[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[RsinRC]

Yeah I'd love to see these logs where your double VoiTs are completely throwing off your mindbenders and then you're getting a 20 stack VF after.

You made no sense and if that happens to you I can see why you're stuck with guidelines and how you cant see or would even acknowledge other strategies except cookie cutter specs thats fed to you.

[Kazuchika]

You made no sense and if that happens to you I can see why you're stuck with guidelines and how you cant see or would even acknowledge other strategies except cookie cutter specs thats fed to you.

So you have no logs then?

You tell me to compare logs and give me nothing to compare it with and I'm the one that doesn't make sense?

[qactuar]

So you have no logs then?

You tell me to compare logs and give me nothing to compare it with and I'm the one that doesn't make sense?

You're taking the game way too seriously in comparison to the person you're talking to. I'm gonna go ahead and say that the legendaries you use don't make THAT much of a difference, just to rustle your jimmies even more. Even the folks over at H2P say as much, but feel free to continue acting high and mighty.

[Kazuchika]

You're taking the game way too seriously in comparison to the person you're talking to. I'm gonna go ahead and say that the legendaries you use don't make THAT much of a difference, just to rustle your jimmies even more. Even the folks over at H2P say as much, but feel free to continue acting high and mighty.

It doesn't rustle my jimmies at all. You're the one dragging your group down by making bad choices not mine so in all honestly I couldn't care less. I just think it's pretty amusing when random nobodies think they know better than people who devote ridiculous amounts of time to coming up with all this information and then can't even provide actual evidence of their claims.

[worcester]

Well Mangaza actually makes a big difference in terms of playstyle, and sephuz in terms of raw dps. Prydaz is great for progression. So it's a bit disingenuous to say they don't make a difference, they make a huge difference. Boots can make a difference, but I'm not sure it will be better than just taking raw dps legendaries. And I don't think double torrent in 1 vf cycle is even that good when you are borrowing that from your alnext vf which screws that vf cycle.

[davesignal]

You're taking the game way too seriously in comparison to the person you're talking to. I'm gonna go ahead and say that the legendaries you use don't make THAT much of a difference, just to rustle your jimmies even more. Even the folks over at H2P say as much, but feel free to continue acting high and mighty.

The problem is more that RsinRC has been pushing contrarian strategies for at least a year, maybe longer, and is very stingy with any sort of actual proof. The best we usually get is a referral to his YouTube account, which is pretty devoid of content as well.

Frankly I want to believe the guy, encouraging people to challenge H2P orthodoxy and experiment with new ways of playing is a good thing, but at some point you have to offer up evidence.

[RsinRC]

I like discussions and I like feedback. I put out things that I try and see good results. What i think is a waste of time is people trying to discount things that they themselves wouldnt even bother to try. @davesignal, you know I love yo put out things that others see as taboo but it's only taboo because it isnt what is the current written meta. What's interesting enough is even in h2p they say use the legendaries that are more appropriate for the fight. And I do like to take advantages of setups that push me harder than what a simulation shows because simulations work to give you anaproximate idea of what you going to get but in practice you can cheese, push, get help from a guildie etc to squeeze out even more damage.

Im not trying to say they are wrong at all not even the slightest. I'm simply talking variations in techniqur and usefulness with other possible setups.

[esqi]

How do you guys go with t20 4p and effective use of the 2p buff when you have belt and whatever.

I have all leges for shadow, as bis is belt/sephuz..i find getting flays out wrecks the rotation.

Any tips?

[davesignal]

Don't change your rotation for the 2P.

[esqi]

Its what i was thinking, cause you pretty much get to the point (quickly as well) where its MB/VB/MB/VB without ever flaying.

Just not sure if thats normal.

I suppose the extra MB makes up for the loss of a GCD by flaying for 2 secs to get the buff then hittin mb and delaying VB in the process.

[Jullyx]

Its what i was thinking, cause you pretty much get to the point (quickly as well) where its MB/VB/MB/VB without ever flaying.

Just not sure if thats normal.

I suppose the extra MB makes up for the loss of a GCD by flaying for 2 secs to get the buff then hittin mb and delaying VB in the process.

If you are going for high end logs, the 2p allows you to try to bait some tentacle procs late in void form.
I'd suggest not doing it for most people though.

[Deleted]

As for legendaries, don't forget that beside a dps gain, Sephuz gives you a permanent 10% movement increase( and 70% when it procs) which is really really good on movement fight.

If you are going for high end logs, the 2p allows you to try to bait some tentacle procs late in void form.
I'd suggest not doing it for most people though.

What's the hast percentage necessary to stop casting mf ? I was under the impression that is was only reachable with STM at 60+ stacks. In any case with only two charges of MB, you'll have to cast MF every third or fourth VB, no ?

[Jullyx]

What's the hast percentage necessary to stop casting mf ? I was under the impression that is was only reachable with STM at 60+ stacks. In any case with only two charges of MB, you'll have to cast MF every third or fourth VB, no ?

I'm not talking about going from 2 gcds between void bolts to one.
Im talking about choosing to cast mind flay over mind blast when both are ready in order to bait call to the void procs. Never excessively, but it's something I do when I haven't had procs since 20-25 stacks of current void form.

This is probably not an expected dps increase, but is a tool you can use if you're in for a gamble.

[dmfg]

I'm not talking about going from 2 gcds between void bolts to one.
Im talking about choosing to cast mind flay over mind blast when both are ready in order to bait call to the void procs. Never excessively, but it's something I do when I haven't had procs since 20-25 stacks of current void form.

This is probably not an expected dps increase, but is a tool you can use if you're in for a gamble.

Think CttV is RPPM, so spamming MF won't help you. You might be able to try and game it by refusing to cast MF for 10s before you expect to need it (spam VT instead), but not sure the DPS you gain from a timely proc will outweigh the lost damage.

[Jullyx]

Think CttV is RPPM, so spamming MF won't help you. You might be able to try and game it by refusing to cast MF for 10s before you expect to need it (spam VT instead), but not sure the DPS you gain from a timely proc will outweigh the lost damage.

Yes, it's RPPM. RPPM isn't the same as internal cd. You can get 10 procs in a row if you are lucky with RPPM, but you can't get "lucky" if you don't channel mind flay, which is why I'm calling it a gamble. Also, cttv rppm is based on haste, making baiting it at higher VF stacks exponetially more valuable.

Also, as I said in a previous post, I wouldn't do this if I just got a proc at 40 stacks, at which point the bad luck protection would be too low for me to consider it a good trade off.

[aemaet]

Just simmed myself and my haste weight finally broke 2.0 mark and even versatility has 1.1. God, sometimes I hate this spec.

[Fleckens]

Its what i was thinking, cause you pretty much get to the point (quickly as well) where its MB/VB/MB/VB without ever flaying.

Just not sure if thats normal.

I suppose the extra MB makes up for the loss of a GCD by flaying for 2 secs to get the buff then hittin mb and delaying VB in the process.

Outside of bl you really don't get to a rotation without mf very often, still plenty of time to get a couple of stacks on the 2 piece. But Yeah don't change the rotation based on it.

[esqi]

With the belt, casting MF just delays VB/MB casts. You get the odd chance every 4 or 5 rotations as such. Then you hit the haste point and its not viable really anymore.

Based on feels, i the gains from the extra MB from belt are > than the 2P buff you gain from using MF.

[Fleckens]

With the belt, casting MF just delays VB/MB casts. You get the odd chance every 4 or 5 rotations as such. Then you hit the haste point and its not viable really anymore.

Based on feels, i the gains from the extra MB from belt are > than the 2P buff you gain from using MF.

No you're definitely doing something wrong if you get that few mind flays off, you won't really hit the void bolt 1 global void bolt rotation outside of bloodlust so you should be using mind flay a lot.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

You should always have one MF between each VB, until you reach 140ish% Haste.

If you have the Belt, you can just go VB - MB - MF - repeat, you can do this for 6-7 "rotations" until you have to do a full MF channel for 2 GCDs to let the MB CD recharge (I never counted, but it's something around there).

Only at around 140% Haste do you start doing VB - filler - VB rotations. With Belt, these fillers will mostly be MBs, but you still have to MF once in a while to let the MB CD recharge, even with the Belt and Hero up.