M+ Keystone System: New Vs Old

[chronia]

This is not a benefit of the new system (and less reason to do new keystones = less others willing to join). The old keys were there and myself and my group of friends were constantly pushing 20+'s before this change. Now we just do our 15 (equivalent 19) on main and alts.

Why? Because it feels cheapened. We've already had our fun and without the reward it get's boring after a time. The games core is built on character progression and to even suggest it would work without is mad, ergo nerfing the rewards nerfs 'fun'.

I do think its a benefit of the new system though, new system shifts rewards from low key's (for example <10 3 chesting over and over again for AP / item lottery), to running higher and higher key's (seeing AP is alot less valuable and running low key's doesnt have real benefits anymore) for higher base ilvl loot, and more loot the higher you go above 15.

[Wondercrab]

Scaling back the focus on speedrunning as fast as possible was a very welcome change, but the 50% reduction in loot is really awful. The main reason people felt so compelled to speedrun in the first place was that Mythic+ didn't feel particularly rewarding without three chests, and now it feels less rewarding still. Sadly, while the experience of individual Mythic+ dungeons has been improved with these changes, the incentive to run them has simultaneously been curbed.

[Raiju]

I do think its a benefit of the new system though, new system shifts rewards from low key's (for example <10 3 chesting over and over again for AP / item lottery), to running higher and higher key's (seeing AP is alot less valuable and running low key's doesnt have real benefits anymore) for higher base ilvl loot, and more loot the higher you go above 15.

But once again this is incorrect.

We already ran low highest loot giving tier as a default before this change, and before they made AP near irrelevant people pushed higher FOR the AP (particularly the weekly)

Now there's no reason to. To get 6 pieces of loot I need to do a 20 in time, or I could much more comfortably rush 3 15's in time for the same loot and less chance of fucking it up.

[chronia]

I also wonder how many ppl actually feel the 50% loot nerf, as i don't actually know of alot of ppl that were casually 3 chesting 19's all the time (current +15) before the changes, for the bulk of players even completing those key's it were basicly depleting or 1 chesting, in either case you don't loose anything from the system (and even gain if you don't deplete).

Also i don't think M+ was unrewarding at all even before patch, basicly getting 2 pieces of loot of +- heroic ilvl per 5 ppl and being able to run it over and over again was already more rewarding that actually killing heroic bosses that gave what 4-5 pieces of loot per 20 players and 2 pieces when running a 10 man?) per player that basicly means that even in the old system M+ was already double the efficiency of heroic a heroic bosskill even if you only 1 chested, 2-3 chesting skyrocketed that value esp seeing there is no lockout. Now that value is a bit lower because of no 2-3 chesting, but still the base value for a system without lockout per player involved is still way more rewarding in number of items than a Heroic raid boss. which is on a lockout.

But once again this is incorrect.

We already ran low highest loot giving tier as a default before this change, and before they made AP near irrelevant people pushed higher FOR the AP (particularly the weekly)

Now there's no reason to. To get 6 pieces of loot I need to do a 20 in time, or I could much more comfortably rush 3 15's in time for the same loot and less chance of fucking it up.

If you compare 15's with 20's sure atm sure, i can get that, but lets look at 3 chesting 9's (which was basicly the most efficient at the start of the expansion up to 7.2 when AP grinding was still a thing combined with ilvl lottery) which not alot of ppl really had alot of fun with, now running 3 9's compared to one 15, the 15 has vastly more potentional to be more valuable then 3 9's, unless 4 out of the 9 pieces if loot from those 9's TF more than 20 levels each, which is a very low possibility. Which i think is a very good thing, now ofc Blizzard can and should tweak it a bit more so that even higher key's get even more rewarding, i agree to that.

But all in all atleast to me its a huge improvement of the very efficient but mind boggling un fun 3 chest low key meta that was the big thing before Blizzard started working on these changes.

[Raiju]

that's not really a fair comparison. We haven't 3 chested 9's in a long time just since pre-.2.5 10's were so trivial to do anyway you might as well just do the 10. Likewise we're now approaching 930 ilvl and the goal posts move.