Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Critical92]

Vanish breaks on damage when not using the vanish bug, so only the first hit has the boost. With using the bug you can boost 2 spells i think.

[Kwakman]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=231718/shadowstrike Thats why. YOu get 25% bonus dmg on top of Nightstalker so it's too big of a hit to pass up on.

[Deleted]

Can someone pls explain me the opener for AoE situations in M+ if you use Mantle + Cloak? Currently I am using this: Shadow Blades -> cancel stealth + Symbols of Death macro -> Shadow Dance + Shuriken Storm macro.

Is this the maximum I can do for cloak DPS? :> Thanks for any answers.

[RobertoCarlos]

Is gloomblade the go to talent for Avatar in tomb? Seems a good choice for all of p1

[shaunika123]

Is gloomblade the go to talent for Avatar in tomb? Seems a good choice for all of p1

you can just shurriken storm on maiden, it doesnt do much damage so it wont matter

also, dont use DFA, it really fucks you over there

[Won7on]

Can someone pls explain me the opener for AoE situations in M+ if you use Mantle + Cloak? Currently I am using this: Shadow Blades -> cancel stealth + Symbols of Death macro -> Shadow Dance + Shuriken Storm macro.

Is this the maximum I can do for cloak DPS? :> Thanks for any answers.

I don't use cloak but assuming 5+ mobs I just open Storm > NB (on biggest target) > Symbols+Dance+Storm > DFA. With Cloak you might want to move the Symbols to the beginning so it buffs the big one. Then just alternate Storm > Evisc > Storm > Evisc, as usual. If you really want to go ham, follow up with Vanish+Storm > Evisc > Dance+Storm > Evisc > Storm > Evisc.

Basically, Dance into 2x Storm + 2x Evisc on a NB'd target is your bread-and-butter "AoE". When DFA is up, I do Dance into Storm - DFA - Storm instead.

[Kaluna]

No, the full opener is:


Shadowstrike
Nightblade (This will not be 5+ combo points, that is okay)
Symbols of Death (with T20 4 set bonus)
Shadow Dance
Shadowstrike
Symbols of Death (without T20 4 set bonus)
Shadowstrike
Eviscerate
---------
Shadowstrike
Vanish
Shadowstrike
Death from Above, use Shadow Dance before the Eviscerate part hits
Shadowstrike
Shadowstrike
Eviscerate
Shadowstrike

I was just referring to everything after the line. That part used to go SS BS Vanish+DFA+Dance, now it's SS Vanish+SS DFA+Dance.

- - - Updated - - -



Does the NS buff not apply for the duration of Vanish? Only the first spell?

Where did you get this opener ?
If i follow this, I won't have SoD for the last evi (third one) which is boosted by mantle.

[Won7on]

Where did you get this opener ?
If i follow this, I won't have SoD for the last evi (third one) which is boosted by mantle.

https://riff.tf/guide/subtlety/

Are you referring to the "Symbols of Death (with T20 4 set bonus)" line? Idk why that is there. I use 2p+2p anyway so I just Symbols after the ShD-SS.

[Eckiro]

Which is better 880 Frond or 915 Engine of Eradication for Sub Rogue?

[Varolyn]

Which is better 880 Frond or 915 Engine of Eradication for Sub Rogue?

Engine should be better. Gives a nice static mastery buff and from my experience, it procs a ton, way more than frond ever did.

[Dikka]

Can someone pls explain me the opener for AoE situations in M+ if you use Mantle + Cloak? Currently I am using this: Shadow Blades -> cancel stealth + Symbols of Death macro -> Shadow Dance + Shuriken Storm macro.

Is this the maximum I can do for cloak DPS? :> Thanks for any answers.

Yeah, that is what I do when I have max cloak stacks.
I it is less then max stacks I don't bother with "cancel stealth + Symbols of Death" part.

[Kosie345]

T_T I can't do Shadow Dance just before the eviscerate part hits. I'm assuming it's because of my 200ms latency.

Right?

[honung]

T_T I can't do Shadow Dance just before the eviscerate part hits. I'm assuming it's because of my 200ms latency.

Right?

I don't know, I was able to do it on the PTR and I have like 150ms there. Perhaps you're just not doing it right. Just spam your Shadow Dance button as you come flying down. If you still can't get it to work just play with MFD instead, I guess.

[Kosie345]

Is the difference in dps that much? That I should rather play MFD?

[shaunika123]

Is the difference in dps that much? That I should rather play MFD?

you should play MFD anyway since it's better on non AOE fights, and on AOE fights you can DFA during dance anyway cos the AOE portion getting the bonus dmg matters

[permp]

you should play MFD anyway since it's better on non AOE fights, and on AOE fights you can DFA during dance anyway cos the AOE portion getting the bonus dmg matters

Why MFD is better on ST fights?

[shaunika123]

Why MFD is better on ST fights?

partly because you can run weaponmaster with it
and partly because the free finisher increases shadow blades and shadow dance uptime, and slightly more finality eviscs

DFA is 50% finisher dmg every 30 sec(since you sync with sod) MFD is 100% finisher dmg every 40 sec
DFA does some dmg on its own but as i said MFD reduces cooldowns/increases uptime so it comes out better

it's also slightly easier to play

with the t20 4pc DFA might be better im not 100% sure, but with 2+2 MFD is deffo better

[satori sartori]

partly because you can run weaponmaster with it
and partly because the free finisher increases shadow blades and shadow dance uptime, and slightly more finality eviscs

DFA is 50% finisher dmg every 30 sec(since you sync with sod) MFD is 100% finisher dmg every 40 sec
DFA does some dmg on its own but as i said MFD reduces cooldowns/increases uptime so it comes out better

it's also slightly easier to play

with the t20 4pc DFA might be better im not 100% sure, but with 2+2 MFD is deffo better

why is everyone getting better results with DFA on logs then?
is there just not enough people using MFD?

[Deleted]

why is everyone getting better results with DFA on logs then?
is there just not enough people using MFD?

Pretty much this. DfA build is easier to play than the MfD, especially on fights where you can abuse MfD for resets. Also a lot of people just play what they see the masses are playing.

[shaunika123]

why is everyone getting better results with DFA on logs then?
is there just not enough people using MFD?

because the general concensus was that DFA was better so it got popular, if you check logs you can see MFD popping up more and more
http://imgur.com/a/QiJpg i did every ST fight as MFD

and the difference is really marginal so in the large scheme of things it's basically up to preference, it's barely better, but on avatar, it matters cos DFA can fuck you over big time there.