT being an expansion about the south seas and Kul'Tiras. Nobody is wrong, nobody is right, especially not you nor me. Everybody has their opinion on this and as long as nothing has been confirmed by Blizzard, anything written here could end up being right or wrong.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Wowhead Interview - Cataclysm Post Mortem: http://www.wowhead.com/news=201403/c...crawler-street

Scroll down to the, "Q. What didn't work out as planned?" section.

[Dracullus]

Just a small detail I'm concerned about:

The size of the Broken Isles is approximately half of Pandaria, and like 1/4 of Northrend, yet still all of them have had an expansion in that territory. So... is size relative?

Also... didn't Kezan (including Undermine) and the Lost Isles collapse because of the volcanic eruptions?

Yeah, it is relative. I just think they would make it appear bigger if they would plan to make expansion out of this.

Also, from Legion I got impression that they want to tie loose ends in story (like Neptulon for example), so they may want to explore all places that we will know before we will go to space. In my opinion we will have N'zoth expansion in South Seas (ocean is kinda his theme), then some interludium with Scourge/Bolvar/Sylvanas, when they can finally show us area north of Stratholme and finally cosmic Azeroth vs. Void "end of the world" Legion style expac.

I've pointed that out to him earlier already, but keeps on insisting that a south seas expansion pack is "nonsensical claptrap" because the islands can't be linked together, which is a problem a boat/portal/loading screen could easily fix but anyway.

Well this is a problem, but they must solve this at some time anyway. Tel Abim or Plunder Isle isn't for sure material for expac continent and I bet they want show us this in some form or another. They could solve this in few ways:

a) just portals - most lazy solution in my opinion, I didn't like disjoined Cata zones
b) boat - depend how they will execute this, it could be fun mechanic
c) some crazy shit - for example Azshara pull isles together (maybe with exception of Kul Tiras), so it could be fit on one map.

Scale doesn't matter, and the maps can be updated (as they are after every expansion).

They created Chronicles to sort out lore. I bet that from now every time they create new lore, they first check if this is in line with what is in Chronicles.

[In Ogres We Trust]

If you were bothered enough to read attentively people's opinion in this thread, you would have seen the mention of the potential clues to Zandalar and Kezan we were discussing a few pages back. As for the argument about non-contiguous expansions, the technology used by Blizzard has evolved since, and because they mentioned it was a mistake with Cataclysm doesn't mean it can't be done properly and slightly differently in ANOTHER expansion.

I'm not convinced of anything that's exactly my point. I don't KNOW what the next expansion is going to be, but you however act as if your vision of it was above everyone else's and only you knew the truth. Well guess what, nobody does. We're all speculating, you could be right, I could be right, anyone could be and we won't know for sure until it is announced. If you don't want to admit it and prefer to bathe in your own theories, be my guest, but stop harassing other people in that thread by telling them everything they say is either "nonsensical claptrap" (time to change the disk don't you think, this expression is getting old) or "canonhead/fanfic". In this thread we are speculating about the next expansion being or NOT being an expansion about the south seas and Kul'Tiras. Nobody is wrong, nobody is right, especially not you nor me. Everybody has their opinion on this and as long as nothing has been confirmed by Blizzard, anything written here could end up being right or wrong.

So, your proof about Zandalar is a single troll in a cave that's coupled with shaman tier from the latest raid? Gotcha! Do you have anything for Kezan, because I'm not seeing a post that even begins to hint at us going to the island?

[Fahrad Wagner]

Wowhead Interview - Cataclysm Post Mortem: http://www.wowhead.com/news=201403/c...crawler-street

Scroll down to the, "Q. What didn't work out as planned?" section.

Yes, I've read this interview many times, but we apparently don't understand it in the same way. Okay, so let's dissect it once again.

"While zones like Uldum and Deepholm look fantastic, they didn’t fit together as well as we’d have liked. In the planning phases, we didn’t think that having scattered end game zones would be a big deal. It turned out to feel a lot weirder than expected. Players ended up teleporting to nearly every destination, and it gave Cataclysm a disjointed feeling, detracting from that feeling of exploration and discovery. We learned that giving players a land to explore, a sense of place, is valuable. Ultimately, the scattered zones and the portals both served to kind of shrink the world, when we want to make the world a place you want to go out and be in. We’re definitely looking forward to getting back to a continent in Mists. We underestimated how important that was.

In addition, while we liked that each zone has a story, questing ended up being too linear. It didn’t feel like you could fly into a zone, find some quest givers, and explore. Instead, you kind of had to start at the beginning and follow all the quests to the end, and if you didn’t like a quest, well, you had to stick with it to get to the next one. We want zones to have an identity, flavor and a story, but we don’t want to railroad players through a zone either."

So here, Blizzard indeed says that the way Cataclysm zones were scattered was a bad idea. Does it mean they'll never do it? No. It means they'll never do it in the way it was done with Cataclysm. If Islands are linked somehow by smaller Islands in an horizontal layout on the map, it would work just fine. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, I'm saying it could be done without meeting the problems we had with Cataclysm.

Now the other thing they point out was the very linear leveling of Cataclysm. With scaling, this isn't a problem anymore, and it removes one of the problems coming from scattered zones, as you can do them in any order your like anyway.

EDIT:

So, your proof about Zandalar is a single troll in a cave that's coupled with shaman tier from the latest raid? Gotcha! Do you have anything for Kezan, because I'm not seeing a post that even begins to hint at us going to the island?

I talked about two different relics mentioning Zandalar, and a loot from Flotsam boss being named "Kezan Pirate's Mitts". And before you say this is nonsensical claptrap (lmao) remember this is how Suramar was teased, with a simple cloak on a boss.

[Azalar]

a) just portals - most lazy solution in my opinion, I didn't like disjoined Cata zones
b) boat - depend how they will execute this, it could be fun mechanic
c) some crazy shit - for example Azshara pull isles together (maybe with exception of Kul Tiras), so it could be fit on one map.

Portals are okay ONCE you've unlocked the zone and went through it a bit. What's not okay is just freely using portals because reason.

So my choice out of your three options would be b) and then a).

c) is plain nope.

So here, Blizzard indeed says that the way Cataclysm zones were scattered was a bad idea. Does it mean they'll never do it? No. It means they'll never do it in the way it was done with Cataclysm. If Islands are linked somehow by smaller Islands in an horizontal layout on the map, it would work just fine. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, I'm saying it could be done without meeting the problems we had with Cataclysm.

Now the other thing they point out was the very linear leveling of Cataclysm. With scaling, this isn't a problem anymore, and it removes one of the problems coming from scattered zones, as you can do them in any order your like anyway.

Lvl scaling has a few issues regarding storytelling. A lvl progression in zones help storytelling a lot because it's easier to write a cohesive story, but it did not work well with Cata. In Legion we've had a puzzle story. In other words. A main theme that involved the gathering of the 5 Pillars of Creation across 5 different zones.

Cata storytelling was okay, but it was scattered and not very cohesive. The different themes did fit, though.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Yes, I've read this interview many times, but we apparently don't understand it in the same way. Okay, so let's dissect it once again.

"While zones like Uldum and Deepholm look fantastic, they didn’t fit together as well as we’d have liked. In the planning phases, we didn’t think that having scattered end game zones would be a big deal. It turned out to feel a lot weirder than expected. Players ended up teleporting to nearly every destination, and it gave Cataclysm a disjointed feeling, detracting from that feeling of exploration and discovery. We learned that giving players a land to explore, a sense of place, is valuable. Ultimately, the scattered zones and the portals both served to kind of shrink the world, when we want to make the world a place you want to go out and be in. We’re definitely looking forward to getting back to a continent in Mists. We underestimated how important that was.

In addition, while we liked that each zone has a story, questing ended up being too linear. It didn’t feel like you could fly into a zone, find some quest givers, and explore. Instead, you kind of had to start at the beginning and follow all the quests to the end, and if you didn’t like a quest, well, you had to stick with it to get to the next one. We want zones to have an identity, flavor and a story, but we don’t want to railroad players through a zone either."

So here, Blizzard indeed says that the way Cataclysm zones were scattered was a bad idea. Does it mean they'll never do it? No. It means they'll never do it in the way it was done with Cataclysm. If Islands are linked somehow by smaller Islands in an horizontal layout on the map, it would work just fine. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, I'm saying it could be done without meeting the problems we had with Cataclysm.

Now the other thing they point out was the very linear leveling of Cataclysm. With scaling, this isn't a problem anymore, and it removes one of the problems coming from scattered zones, as you can do them in any order your like anyway.

They're repeatedly stated that they don't want disjointed zones in an expansion, so the only way that we're going to get what you want is if it's on the same server, i.e. miles and miles of ocean that's coupled with a few zones here and there. Also, level scaling has nothing to do with questing-on-rails (the level scaling tech. is an excellent addition to the game).

[Fahrad Wagner]

They're repeatedly stated that they don't want disjointed zones in an expansion, so the only way that we're going to get what you want is if it's on the same server, i.e. miles and miles of ocean that's coupled with a few zones here and there.

What if those miles of water are crossable by very fast boats, similar in a way to garrisons, being part of a new game mechanic?

[Azalar]

They're repeatedly stated that they don't want disjointed zones in an expansion, so the only way that we're going to get what you want is if it's on the same server, i.e. miles and miles of ocean that's coupled with a few zones here and there.

What makes a number of zones disjointed is storytelling, not the distance between each other, I believe.

[vertigo12]

South seas, if an expansion at all, seems like a last resort expansion. They'll probably mash nzoth, aszhara and the void Lords together with some pirates. Pretty lackluster if you ask me after we kill Sargeras and free the pantheon and Shit. Literally the only thing left Lorewise is this. And from the mined conversations the void is gonna be in legion aswell.

That said all the signs are there. I mentioned it like half a year ago, the ridiculous amount of underwater mounts obtainable in legion atm when there's nowhere to use them. I figured they would make it into a patch instead. Which is still an option as they also did that for Argus.

Who said we will kill Sargeras already? Who said that once the next exansion is released there is nothing left? You forgot Emerald Dream and the Portals in Azeroth as well as the World trees. How about Shadow Land and the black Empire along with the subterranian Kingdom of Azjol Nerub. Before we get the entire Argus there are still worlds and planets to exlore and covert into the army of Light. Nathreza, Xorroth are a few example. You haven't converted the Burning Legion into the entire Army of Light who will fight with us against the battle with the Old Gods. After them time to hunt the Void Gods in space.

[Fahrad Wagner]

What makes a number of zones disjointed is storytelling, not the distance between each other, I believe.

I second that. If I have to take a boat or a believable transport to switch zones when I'm done questing there to start questing somewhere else, it won't bother me at all, not like using Cataclysm portals bothered me.

[In Ogres We Trust]

What if those miles of water are crossable by very fast boats, similar in a way to garrisons, being part of a new game mechanic?

I give up... if you want to suggest another expansion with multiple portals to islands and/or fast boats then, by all means, do so. In the interim, I'll stick with my belief that the next expansion is on Kul Tiras (coupled with my belief that Zandalar and Kezan will be their own expansion settings).

[Sicarius87]

so the question is new race ?

We're not going to get a new race. Not even a new class.

[In Ogres We Trust]

We're not going to get a new race. Not even a new class.

Playable ogres would make sense for this expansion (the Horde's maritime race).

[Fahrad Wagner]

I give up... if you want to suggest another expansion with multiple portals to islands and/or fast boats then, by all means, do so. In the interim, I'll stick with my belief that the next expansion is on Kul Tiras (coupled with my belief that Zandalar and Kezan will be their own expansion settings).

That's two of us giving up, we'll see what happens in the next few months I guess.

[Syegfryed]

We're not going to get a new race. Not even a new class.

thanks blizzard employer, can you share more knowledge about the new expansion?

[Deleted]

Who said we will kill Sargeras already? Who said that once the next exansion is released there is nothing left? You forgot Emerald Dream and the Portals in Azeroth as well as the World trees. How about Shadow Land and the black Empire along with the subterranian Kingdom of Azjol Nerub. Before we get the entire Argus there are still worlds and planets to exlore and covert into the army of Light. Nathreza, Xorroth are a few example. You haven't converted the Burning Legion into the entire Army of Light who will fight amongst us against the battle with the Old Gods. After them time to hunt the Void Gods in space.

Emerald dream is a raid.
Azeroth portals are all linked to the druid central hub for quick travel.
Azjol nerub was a instance. We killed Anub arak twice. We destroyed the old god they served.
Xorroth is a burning legion world. Burning legion is dead after this xpac.
Void is gonna overtake alleria (see conversations).

[Azalar]

Playable ogres would make sense for this expansion (the Horde's maritime race).

There's never been a better chance to implement playable Ogres than WoD, and I don't think they'll be up for 8.0. They aren't appealing aesthetically nor lore wise really outside Cho'gall or Mar'gok. I think people would treat them like most people treat female dwarves, like a non-serious character. (And I like female dwarves btw :P)