We found the reason why the game used to be great. PRESTIGE

[Sinndra]

The fame came in the form of whispers and simply by looking at you. Mostly newbie players and casuals which is the majority of WoW....

Newbies and casuals DID make up most of the game in Vanilla (and casuals continuing to be the majority all the way til now) but that majority of people didn't all stop to check out your armor. Some people did. But I doubt it is nearly as many as you seem to think it was.

Gonna add to it, the lack of websites back then telling people where each item came from. and if there was such a site, not many people knew about it. it was simply easier to ask the person directly.

the same isnt true today, id rather look at a website than to ask any one of the total dickwads in the game. i do not want to give somebody the wrong impression, im not in awe of their snowflakeyness. i dont care what it took to get something, just trying to find the location. websites are abundant with info and ease of access now.

[Deleted]

"The incentive for pursuing things in this game is the same as it always was"

Are you insane?
The game changed so much. Players who were looking for prestige back then, now are left with no incentives.

1) No one cares about what you are wearing anymore because of transmog
2) Raiding is not exclusive anymore

The simplest things can change the mind of people completely.
I can tell you for sure that the main reason why i am not playing WoW right now is because i dont feel special in any kind of way. Power increases MEAN NOTHING and you can do NOTHING with said power increases. No prestige whatsoever.

Power increase is only good if you intend to do Normal > Heroic > Mythic
And who does this? Almost no one.

+1 Why You guys think. That there is such huge bang with compettive games? Like LoL and CS:GO? Do you think that those millions of players play just for fun? No no no no. Those games are popular becouse they have huge incentive for players in ranked play. Where games rewards you with prestige rewards for being good gamer. Those games have what WoW doesnt. Exclusivity.

[Eleccybubb]

+1 Why You guys think. That there is such huge bang with compettive games? Like LoL and CS:GO? Do you think that those millions of players play just for fun? No no no no. Those games are popular becouse they have huge incentive for players in ranked play. Where games rewards you with prestige rewards for being good gamer. Those games have what WoW doesnt. Exclusivity.

I play for fun thanks. Don't speak for me as a League player or act as though you speak for each of the millions playing CS:GO or League. I haven't set foot in ranked at all. I do Normals and ARAMs and the special events when they are up. And as for CS:GO I haven't even touched Competitive.

Also are you really going to sit there and say throughout 13 years WoW doesn't have exclusivity? Because a lot of the no longer obtainable rewards would like to have a word with you along with the current forms of prestige.

[Kyanion]

You are right SOME people looked at you...thought to themselves "i have to raid to get that" and instantly give up. But it's just some of them.

I think it would be fairer to say that MOST people instantly gave up and didn't raid. History proves it by the turnout of raiders in Vanilla. That is part of the reason why things started to change in the game. Not enough people were raiding back then. It sure as fuck wasn't PRESTIGE and SHINY items that got them raiding.

- - - Updated - - -

As of right now, the only thing to look up to someone in awe is "item level"...not cool enough. (for me and i think for more people)

That's just it though, as history as shown looking up to someone is a minor thing. It didn't spur people to go and raid in Vanilla so why are you trying to harp on it being a major thing? You are just trying to assuage your wounded pride or something because you don't have people checking out your gear anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

"The incentive for pursuing things in this game is the same as it always was"

Are you insane?
The game changed so much. Players who were looking for prestige back then, now are left with no incentives.

Yeah you know, those people that magically went up to people in gear, gawked at them and then...DIDN'T go and raid. Go look up some data about raid participation in Vanilla and educate yourself a bit. Prestige didn't mean jack shit to most people. Not that you're using it correctly in the first place..

- - - Updated - - -

1) No one cares about what you are wearing anymore because of transmog
2) Raiding is not exclusive anymore

You mean people can stop looking like mismatched clowns? Thank god for Transmog then.
Yes raiding was so exclusive that most of the population never attempted to do it in Vanilla. Blizzard decided to change things up in TBC and WotLK. TBC raids were quite damn good, people did Kara throughout most of the expansion. The goal was to get the raids into more people's hands to see the content and that has worked.

- - - Updated - - -

I can tell you for sure that the main reason why i am not playing WoW right now is because i dont feel special in any kind of way. Power increases MEAN NOTHING and you can do NOTHING with said power increases. No prestige whatsoever.

Power increase is only good if you intend to do Normal > Heroic > Mythic
And who does this? Almost no one.

Yes we get it. You miss people gawking at you in Vanilla. Those days are long gone and good riddance. I love how you say 'almost no one' raids when the percentage of people that DO raid is higher than it EVER was in Vanilla. You are letting your memories of Vanilla cloud your judgement or perhaps you are one of those ones confused by raid participation on a private server. 12 years ago not that many people raided in Vanilla. It is a fact. Another fact? More people raid now than they did in Vanilla. That's all there is to it.

- - - Updated - - -

+1 Why You guys think. That there is such huge bang with compettive games? Like LoL and CS:GO? Do you think that those millions of players play just for fun? No no no no. Those games are popular becouse they have huge incentive for players in ranked play. Where games rewards you with prestige rewards for being good gamer. Those games have what WoW doesnt. Exclusivity.

You are comparing games of different genres which are built for bursts of fast/short play to an MMO which is meant to be a time investment. What the hell?

[Deleted]

It sure as fuck wasn't PRESTIGE and SHINY items that got them raiding.

How do you know? Because in my eyes that was the exact reason why they raided IF they were superficial people like most of us are. I know i am.
All i want is to look cool and stand out.

Yeah you know, those people that magically went up to people in gear, gawked at them and then...DIDN'T go and raid. Go look up some data about raid participation in Vanilla and educate yourself a bit. Prestige didn't mean jack shit to most people. Not that you're using it correctly in the first place..

I'm not only talking about Vanilla. What about BC and WotlK?

What you are saying is that "people look in admiration at someone else and then give up" most of the times.
That's only true if the challenge is miles away from their skill level/ commitment/ dedication/ availability.

If the Goal is within their grasp THEY WILL SURELY TRY AND DO IT.

In my idea there is rewards in LFR so no excuses, they would try and do it FOR SURE (no proof there but why wouldnt they want to look cool?)

[Kyanion]

How do you know? Because in my eyes that was the exact reason why they raided IF they were superficial people like most of us are. I know i am.
All i want is to look cool and stand out.

Because the number of people that raided in Vanilla was very fucking low....I've said this.
If cool looking items and PRESTIGE as you put it didn't get them raiding then something else did.

I'm happy that you want to look cool and stand out but not everyone plays the game the same way as you. I never cared one bit about some random idiot I didn't know in game and I'm sure that is the case for plenty of people...even moreso today than 12 years ago.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not only talking about Vanilla. What about BC and WotlK?

But you HAVE been mostly talking about Vanilla. The time period where people would run up to check people out and see where they got items was mostly a Vanilla thing. And there are reasons why raiding became more accessible because of changes in TBC and WotLK. You can claim it was due to shiny looking items but raiding didn't do a lot in the 2 years of Vanilla so I don't know why you'd try and argue that.

- - - Updated - - -

What you are saying is that "people look in admiration at someone else and then give up" most of the times.
That's only true if the challenge is miles away from their skill level/ commitment/ dedication/ availability.

If the Goal is within their grasp THEY WILL SURELY TRY AND DO IT.

In my idea there is rewards in LFR so no excuses, they would try and do it FOR SURE (no proof there but why wouldnt they want to look cool?)

What I am saying is that HISTORY shows in Vanilla that wasn't the case. It wasn't always about giving up, raiding required a LOT of time investment, patience for wiping, plenty of farming for money/mats and the ability/desire to WANT to raid. Not everyone wanted to raid in Vanilla. Not everyone wanted to dungeon. Know what happened in Vanilla? Mostly casual people doing what they wanted in the game. Blizz has admitted plenty about raid participation in Vanilla. It was pretty bad.

And sorry your idea for LFR rewards is so bad I don't even want to bother. I know plenty of people have commented on that in this thread so I won't even bother. Not like it matters, no way Blizz would do something so stupid.

[Deleted]

What I am saying is that HISTORY shows in Vanilla that wasn't the case.

What wasn't the case in Vanilla? I don't understand what you are saying.
You saying people didn't raid for prestige and shiny epics in Vanilla?
I inspected people constantly in BC and WotlK. Why is Vanilla so important for the discussion? Most weren't even max level.

But i repeat this:
People only "give up" if the challenge is miles away from their skill level/ commitment/ dedication/ availability.
If the Goal is within their grasp they will surely try and do it

And your refusal for rewards in LFR really brings me down. Why can't they have a epic quest like Normal/Heroic/Mythic raiders?
So if it was you...you would give rewards for everyone and LFR would be left with crap? Fun

[Kyanion]

What wasn't the case in Vanilla? I don't understand what you are saying.

That people were raiding in Vanilla. It was an extreme minority event so even the PRESTIGE of getting shiny/fancy items didn't drive people in droves. What I am saying is that people stopping and gawking at you didn't usually turn around and then decide to go raid. It didn't happen like that. You can't say that shiny items were the reason they suddenly started raiding more in TBC and WotLK. There might be other factors involved. You just assume the only reason is people wanting to gawk at you and go raid and that isn't true.

- - - Updated - - -

And your refusal for rewards in LFR really brings me down. Why can't they have a epic quest like Normal/Heroic/Mythic raiders?
So if it was you...you would give rewards for everyone and LFR would be left with crap? Fun

All that would do is force normal/heroic/mythic raiders to go do LFR with the people who just want to do LFR and nothing else. Why does there need to be a separate 'epic quest' for LFR only? I don't think it would go over very well.

Also I never said to leave LFR people out of the loop. I think LFR people should be able to do any quests that other people do. But I don't make those choices, Blizz does.

[Eleccybubb]

That people were raiding in Vanilla. It was an extreme minority event so even the PRESTIGE of getting shiny/fancy items didn't drive people in droves. What I am saying is that people stopping and gawking at you didn't usually turn around and then decide to go raid. It didn't happen like that. You can't say that shiny items were the reason they suddenly started raiding more in TBC and WotLK. There might be other factors involved. You just assume the only reason is people wanting to gawk at you and go raid and that isn't true.

- - - Updated - - -



All that would do is force normal/heroic/mythic raiders to go do LFR with the people who just want to do LFR and nothing else. Why does there need to be a separate 'epic quest' for LFR only? I don't think it would go over very well.

Also I never said to leave LFR people out of the loop. I think LFR people should be able to do any quests that other people do. But I don't make those choices, Blizz does.

I'm still waiting to hear how an LFR quest that everyone can do is prestigious. Because it sure as hell ain't.

[Kyanion]

I'm still waiting to hear how an LFR quest that everyone can do is prestigious. Because it sure as hell ain't.

Your guess is as good as mine. But that is PRESTIGE we're talking about here.

But I mean what is the end goal. Shadowpunkz has admitted all they really cared about was standing around a capital city having plebs look at them and be in awe. Apparently the awe was so amazing those people would feel the desire to go and raid and be just like them...

[Eleccybubb]

Your guess is as good as mine. But that is PRESTIGE we're talking about here.

But I mean what is the end goal. Shadowpunkz has admitted all they really cared about was standing around a capital city having plebs look at them and be in awe. Apparently the awe was so amazing those people would feel the desire to go and raid and be just like them...

But that isn't prestige either. That's admiration. Or wanting admiration in this case.

[Deleted]

That people were raiding in Vanilla. It was an extreme minority event so even the PRESTIGE of getting shiny/fancy items didn't drive people in droves. What I am saying is that people stopping and gawking at you didn't usually turn around and then decide to go raid. It didn't happen like that.

Because of what i said, "the challenge was miles away from their skill level/ commitment/ dedication/ availability.
But they would still admire or envy someone with those shiny epix.
I'm saying people would decide to do things by "looking at you" but that's very oldschool and only for newbies. Nowadays it would be Google or MMO-C front page research.
They just need to say "i want that", the way they discover "that" is unimportant

But that isn't prestige either. That's admiration. Or wanting admiration in this case.

How many times have you done LFR this expansion?
There is the prestige. Doing it. Over and over and over and over until your eyes bleed.

[Kyanion]

But that isn't prestige either. That's admiration. Or wanting admiration in this case.

Yeah Shadow just wants people to stop and gawk at him/her. That's all this is about. Those days are dead. But PRESTIGE man. Keep saying it and maybe the meaning will magically change!

[Eleccybubb]

Yeah Shadow just wants people to stop and gawk at him/her. That's all this is about. Those days are dead. But PRESTIGE man. Keep saying it and maybe the meaning will magically change!

Prestige did exist. Here are some examples both old and new.

Hand of Adal title, pre 1.3 epic mounts, Old ZG/ZA mounts, AotC and Cutting Edge achievements, Challenge mode appearances and so on.

Hell I would call every Collector's Edition ingame stuff upto Wrath prestigious as well. Especially with how much an unopened Vanilla one is these days.

These are examples of prestige.

Someone wanting to be admired isn't prestige.

[Deleted]

Yeah Shadow just wants people to stop and gawk at him/her. That's all this is about. Those days are dead.

And thats why WoW sucks now

The simplest way of having prestige is gone. Because transmog.

[Kyanion]

Because of what i said, "the challenge was miles away from their skill level/ commitment/ dedication/ availability.
But they would still admire or envy someone with those shiny epix.

A does not equal B. Just because the skill level/commitment/dedication/availability was lacking does NOT mean they would still admire or envy someone with those shiny epix. There is just as much a chance that they'd not give a damn about someone in those shiny epix and go and do their own thing. The disconnect here is that you assume EVERYONE is going to stop and check you out in your epics and then go and decide to be like you or just be envious of what you have.

You'll find in life that most people just don't care about something if it does not involve them. Just because I see someone on the street with a million dollar car and all these amazing things does not mean I want to go and be just like them or be super envious of them or have admiration for them. What it means is I'd just not care and go about what I was doing. It also does not mean I stop and gawk at the car or ask them questions about it. You are trying to project your experiences in Vanilla/TBC and so on to what happened to everyone in your situation. You weren't special.

- - - Updated - - -

Prestige did exist. Here are some examples both old and new.

Hand of Adal title, pre 1.3 epic mounts, Old ZG/ZA mounts, AotC and Cutting Edge achievements, Challenge mode appearances and so on.

Hell I would call every Collector's Edition ingame stuff upto Wrath prestigious as well. Especially with how much an unopened Vanilla one is these days.

These are examples of prestige.

Someone wanting to be admired isn't prestige.

That is true things that have been removed can be big talking points. Also things like Undying in Naxx TBC was removed I think.

[Eleccybubb]

A does not equal B. Just because the skill level/commitment/dedication/availability was lacking does NOT mean they would still admire or envy someone with those shiny epix. There is just as much a chance that they'd not give a damn about someone in those shiny epix and go and do their own thing. The disconnect here is that you assume EVERYONE is going to stop and check you out in your epics and then go and decide to be like you or just be envious of what you have.

You'll find in life that most people just don't care about something if it does not involve them. Just because I see someone on the street with a million dollar car and all these amazing things does not mean I want to go and be just like them or be super envious of them or have admiration for them. What it means is I'd just not care and go about what I was doing. It also does not mean I stop and gawk at the car or ask them questions about it. You are trying to project your experiences in Vanilla/TBC and so on to what happened to everyone in your situation. You weren't special.

- - - Updated - - -



That is true things that have been removed can be big talking points. Also things like Undying in Naxx TBC was removed I think.

I don't think Old Naxx had an Undying did it? Wrath ones were removed though so were the Proto Drakes.

Hell good example of prestige back then was realm first achievements for classes and things such as Death's Demise.

[Kyanion]

And thats why WoW sucks now

The simplest way of having prestige is gone. Because transmog.

And that is all you have to add? WoW sucks now? Because of Transmog? I think you'd be hard pressed to win that type of debate. Transmog is a great thing, for freeing up space, for people that want to change their look. For people that don't want to look like a fucking clown with mismatched items. I've worn the same Transmog since the stuff was introduced and I'll likely stay the same until I'm done with the game. I notice at times when a few of my guildies change up their style often and that is fun for them.

You know what WASN'T fun? Not winning your last tier piece in a raid due to the loot system in your guild or just not having it drop period so you had these stupid items that were REALLY noticeable like shoulders sticking out and totally looking out of place with your set gear. It made you look stupid and you looked even WORSE when a new raid opened up and you started to shift into a new set of gear.

[Eleccybubb]

And that is all you have to add? WoW sucks now? Because of Transmog? I think you'd be hard pressed to win that type of debate. Transmog is a great thing, for freeing up space, for people that want to change their look. For people that don't want to look like a fucking clown with mismatched items. I've worn the same Transmog since the stuff was introduced and I'll likely stay the same until I'm done with the game. I notice at times when a few of my guildies change up their style often and that is fun for them.

You know what WASN'T fun? Not winning your last tier piece in a raid due to the loot system in your guild or just not having it drop period so you had these stupid items that were REALLY noticeable like shoulders sticking out and totally looking out of place with your set gear. It made you look stupid and you looked even WORSE when a new raid opened up and you started to shift into a new set of gear.

It's all the OP has been throwing out a few pages after this thread started.

"WoW is bad because of transmog because I say so" Basically dumping on a highly asked for feature for no real reason.

[Molvonos]

I raided Vanilla, BC and LK.

I didn't give a flying fuck about 'how i looked'. Most people who raided in those three eras didn't give a flying fuck how they looked. Shadowpunkz is a fucking retard who'll keep posting shit like this just to keep rehashing shit, hoping their little echo chamber finally rings true.

If WoW sucks so bad, stop playing it and go find something more up your alley, like Hello Kitty Island.