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  1. #281
    Deleted
    Polopollo, the guide covers your questions, but here are some answers that hopefully help

    1. MS "basically" on CD (not always!). Imagine: CS debuff active, but no SD, 1 EP stack, MS ready (This happens when u use CS+AyalaExeProc). Use WW instead in this case to get a CS proc which u will then use with the MS+1EPstack.
    2. Sometimes you get unlucky.
    3. Simply try it out.
    4. For Exe Rota it's simple: You only use MS with 2 stacks of EP and SD up. It doesn't matter whether its above or below "CS if no SD", it works out the same.
    5. Sim it, but generally Rend should be the stronger Single Target spec. raidbots.com
    6. Same usage regardless of 20% or not. Delaying it will obviously reduce your overall DPS, but if you struggle to destroy Maiden's shield then it might be worth the personal sacrifice.
    7. Some use CoF with Ravager, I think?
    8. Sometimes you get unlucky with CS, do the charge thing if low on rage. Other tricks depend on individual Bosses.
    Last edited by mmoc566a9abf7a; 2017-07-07 at 09:10 AM.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Bebbl89 View Post
    Polopollo, the guide covers your questions, but here are some answers that hopefully help

    1. MS "basically" on CD (not always!). Imagine: CS debuff active, but no SD, 1 EP stack, MS ready (This happens when u use CS+AyalaExeProc). Use WW instead in this case to get a CS proc which u will then use with the MS+1EPstack.
    2. Sometimes you get unlucky.
    3. Simply try it out.
    4. It's simple: You only use MS with 2 stacks of EP and SD up. It doesn't matter whether its above or below "CS if no SD", it works out the same.
    5. Sim it, but generally Rend should be the stronger Single Target spec. raidbots.com
    6. Same usage regardless of 20% or not. Delaying it will obviously reduce your overall DPS, but if you struggle to destroy Maiden's shield then it might be worth the personal sacrifice.
    7. Some use CoF with Ravager, I think?
    8. Sometimes you get unlucky with CS, do the charge thing if low on rage. Other tricks depend on individual Bosses.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you contradicted yourself in your own post...

    "... you will then use the MS+1EPstack"

    then

    "It's simple: You only uise MS with 2 stacks of EP and SD up."

    Are you saying that the exception to SD+2EP Mortal Strikes is a scenario where Ayala's got you into SD+1EP?

    Edit: Understood now that I went back and got more context.
    Last edited by Drtydeeds; 2017-07-06 at 08:09 PM.
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  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drtydeeds View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you contradicted yourself in your own post...

    "... you will then use the MS+1EPstack"

    then

    "It's simple: You only uise MS with 2 stacks of EP and SD up."

    Are you saying that the exception to SD+2EP Mortal Strikes is a scenario where Ayala's got you into SD+1EP?
    He didn't. He's just answering 2 different questions.

    1st answer was for the first 80% HP. 2nd answer for the execute phase in the last 20% HP.
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  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiter View Post
    He didn't. He's just answering 2 different questions.

    1st answer was for the first 80% HP. 2nd answer for the execute phase in the last 20% HP.
    Good eye, thanks.

    I went back a reread Belbb's reply, and further than that, the post he was responding to (not quoted).

    All good now.
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  5. #285
    Nearly every top ST parse in mythic is using rend it seems, not trauma...

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Zensunni View Post
    Nearly every top ST parse in mythic is using rend it seems, not trauma...
    Do they all have the new legendary helm as well? Or it doesn't matter than much?

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Polopollo View Post
    Do they all have the new legendary helm as well? Or it doesn't matter than much?
    helm and ring in almost all the logs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zensunni View Post
    Nearly every top ST parse in mythic is using rend it seems, not trauma...
    thats because rend is way better with TM since its your rage dump, instead of WW spam. and TM is a QOL and a dps increase on almost all the fights except the heavy aoe ones like mistress

    fervor just plain sucks on ST, you can get a streak of no CS resets and you lose so much dmg sitting there autoing

  8. #288
    Quick question, is 20% haste while IFTK is active or without?

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Seithan View Post
    Quick question, is 20% haste while IFTK is active or without?
    It's with IFTK active.
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  10. #290
    What iron relic do you get if you run the rend build? Do you all farm the VotW to get the PS iron relic there? If you can't get your hands on one, do you go with the Deathblow one?
    Last edited by Polopollo; 2017-07-08 at 03:50 PM.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Polopollo View Post
    What iron relic do you get if you run the rend build? Do you all farm the VotW to get the PS iron relic there? If you can't get your hands on one, do you go with the Deathblow one?
    all iron relics at ToS sucks, and need lucky to get one PS at VOW, a 930 relic from harjatan isnot bad, trait sucks but ilvl is good

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Polopollo View Post
    What iron relic do you get if you run the rend build? Do you all farm the VotW to get the PS iron relic there? If you can't get your hands on one, do you go with the Deathblow one?
    Skorpyron drops a PS relic as well, so that's another chance for a reasonably high base ilevel relic.
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  13. #293
    What happens with TM talent ? 20% haste or 26%+?

  14. #294
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seithan View Post
    What happens with TM talent ? 20% haste or 26%+?
    The guy literally just told you 5 posts above when you asked the same thing ^^

    You want 20% haste. If you use TM, then you only need 10% more to get to 20%. Apart from that, you want to have some extra due to lag/human error/etc

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Bebbl89 View Post
    The guy literally just told you 5 posts above when you asked the same thing ^^

    You want 20% haste. If you use TM, then you only need 10% more to get to 20%. Apart from that, you want to have some extra due to lag/human error/etc
    That's not TM, that's In for the Kill.

    That said, you want to continue pushing Haste anyway, after Mastery.

  16. #296
    I was using Warbreaker + BC + Bladestorm on adds on KJ until now, but now I want to try Ravager build. I assume that as soon as adds spawn I put ravager and cast warbreaker. But when do I cast BC, right after the warbreaker, or I should wait a bit depending of CS/MS being ready to use? Or I pop BC anyway regardless of CS/MS cooldown?

  17. #297

    Question

    I got, luckily, the new BS helm for my arms spec. I will switch to the rend build but I have an important (simple) question that I cannot find an answer in the arms compendium:

    When to use Ravager over BS?

    I see people saying ravager is better in adds fights? But I cannot picture why? I've read that it does less MS than BS



    I am also looking at the top arms DPS for ToS, and as a new arms lover (thanks no more FR), I would like a little bit of feedback on why each build is better for each fight:

    1. Goroth: I get it, pure ST fight, so OS is the best here
    2. Demonic iquisition: There is no add here, why taking Ravager? Also should I try to maintain Rend on both bosses?
    3. Harjatan: I see people taking Trauma instead of rend, question, do they WW still to apply it to all adds or do they focus adds one by one? I need advice on big adds fights how to deal with them
    4. Misstress: Same thing, I need advice... Here I see a lot of Rend build by looking at the logs, and also OS instead of Ravager, while it is a crazy adds fight, why..?
    5. Sisters of the moon: Why taking OS for just a tiny moment with an add, while the rest of the encounter is pure ST? Also it totally alternate between Ravager and OS. Why?
    6. Desolace host: I see a lot of Trauma+TM+Ravager, is this the same build than a m+?
    7. Maiden: Same thing, somepeople use OS, other Ravager, what is the advantage of Ravager? I'm really lost on this one
    8. Fallen avatar: Same than above, Ravager or OS? Also do you rend the Maiden here and there to try to proc a CS?
    9. KJ: How does it work with Ravager on the adds? You keep BC+Ravager to pop it, but what is the order, Warbreaker then Ravager+BC and then MS and normal rotation on one add?


    Finally, right now I am still fury on m+ (Around 1.30M DPS on average on runs), I will try to get the Colossus Smash legendary pants for arms ASAP then I really want to jump into m+. Is there any advice from experimented Arms warriors? Like what different sets or rotation do you use?
    For instance on my Fury, I have 3 (main) sets that I rotate all the time (I would use more if there were more set space in the UI...):

    1. ST fight, with helm+cape
    2. 2mobs CC-able fight with helm+Sephuz and AOE trinket
    3. Huge aoe packs with Sephuz+WW belt+Active AOE trinket (Windscar Wetstone or glaives) or Terrorbound nexus if less than 30sec till this fight

    I read that the WW belt isn't amazing for m+ VS the Ayala+Pants, but with all these top builds in ToS, I wonder for m+ between FoB and TM? And mostly, what is the rotation exactly for big packs like the DHT one with the 2 druids that pop mushrooms during Bolstering, like should I WW more and less MS?) and when to use BC+BS (on CDs? Should I switch to helm in this case? I'm interested into these details). Also should I swap to my CoF trinket to proc more of them in m+?

    TLR; I need advanced Arms players to give me the why on Ravager VS BS and the implications with the helm. And all the little tips/details/examples for ToS and m+ encounters. I wanna perform really well.

    Thanks for any help!

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Polopollo View Post
    I got, luckily, the new BS helm for my arms spec. I will switch to the rend build but I have an important (simple) question that I cannot find an answer in the arms compendium:

    When to use Ravager over BS?

    I see people saying ravager is better in adds fights? But I cannot picture why? I've read that it does less MS than BS



    I am also looking at the top arms DPS for ToS, and as a new arms lover (thanks no more FR), I would like a little bit of feedback on why each build is better for each fight:

    1. Goroth: I get it, pure ST fight, so OS is the best here
    2. Demonic iquisition: There is no add here, why taking Ravager? Also should I try to maintain Rend on both bosses?
    3. Harjatan: I see people taking Trauma instead of rend, question, do they WW still to apply it to all adds or do they focus adds one by one? I need advice on big adds fights how to deal with them
    4. Misstress: Same thing, I need advice... Here I see a lot of Rend build by looking at the logs, and also OS instead of Ravager, while it is a crazy adds fight, why..?
    5. Sisters of the moon: Why taking OS for just a tiny moment with an add, while the rest of the encounter is pure ST? Also it totally alternate between Ravager and OS. Why?
    6. Desolace host: I see a lot of Trauma+TM+Ravager, is this the same build than a m+?
    7. Maiden: Same thing, somepeople use OS, other Ravager, what is the advantage of Ravager? I'm really lost on this one
    8. Fallen avatar: Same than above, Ravager or OS? Also do you rend the Maiden here and there to try to proc a CS?
    9. KJ: How does it work with Ravager on the adds? You keep BC+Ravager to pop it, but what is the order, Warbreaker then Ravager+BC and then MS and normal rotation on one add?


    Finally, right now I am still fury on m+ (Around 1.30M DPS on average on runs), I will try to get the Colossus Smash legendary pants for arms ASAP then I really want to jump into m+. Is there any advice from experimented Arms warriors? Like what different sets or rotation do you use?
    For instance on my Fury, I have 3 (main) sets that I rotate all the time (I would use more if there were more set space in the UI...):

    1. ST fight, with helm+cape
    2. 2mobs CC-able fight with helm+Sephuz and AOE trinket
    3. Huge aoe packs with Sephuz+WW belt+Active AOE trinket (Windscar Wetstone or glaives) or Terrorbound nexus if less than 30sec till this fight

    I read that the WW belt isn't amazing for m+ VS the Ayala+Pants, but with all these top builds in ToS, I wonder for m+ between FoB and TM? And mostly, what is the rotation exactly for big packs like the DHT one with the 2 druids that pop mushrooms during Bolstering, like should I WW more and less MS?) and when to use BC+BS (on CDs? Should I switch to helm in this case? I'm interested into these details). Also should I swap to my CoF trinket to proc more of them in m+?

    TLR; I need advanced Arms players to give me the why on Ravager VS BS and the implications with the helm. And all the little tips/details/examples for ToS and m+ encounters. I wanna perform really well.

    Thanks for any help!
    TL,DR - Ravanger is better in adds fight not becouse ravanger damage itselft, but becouse with ravanger + cleaved skills during his duration with sweeping strikes is better than BS becouse you dont perform other atacks while you are "bladestorming"

    2. same answer from TL,DR, more Mortal Strikes cleaved with ravanger, or execute cleaves too and in Mythic there is a lot of adds.
    4. The problem with ravanger here is constant movement to avoid things and boss can be moved outside ravanger damage area
    5. even in ST the diference with BS and ravanger is very small and just a few moments when you can take advantage from cleave can be beneficial to Ravanger over OS. It is more to a personal preference here.
    6. Again, a lot of potencial for cleaved damage.
    7. Again, personal preference and shorter CD in ravanger can be better to align with damage buff from orbs with BC
    9. most ppl pre cast ravanger before they spawn, than warbreaker when they spawn and BC + MS for a huge cleaved MS

    about M+ i am too lazy to try to cover the questions, but as a short answer is to practive the positioning to get full benefit from sweeping strikes and with ravanger you should use Cof becouse without him your cooldown in ravanger will be much lower than the CD in BC
    Last edited by orgonutil; 2017-07-10 at 03:34 PM.

  19. #299
    Thanks a lot for all your answers! That helps me a lot to understand, especially the ravager question! Totally make sense that you can cast more cleave during. I'm gonna try to find a good macro for ravager to cast it on my target, that will be easier overall

    I mispelled for the mistress, I wanted to ask why people take SS, as there is only a short amount of time with an add, all the rest of the fight is single target. Does this boos the DPS a lot? (I am asking cuz my raid doesn't always stack the demonic inquisition that much, to know at which point if taking SS is better

    Quote Originally Posted by orgonutil View Post
    about M+ i am too lazy to try to cover the questions, but as a short answer is to practive the positioning to get full benefit from sweeping strikes and with ravanger you should use Cof becouse without him your cooldown in ravanger will be much lower than the CD in BC

    Thanks a lot for this feedback that really helps! I'll try to farm a better CoF than my 890 hopefully. Quick question for adds fights/m+, why the difference between TM and FoB? The compendium just says "(Rend tend to favour TM)" but I really would like to get the "practiced/experience/empirical" answer, as I see that for Desolace they use TM, is it because you can switch CS target more easily? If yes why the recommended m+ build uses FoB? What am I missing?

  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polopollo View Post
    Thanks a lot for all your answers! That helps me a lot to understand, especially the ravager question! Totally make sense that you can cast more cleave during. I'm gonna try to find a good macro for ravager to cast it on my target, that will be easier overall

    I mispelled for the mistress, I wanted to ask why people take SS, as there is only a short amount of time with an add, all the rest of the fight is single target. Does this boos the DPS a lot? (I am asking cuz my raid doesn't always stack the demonic inquisition that much, to know at which point if taking SS is better




    Thanks a lot for this feedback that really helps! I'll try to farm a better CoF than my 890 hopefully. Quick question for adds fights/m+, why the difference between TM and FoB? The compendium just says "(Rend tend to favour TM)" but I really would like to get the "practiced/experience/empirical" answer, as I see that for Desolace they use TM, is it because you can switch CS target more easily? If yes why the recommended m+ build uses FoB? What am I missing?
    Dauntless isn't THAT powerful as it is so adds on mistress are more than enough to bring SS up. You don't need SS to be useful for an entire fight or even most of it to be worth taking. Not sure the exact point in which is becomes better than dauntless though to be honest so I'll avoid pretending like I do. Pretty much any fight with adds in ToS is going to favor SS. Demonic Inquisition...if you stack them at the start is probably worth it but if you don't stack them at all then it's likely not.

    As for CoF, the effect doesn't even scale with ilvl (just the strength) so I wouldn't be too hard press to try and farm a better one. If you get one cool but I wouldn't stress it.

    Rend likely favors TM because not only does make sure that CS has 100% uptime on single target, but it costs 30 rage where as FoB forcing WW usage already gives you rage issues forcing you to charge often and still leaving little rage to keep both Rend up and continuing to WW. On top of that TM actually makes Warbreaker better due to all CS debuffs on the targets lasting longer.

    As for M+...there's really not a set build. Depends on affixes and preference really. I wouldn't get too hung up on a set recommended build. The guide is probably just showing baseline recommendation.
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