LGBT representation

[tikcol]

Lol, no its not - kids shouldnt grow up being forced to be vegan. stop spreading your sjw bs.

WoW is a VIRTUAL FANTASY game. No need to put the real world in there you lil sjw.

No you are either male or female. You can CLAIM to identify as an apache helicopter but the truth is your still just male or female.

I've seen plenty of people in the internet that claim and seem very convincing when they say they're female while possessing a penis. This isn't the topic though.

As long as they don't try to convince me, I'm ok with it. They're free to do what they like, aren't they?

[SirMeo]

My point is I wouldn't mind seeing lgbt characters, but I don't see it as a strict necessity like the OP seems to do. If OP said he'd like to see more lgbt because it would add to the story, that would be fine. But he calls in question liberal societies, assuming that Blizzard is against lgbt, and moving them accusation, which stems a whole different series of comments and reactions (as it has).

OH yeah, OP is a can of worms I don't want to touch, but the general "no one says they're hetero" is a bit false, because if a gay character would yell "FOR (my same-gender lover name here)!" as a war cry many people (not necessarily you, but you know some of the posters from this thread definitely) go "ugh why does he need to tell he's gay to everyone no one does that... ONE DIMENSIONAL CHARACTER..." ... and meanwhile many, many characters in straight relationships do something similar, but pretty much no one considers them to be flaunting their heterosexuality.

It's completely reasonable to be worried about poorly written LGBT characters because holy heck am I ever, but I never know if people actually care about that or if they just have double standards.

I hope what I wrote makes sense, I'm feeling a bit word-blocked right now :V

(of course I don't really consider any of the major lore characters in WoW to be particularly well-written anyway, so I'm talking about relative well-writtenness here)

[tikcol]

So what? It's bad business to make content for only 2% of the population.

Besides, there are those lesbian night elves in Dragonblight.

Actually, it's around 10%.

[Insofin]

See I just fundamentally disagree, because I don't reject any information that helps shape a well rounded character. Anduin's left handed? Cool. Anduin likes men? Cool. Anduin enjoys horse riding? Cool. Things and information that help shape Anduin into a fully fleshed character, someone who is believable as a person. That's good story telling.

Focusing too heavily on the 'War' leads to one dimensional characters, like what Garrosh ended up being. Frankly, that's not interesting. There's no reason you can't have excellent plots and indepth characters within games.

I agree with you when it comes to character development. But the core of World of Warcraft is WAR, not Anduin's social status, Velen's tastes or whatever character you want to put in here. Therefore, going "Anduin is gay" without any kind of proper background to introduce it, is just counterproductive. If you change your focus from war to "character's development", then yes. Sexual orientation is welcome. But at the same time, it won't be world of warcraft anymore.

Let's have a look at Final Fantasy, for example. Final fantasy is a series of JRPGs. These games focus on telling a story about their characters. In that stories they intentionally leave space for talking about love, worries, problems... Dealing with all those hard topics is called for. Because the game's story is always designed for it.
However, let's have a look at another series: Diablo. In diablo's story, you'll see that it's not designed to talk about love or romance. Therefore, making Deckard Cain gay or straight has no value.

There are games which have room to talk about love, romance and represent different sexual orientations, but WoW, right now, is not one of them.

[Lochton]

Great arguments you brought us. Thanks for your contribution. I agree with 90% of them.


I can't agree with the Overwatch this, Overwatch that. Overwatch is a great game. The only backlash it ever only received was about Tracer and her ass and sexuality

Overwatch added what you basically is talking about.

[Deleted]

That's missing the point entirely. Garrosh, as a character, become quite one dimensional. We as players only really see the war hungry side of him from MoP onwards, which reduces his depth and how believable he is as a person.

We also see him consumed by cult of strength, going full racist, turn against leaders of other Horde races when they dare question him about pretty much anything. We see him accepting an inherently corrupting power in a 180 from his previous beliefs and resolve not to follow his da into a trap of promises and so on. While war is deffo no.1 on his mind, there is more. Anduin already has his pacifism, tolerance, light-worship, studiousness, awareness of the size of the throne he got sat on and the need to mourn a father when he can't really afford it. That's quite a bit to go already.

[Lochton]

So, about the poll... more lesbian night elves? I'm perfectly fine with that. Lesbian tauren? Euuughghghh... no ty.

Pfff, racist, get some tail on! Haha. And yeah, the poll could be a little more than just yes/no, but alas, it is a fragile topic.

[SirMeo]

I agree with you when it comes to character development. But the core of World of Warcraft is WAR, not Anduin's social status, Velen's tastes or whatever character you want to put in here. Therefore, going "Anduin is gay" without any kind of proper background to introduce it, is just counterproductive. If you change your focus from war to "character's development", then yes. Sexual orientation is welcome. But at the same time, it won't be world of warcraft anymore.

What kind of a proper background would you want, then?

Romance/romantic feelings form a big deal for character motivation for many characters, so saying it's only WAR is a bit misleading?

[Deleted]

So, about the poll... more lesbian night elves? I'm perfectly fine with that. Lesbian tauren? Euuughghghh... no ty.

Why? Ponykins and zoophiles clearly need representation too, no? Also, if you are bored enough, you can go to tumblr and find SJWs fighting for the rights of agekins, but thankfully these are still outlawed in most of the West.

[infinit]

all the comics and movies that forced diversity have failed

[Matchu]

Therefore, going "Anduin is gay" without any kind of proper background to introduce it, is just counterproductive. If you change your focus from war to "character's development", then yes. Sexual orientation is welcome. But at the same time, it won't be world of warcraft anymore.

Yeah, sure, but you can't have both "one-off lines are irreverent" and "longer indepth story is irrelevant" when it comes to details like this. It blocks writers into a corner, do they write longer, more plotted stories that some players will reject as useless or go with a more throw away type line that some will say isn't enough? I don't just mean sexuality, I mean any revelation about a character. If you want it to come with some justification, that means writing enough about something that may seem superfluous to the main storyline for awhile in order to seed the idea properly.

I disagree that it wouldn't be WoW. The concept of 'conflict' is basically the root of most films/books/games in some manner, that doesn't block decent character development. WoW just needs to evolve, like it has from the Horde vs Alliance idea of Vanilla which is now pretty much on the backburner it seems.

[primalmatter]

Can't really agree with any of that.

How else would you explain it?

They have what they wanted lgbt characters have been established in lore and in-game quests. What is left?

[TheFirstOnes]

No, oh god no.

Why? Why would we want this?

Dude, this is WARCRAFT! It's a game about kicking the asses of enemies. This isn't some gaypride story, or a romance, or some shit like that.

I think we'd rather not have this happen. Also, there is a lesbian couple in WoW, with their own little story. They're in Azsuna....

So, yeah. Anyway, I don't want any LGBT Representation in WoW, that's "Major". However, that's just me.

[Eapoe]

Troll thread is obvious, but I'll bite.
Why do we need to have defined genders in video games? Why does it matter so much if straight, bi, lesbian, gay, trans, etc? Part of the appeal of not having these things defined is that the not knowing can create appeal as well as controversy. Sure, we know Varian has a son, which means he obviously had sex with a female; but, at the same time, you can also picture him being the Freddie Mercury of WoW, sleeping with men, women, and having sex parties with snakes. Sylvanas could be getting it on with whoever she chooses.
The problem arrives when a company actively addresses it, such as Thrall's wedding or Torbjorn (Overwatch) getting married or having a wife. Then we start running into problems with people feeling not represented.

[Insofin]

What kind of a proper background would you want, then?

Romance/romantic feelings form a big deal for character motivation for many characters, so saying it's only WAR is a bit misleading?

I'm no writer, so I don't know how should they do a proper background. But popping out of nowhere an "I am gay!", "I am lesbian", "I'm a guy but I feel girl" is defenitely not the way.

Maybe they could make Tyrande & Malfurion have a male baby, and then he would meet some other male elf (from some Tyrande's guardian or the likes) which would start as big friendship and develop to love? So that when Tyrande steps down as the NE leader they'd get a gay leader? (or lesbian if you switch genders).
But then again. For that to happen, you'd actually need to put some focus on those two kids. And that would mean losing focus on what moves wow, the war against the legion (in this expansion) and the Alliance vs. Horde.

Also. Which characters are you referring to when you say the romantic thing? Because besides the Malfurion-Tyrande-Illidan trio, I don't recall any more romance.

Yeah, sure, but you can't have both "one-off lines are irreverent" and "longer indepth story is irrelevant" when it comes to details like this. It blocks writers into a corner, do they write longer, more plotted stories that some players will reject as useless or go with a more throw away type line that some will say isn't enough? I don't just mean sexuality, I mean any revelation about a character. If you want it to come with some justification, that means writing enough about something that may seem superfluous to the main storyline for awhile in order to seed the idea properly.

I disagree that it wouldn't be WoW. The concept of 'conflict' is basically the root of most films/books/games in some manner, that doesn't block decent character development. WoW just needs to evolve, like it has from the Horde vs Alliance idea of Vanilla which is now pretty much on the backburner it seems.

The thing is, you plant your seed with other pieces, not with a blatant "Anduin is gay". Want to make Anduin gay? Okay, but set up the environment for the announcement to happen somewhat naturally.

Let's put some wild ideas here. Considering what you've said about Horde vs. Alliance is no longer good. Let's imagine some sort of blood elf, with an age "similar" to Anduin's meets with him. He also wants peace to happen between H and A. At the beginning, they work "separately" (each on its faction) and meet like once a year. As things cool down, they start meeting more and more. And after some more time, bam. They realize they have feelings for eachother.

This plot is quite "classic", boring and I'm sure it's also disappointing. But at least, it doesn't pop a "HERE YOU GO, LGBT REPRESENTATIVE" out of nowhere.

[Lord Pebbleton]

OH yeah, OP is a can of worms I don't want to touch, but the general "no one says they're hetero" is a bit false, because if a gay character would yell "FOR (my same-gender lover name here)!" as a war cry many people (not necessarily you, but you know some of the posters from this thread definitely) go "ugh why does he need to tell he's gay to everyone no one does that... ONE DIMENSIONAL CHARACTER..." ... and meanwhile many, many characters in straight relationships do something similar, but pretty much no one considers them to be flaunting their heterosexuality.

It's completely reasonable to be worried about poorly written LGBT characters because holy heck am I ever, but I never know if people actually care about that or if they just have double standards.

I hope what I wrote makes sense, I'm feeling a bit word-blocked right now :V

(of course I don't really consider any of the major lore characters in WoW to be particularly well-written anyway, so I'm talking about relative well-writtenness here)

I think people would be fine with lgbt characters as long as they make sense. The Marcus situation in Thunder Totem was hilarious and no one complained that it was not ethical to show the aftermath of a weird sexual intercourse. I don't think anyone would mind or care if Maiev turned out to be a lesbian; the only one making a big deal out of this is tikcol.

[TheFirstOnes]

Ok let me put some point:

1) OP don't want LGBT inside game;
2) OP want LGBT inside game because we have non LGBT relevant character;
3) OP declare himself as a "WoW nerd";
4) OP don't care about lore and don't even read quest text;
5) OP talks about relevant and non relevant characters in game;
6) OP only talks about Thrall;

I am the only one who see what OP really is?

Yep!

But hey, someone's gotta bite the bait.

[Orangetai420]

What a load of garbage.

We don't need NPCs telling you their sexuality.

As a bisexual, your post annoys me far more than "LBGT Representation" in video games.

[Deleted]

Yep!

But hey, someone's gotta bite the bait.

27 pages, mon.
Twenty and then seven more.
Jaylock should start feeling a bit insecure.

[alucardtnuoc]

Why does anyone who is LGBT have to announce it? Is their some requirement that if you're not straight you must proclaim your sexual orientation every chance you can?

Also, Why don't you create your own stories with your own characters if you want certain things to be included. You could also apply to blizzard and start working on character development; Nothing is stopping you from making it.