Blizzard killed Mythic+ dungeons.

[antelope591]

Mythic plus still going strong here. Plenty of fun and harder than ever. Last week was tough to get a 15 done, but at no point was it tough to find players. Only need 5. Biggest problem is the keystones but that has been a problem since day 1. Some keys are just dead. Hopefully the cathedral nerf was substantial?

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Idk what game you are playing but if a 930 is 99 percent useless for you it must not be the same one in playing. The items have been gigantic upgrades for me now, replacing 900 pieces in trinket and belt slot. Only thing that might suck is if I get a slot that I use a legendary in but I switch them regularly so not a big deal.

"Literally no reason to do M+ anymore outside the weekly chest."

Sorry to be rude but can you actually read the post next time -_-

[CarlingBlackLabel]

It's okay OP! I just checked and Mythic + dungeons are still there and giving loot. Don't worry yourself.

[kamuimac]

Idk what game you are playing but if a 930 is 99 percent useless for you it must not be the same one in playing. The items have been gigantic upgrades for me now, replacing 900 pieces in trinket and belt slot. Only thing that might suck is if I get a slot that I use a legendary in but I switch them regularly so not a big deal.

the world were people arent complete idiots equpiing piece with shit stats just because its 930.

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Don't kid yourself. You don't need to kill any ToS bosses, let alone mythic to be geared enough for +15. Just get a bit better and you might be able to do it, too.

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oh ye deifnetly - but i need it in order to get into those groups seeing how every semi-decent group with any chance of clearing anything higher then 10 requires already 925 + and in 2-3 weeks will withough a doubt require 930 +

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As a raider, I enjoy m+ now because I don't need to grind them. I can log in do my 15 for the week and go enjoy the rest of the game, not be locked into running the same dungeon I've already cleared 50 times because theres still ap on the table.

as a raider you shoudlnt even be in there as it was not supposed to be aimed at raiders

but thank you very much for proving that blizz did this change to accomodate raiders as they are the only ones happy about this change - like f.... always game got destroyed to accomodate to raiding

[netherflame]

as a raider you shoudlnt even be in there as it was not supposed to be aimed at raiders

but thank you very much for proving that blizz did this change to accomodate raiders as they are the only ones happy about this change - like f.... always game got destroyed to accomodate to raiding

Solution then would be allow raiders to get something out of the orderhall chest for doing raiding activities and not force us into doing M+ to get things out of there.

[Alphatorg]

oh ye deifnetly - but i need it in order to get into those groups seeing how every semi-decent group with any chance of clearing anything higher then 10 requires already 925 + and in 2-3 weeks will withough a doubt require 930 +

You know, since wow is an MMO why don't you socialize and build groups with people you know. It's not Blizzard's fault if people can't get past the group finder tool.

[kamuimac]

You know, since wow is an MMO why don't you socialize and build groups with people you know. It's not Blizzard's fault if people can't get past the group finder tool.

but it is - good devs moderate their games if they see things going into bad toxic behaviour - wow devs simply dont care thats why we end up with shit we end up.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

the world were people arent complete idiots equpiing piece with shit stats just because its 930.

Sure, getting the very BiS combination of 2ndary stats for your spec isn't that common, but neither is getting the two worst. And yeah, even if it's your two worst 2ndary stats, they are still not useless. More Versatility is still more dmg.

A 930 item is going to be an upgrade over anything lower than 910ish 99% of the time (yeah I can throw that number out of my ass aswell). At this point in time, the 930 item from the weekly cache. is very likely going to be an upgrade for most ppl who aren't raiding Mythic ToS, unless you are unlucky enough to get a piece that would break your 4set when equipped (and you don't have any other Tier pieces to swap them with).

[Alphatorg]

but it is - good devs moderate their games if they see things going into bad toxic behaviour - wow devs simply dont care thats why we end up with shit we end up.

They gave you the option to form your own groups from your guild/Flist if you don't like the mindset common in tool-made groups. This "OMG Blizzard sucks because I'm too lazy to use the options they offered me" attitude is pretty silly. The whole idea of MMOs is socializing and teamwork if you don't want to do that then it's not Blizzard's fault.

[Raiju]

Sure, getting the very BiS combination of 2ndary stats for your spec isn't that common, but neither is getting the two worst. And yeah, even if it's your two worst 2ndary stats, they are still not useless. More Versatility is still more dmg.

A 930 item is going to be an upgrade over anything lower than 910ish 99% of the time (yeah I can throw that number out of my ass aswell). At this point in time, the 930 item from the weekly cache. is very likely going to be an upgrade for most ppl who aren't raiding Mythic ToS, unless you are unlucky enough to get a piece that would break your 4set when equipped (and you don't have any other Tier pieces to swap them with).

Between legendaries & tier most people are looking at 6-8 slots they will not replace with a random 930. You're looking at a little over 60% chance on the first cache to get an upgrade, and this obviously gets lower each week.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Between legendaries & tier most people are looking at 6-8 slots they will not replace with a random 930. You're looking at a little over 60% chance on the first cache to get an upgrade, and this obviously gets lower each week.

I figure my odds are 1/3 no upgrade, 1/3 minor upgrade, 1/3 significant upgrade. That's two weeks into the raid tier. Give it another two weeks, and the incentives will be less (other than the fun of running them). That said, they will also get easier with more gear, so I guess it's a wash. The primary loot incentive, for what it's worth, will be bis relics and trinkets that aren't available in the current raid tier.

[Deleted]

Sure, getting the very BiS combination of 2ndary stats for your spec isn't that common, but neither is getting the two worst. And yeah, even if it's your two worst 2ndary stats, they are still not useless. More Versatility is still more dmg.

A 930 item is going to be an upgrade over anything lower than 910ish 99% of the time (yeah I can throw that number out of my ass aswell). At this point in time, the 930 item from the weekly cache. is very likely going to be an upgrade for most ppl who aren't raiding Mythic ToS, unless you are unlucky enough to get a piece that would break your 4set when equipped (and you don't have any other Tier pieces to swap them with).

On necks, rings, trinkets, cloaks, belts, and bracers your statement is wrong. The main stat upgrade is rarely going to be enough to afford going from a bis stat to a shit stat. Then we have tier pieces, unless you have more than 4, you'll need to wait to rotate it in, and then it might not be good enough to compete with tier and other off pieces.

Knowing for my own class, going from bis to shit stats, I'd need around 30 item levels for it to be worth the swap.

[cparle87]

@Marrilaife You don't consider farming for titanforges to be looking for gear upgrades??

[Shakou]

It's cringe-worthy watching people trying to defend the brunt of 7.2.5 mythic + changes. As someone who was pushing up to 15's in 7.0 and has been doing high keys all along and rolling with a lot of people who do that, I can tell you that the majority of highly skilled and ranked m+ players don't want to do shit more than their weekly unless it's a good key that will increase their mythic+ score.

Blizzard really did kill mythic+, the sooner the average m+ player realized this the better. It's just this simple, there is absolutely no incentive at all to run other people's keys unless it involves getting your weekly done or it's a good key you want to complete for leaderboards.

If you're doing it for gear, consider that it is in fact far easier to pug 9/9 h tos right now and the loot is all around better and there's just a much better chance of getting some of that loot.

[Jimson]

It's cringe-worthy watching people trying to defend the brunt of 7.2.5 mythic + changes. As someone who was pushing up to 15's in 7.0 and has been doing high keys all along and rolling with a lot of people who do that, I can tell you that the majority of highly skilled and ranked m+ players don't want to do shit more than their weekly unless it's a good key that will increase their mythic+ score.

Blizzard really did kill mythic+, the sooner the average m+ player realized this the better. It's just this simple, there is absolutely no incentive at all to run other people's keys unless it involves getting your weekly done or it's a good key you want to complete for leaderboards.

If you're doing it for gear, consider that it is in fact far easier to pug 9/9 h tos right now and the loot is all around better and there's just a much better chance of getting some of that loot.

Or maybe some people simply enjoy running M+? There's a lot of people playing the game. And if you think it's "easier" to pug a 9/9 H ToS... if you're easily getting into a 9/9 H ToS group, the only way you'd ever benefit from a M+ new or old system is from the weekly chest. The M+ changes were made not for the people who want to push keys to >20 but for the people who exist in the <10 range.

[Ravenzedd]

It's cringe-worthy watching people trying to defend the brunt of 7.2.5 mythic + changes. As someone who was pushing up to 15's in 7.0 and has been doing high keys all along and rolling with a lot of people who do that, I can tell you that the majority of highly skilled and ranked m+ players don't want to do shit more than their weekly unless it's a good key that will increase their mythic+ score.

Blizzard really did kill mythic+, the sooner the average m+ player realized this the better. It's just this simple, there is absolutely no incentive at all to run other people's keys unless it involves getting your weekly done or it's a good key you want to complete for leaderboards.

If you're doing it for gear, consider that it is in fact far easier to pug 9/9 h tos right now and the loot is all around better and there's just a much better chance of getting some of that loot.

It's almost as if ToS Heroic has a weekly lockout and m+ doesn't :thinking:

[Shakou]

It's almost as if ToS Heroic has a weekly lockout and m+ doesn't :thinking:

Ya like that's a really great point when hardly more than maybe 2-3% of the player base can complete +15 keys right now and the gear that drops from them is baseline 910 anyways.

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Or maybe some people simply enjoy running M+? There's a lot of people playing the game. And if you think it's "easier" to pug a 9/9 H ToS... if you're easily getting into a 9/9 H ToS group, the only way you'd ever benefit from a M+ new or old system is from the weekly chest. The M+ changes were made not for the people who want to push keys to >20 but for the people who exist in the <10 range.

Yes obviously people who suck at mythic+ enjoy running keys better than people than can do the highest lvl keys anyone has done in 7.2.5. Of course!

Maybe you should stop replying.

[kamuimac]

Or maybe some people simply enjoy running M+? There's a lot of people playing the game. And if you think it's "easier" to pug a 9/9 H ToS... if you're easily getting into a 9/9 H ToS group, the only way you'd ever benefit from a M+ new or old system is from the weekly chest. The M+ changes were made not for the people who want to push keys to >20 but for the people who exist in the <10 range.

9/9 HC definetly not - but 6-7/9 HC definetly yes - you can clear with realitive ease with +/- 910 itlv coordinated on discord pug - you cant clear mythic 15 + with same ease with only 910 itlv people unless they are those people who cleared 1000 + dungeons on mains and now are gearing alts though there . and anything below mythic 15 why bother when you can super easy clear 9/9 normal ToS.

give it couple of weeks when pugs will all learn mechanics in ToS and mythic will be completly deserted besides people clearing 12-13+ keys for weekly cache while demanding 930 itlv people for easy clears.

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It's almost as if ToS Heroic has a weekly lockout and m+ doesn't :thinking:

pushing you key from 10-15 will take you around 3 hours - clearing 7/9 HC ToS will take you very similiar time if not less closer to 2 hours if you have good group - i admit there may be some unemploeyd people there who spend whole day playingbut average player wont put more then 5-6 hours a week into alt because he simply doesnt have time so argument of no lockout if flawed.

so what if there is no lockout if only 1 % of most hardcore unemploeyd neckbeared can utilize it.

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@Marrilaife You don't consider farming for titanforges to be looking for gear upgrades??

do you consider playing lotto as viable job ? i bet you do -_-

[Jimson]

Yes obviously people who suck at mythic+ enjoy running keys better than people than can do the highest lvl keys anyone has done in 7.2.5. Of course!

Maybe you should stop replying.

TIL that unless you're at the absolute peak of performance, you can't possibly enjoy something as much as people who are better than you. Now I'm going to go forget that I learned that because it's fucking stupid.

[Marrilaife]

@Marrilaife You don't consider farming for titanforges to be looking for gear upgrades??

Titanforge was supposed to be a cool bonus not "the only version of the item that is actually worth something", when you need 920+ to farm place that drops 910 loot because "maybe one in 10 will titanforge and maybe that titanforge will be useful for the person it dropped for" (there are always items that aren't good even as ilvl upgrade, like relics with bad traits, crappy trinkets like EOA pearl, items in slots you use a legendary) then it's diluting the feeling of getting loot (because 90% of drops is not loot it's trash because you already outgear it) and piling an extra rng layer on top of it, sometimes to the point it feels more like gambling than actually farming because the chance of getting something good is like the chance of winning in casino.

Yes, you can "look for upgrades" farming Withered Jim in hopes Arcano will titanforge 50+ ilvls but there's a thin line between hope and folly.

The whole system is designed to make you either give up or farm to the brink of burnout. I know a guy who said it took him over 700 maw runs to find a memento at the ilvl that satisfied him (first the dungeon needs to drop and item, then it needs to be the correct item, then it needs to titanforge enough ilvls and then it needs to drop for you or for a person willing to trade with enough high ilvl in that slot trade is possible). Guess what, now we have another tier, ilvl went up, he'd have to farm that memento again at a new "satisfactory" level, but I think he burnt out and stopped.

If you're a person who plays the lottery thinking one day you're gonna hit the jackpot and be filthy rich, then titanforge system is for you. But with lottery the truth is 99% of the participants waste their time and money and among the 1% who wins majority win low, only tiny minority of that 1% hits the jackpot.

[Deleted]

It's cringe-worthy watching people trying to defend the brunt of 7.2.5 mythic + changes. As someone who was pushing up to 15's in 7.0 and has been doing high keys all along and rolling with a lot of people who do that, I can tell you that the majority of highly skilled and ranked m+ players don't want to do shit more than their weekly unless it's a good key that will increase their mythic+ score.

Blizzard really did kill mythic+, the sooner the average m+ player realized this the better. It's just this simple, there is absolutely no incentive at all to run other people's keys unless it involves getting your weekly done or it's a good key you want to complete for leaderboards.

If you're doing it for gear, consider that it is in fact far easier to pug 9/9 h tos right now and the loot is all around better and there's just a much better chance of getting some of that loot.

I don't understand why you all are still fighting for this topic. I mean, it's kinda clear why Blizzard did this. M+ were too profitable. Way too much. It's a fact. Being this good or bad it's just opinion.

Yes, we all know that Blizzard said:" We will give people alternative progression roads". They did. But when they found out that M+ were almost more profitable then raids (even Mythic), the unleashed the nerf.

Easy as that. Alternative does not mean equal, or even worse, better. M+ right now are just what they shuold have been from the start.

That said, i think that they shuold make some kind of reward (cosmetic like the old CM) for people who really love to push high key. That shuold be a nice incentive.