SPOILERS: Did Sylvanas manipulate Vol'jin's handover of power?

[Deleted]

Well there is a certain Dark Ranger skill she has in all games, but has yet to demonstrate in WoW which could achieve it...

Have missed a couple of things here : From Undercity Varimathras went to Argus to get tortured in a mazochist way only to forget the safe-word ?

Well he didn't exactly go to Argus by choice...
It was the 1st time we heard Sargeras when he did; and he was not pleased at all. :P

[Zoibert the Bear]

Incubi aren't canon, either; at least not yet. As far as we know the Sayaad (Succubi) simply have no male specimens among their number. The Dreadlords being the male members of the race is speculation that was popular way back in the days of WC3, long before WoW was a thing. It's been thoroughly debunked as we now know that the Succubi are of the Sayaad race and the Dreadlords are of the Nathrezim race.

Yep, all I can find is Blizzard actually mentioning "rumors", but no specific answers. From the Ask Creative Dev Answers - Round 1 [Source]

Q: Do incubi exist?

There are several different rumors concerning the male counterparts to the demonic succubus race, and it's clear that the succubi are responsible for all of them. A few of the more common rumors are:
- Yes, there are incubi, but the spell to summon them has been conveniently forgotten by mortal practitioners and Burning Legion agents.
- Incubi are kept as slaves on their home planet, having been rendered incapable of escape or independent movement.
- The succubi consumed the males of their race when they were brought into the Burning Legion. (Alternatively, the act of devouring the males is what caught the attention of the Burning Legion.)

[Deleted]

Varimathras failed in his mission to secure the Undercity at the command of Sargeras himself - on his defeat his was taken to Argus and the Shivarra were tasked with punishing him for his failure.

Let me rephrase it cause i really cannot recall the scenario :
On his defeat he died and upon return to nether he was imprisoned there ? He escaped in some way and was plotting somewhere in Azeroth only to be captured during invasion? How can Sargeras directly communicate with demons in other worlds ?

[Aucald]

Let me rephrase it cause i really cannot recall the scenario :
On his defeat he died and upon return to nether he was imprisoned there ? He escaped in some way and was plotting somewhere in Azeroth only to be captured during invasion? How can Sargeras directly communicate with demons in other worlds ?

I don't think the exact details are known. In the "Battle for the Undercity" fight Varimathras was defeated - he goes through the standard Deathlord death animation with his cuirass falling to the ground. I imagine that like most demons he went back to the Nether for reincarnation, and was captured there and taken under guard to Argus to be punished for his failure. As for how Sargeras was able to communicate with him I can't say - Varimathras was opening a number of portals to allow demons into the Royal Quarter of the Undercity so it seems he had been empowered in some fashion to do the job he'd been assigned. I would assume Sargeras was speaking through these portals during the event itself, but it's unexplained how Varimathras had managed to initially contact Sargeras (and right under the nose of Sylvanas as well).

[omeomorfismo]

1 NPC is your house of nobles. Who have to actual no actions in the game. Besides, no matter what you would try to throw suspicion on Varian of, in no way does it excuse the much worse things that Sylvanas did.

As i said, we are in disagreement. I think the zealotry is in your part and you compare theft from a few to the leader murdering their relative for the bodies. There is a level of necrophilia here than i can't understand how isn't revolting for anyone that is a human in real life.

There is a difference in scale that i am almost near disgusted that some people can't get.

So... if your great great gandfather got raised from the grave and decided to kill you to steal you body you'd be ok with it yes? Good to know. That is totally normal... /rolleyes

But i already said we disagree. So, not sure what else we can achieve here.

1 NPC? are you playing dumb? i must draw a picture? i even wrote that he isnt alone, there are other members in the game, go in stormwind and check yourself, and they are even the fucking reason of defias existence, damn, they even give you quests. /handface

and necrophilia? seriously? damn, this should be a role-play game in a world that had nothing in common with our. if you like play boring humans with 21° century mindset, good for you. i like impersonate alien civilizations and try to understand their probable psichology. and i dont compare "theft from a few", scarlet and alliance are, lorewise, basically death squads for undeads, even some argent dawns are alike.
i mean, as a real human i would be horrified by this conflict, but fundamentally because these things dont exist in real world. there isnt a completely different form of "life", there isnt fundamentals natural forces that doom these form of "life" to suffer (like the light) or be rejected (like nature). you only see an alien being that kills human, then, with real world standard, they are evil.
but the "warcraft reality" is more complicated, they, yes, are somewhat unnatural (even if there is a specific natural force for them), there are complete religions and cultures completely against them, but this dont stop them to be self-aware and freewilled being. they are in a weird spot.
i mean, slaughter of humanoid isnt a bad thing in warcraft per-se. "lesser race" like murloc, gnoll, and so on and so forth are freely genocided by everyone. damn there is even an human cook that sells you a recipe of murloc soup (Kendor Kabonka, and he gave a quest in vanilla for the ricepe). logically the conclusion are 2, or human civilization are simply light suprematist against undead and "lesser races", or they are fundamentally a hypocritical society (more or less like varian effectively).

and i still to miss these sylvanas worse things than varian, she aid and protect her people, she doesnt let them die to starvation and overwork or useless war to the other cape of world. in war even if she use plague, varian use light, both use fel, arcane, necromancy, technology, weapons, etc. maybe the experimentation is a bit controversial, but is inevitable if you want develop anything that isnt a giant deus ex machina like light.

and for last. you will be ok if, after a fucking apocalyptic disaster, being mindcontrolled and freed, you finally can return to your beloved and these dont even listen anything and take fork and torch to hunt you screaming? and then they call fucking death squads of maximum sofference? and then start wars after wars to destroy your only place of pace and safety?

[Aquamonkey]

Incubi aren't canon, either; at least not yet. As far as we know the Sayaad (Succubi) simply have no male specimens among their number.

"Every incubus and petty demon, every nightmare and shadow-hound, every dark lord and captain of the Burning Legion. All have come here while you have fought these few."
--The Last Guardian

[Aucald]

"Every incubus and petty demon, every nightmare and shadow-hound, every dark lord and captain of the Burning Legion. All have come here while you have fought these few."
--The Last Guardian

Medivh's mention is kind of soft-reconned by the Ask Creative Dev Answers - Round 1 info Zoibert the Bear mentioned above. But since Medivh's mention there wasn't really a canon statement to begin with I think it's fine.

[Deleted]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...n_a_circle_of/

The Circle of Star ^. ^

http://imgur.com/a/BZefy

[Raetary]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...n_a_circle_of/

The Circle of Star ^. ^

http://imgur.com/a/BZefy

wrong thread hon.

[Deleted]

Varimathras been well informed about Azeroth affairs despite missing some expansions then.
Also failure is not that punished by Sargeras else half the demons should be already decapitated and Archimonde should crawl around without limbs.
So he went rogue to do what? Ally with Sylvanas in fear of his eternal life?
Most of it doesn't make sense and unless Sylvanas agenda is not known to us yet I would say he has in mind Azharas plan instead.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Varimathras been well informed about Azeroth affairs despite missing some expansions then.
Also failure is not that punished by Sargeras else half the demons should be already decapitated and Archimonde should crawl around without limbs.
So he went rogue to do what? Ally with Sylvanas in fear of his eternal life?
Most of it doesn't make sense and unless Sylvanas agenda is not known to us yet I would say he has in mind Azharas plan instead.

he never actually allied with Sylvanas.

[bowchikabow]

Ever since Vol'jin's death.. rumors have always swirled about why Sylvannas? Why now? Of all the theories to date, the one that would hold the most theoretical water has to do with Bwonsambi.. who needs spirits to maintain his power/life. Sylvannas would be the easy choice to bring more bodies to the land of the dead. We may not have seen the results yet.

This could elude to old god powers though.. As Trolls do draw their voodoo powers from all manner of LOA (which is just generic for spirits, regardless of actual power)

[FelPlague]

Maybe her own links to the spirit world were used to deceive his?

"Varimathras taunts Horde
Varimathras: So, she found me at last. Sent her underlings to finish the job.
Varimathras: Tell me, when she seized your throne of hides and bones, was your allegiance forced? No... I'd wager you surrendered it willingly... or were convinced you did.
Varimathras: It matters not. You are blind to the darkness in your midst."

i dont think she did it, i think someone else who wanted her leading did though
the whole think she was stuck in shock after being told she would be war chief but idk, she may just be good at acting

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Ever since Vol'jin's death.. rumors have always swirled about why Sylvannas? Why now? Of all the theories to date, the one that would hold the most theoretical water has to do with Bwonsambi.. who needs spirits to maintain his power/life. Sylvannas would be the easy choice to bring more bodies to the land of the dead. We may not have seen the results yet.

This could elude to old god powers though.. As Trolls do draw their voodoo powers from all manner of LOA (which is just generic for spirits, regardless of actual power)

are you even playing the game?
she gave the alliance no warning, bassicly stabbing them in the back, yes she had to retreat, but she could have told the alliance to get leaving and they could cover for abit to give them both time to run, instead of saying "yo alliance, were off, goodluck"
And did you forget the whole fucking stormheim story!?
she litterally made a deal with a fucking monster trying to kill us, and tried to enslave our allies to become immortal!

i agree on your theory, that it may be bwonsambi, as Zuljin owes him alot of souls, and hasent really delivered, but sylvanans could start a war that would give him the souls he wants
but people wanna push to syvanas cause it makes sense from what shes done

[omeomorfismo]

i dont think she did it, i think someone else who wanted her leading did though
the whole think she was stuck in shock after being told she would be war chief but idk, she may just be good at acting

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are you even playing the game?
she gave the alliance no warning, bassicly stabbing them in the back, yes she had to retreat, but she could have told the alliance to get leaving and they could cover for abit to give them both time to run, instead of saying "yo alliance, were off, goodluck"
And did you forget the whole fucking stormheim story!?
she litterally made a deal with a fucking monster trying to kill us, and tried to enslave our allies to become immortal!

i agree on your theory, that it may be bwonsambi, as Zuljin owes him alot of souls, and hasent really delivered, but sylvanans could start a war that would give him the souls he wants
but people wanna push to syvanas cause it makes sense from what shes done

in reality she sound the retreat horn xD
btw, i dont know how is ally stromheim, but at least for horde i never meet vrykuls before being send in helheim by the rune guy, then when inside i was suggested by the shielmaiden to kill vrykul. actually we were the attacker, she never actively try to kill us.

[Zulkhan]

she gave the alliance no warning, bassicly stabbing them in the back, yes she had to retreat, but she could have told the alliance to get leaving and they could cover for abit to give them both time to run, instead of saying "yo alliance, were off, goodluck"

Even assuming Sylvanas was negligent, that's not what a "stab in the back" is in the slightest. Plus, Sylvanas actually sounded a signal, even if it didn't carry a loud "EVERYONE BAD THINGS HAPPENING GO AWAY" message around.

Ultimately all of this is meaningless since the Alliance did retreat just fine and nothing would have prevented Gul'dan from throwing that Fel Reaver on the field the moment the Alliance attempted to retreat, no matter the moment they would have done that.

[united]

why y'all trusting dreadlords

lmao exactly i'm dying at some of these arguments

[FelPlague]

Even assuming Sylvanas was negligent, that's not what a "stab in the back" is in the slightest. Plus, Sylvanas actually sounded a signal, even if it didn't carry a loud "EVERYONE BAD THINGS HAPPENING GO AWAY" message around.

Ultimately all of this is meaningless since the Alliance did retreat just fine and nothing would have prevented Gul'dan from throwing that Fel Reaver on the field the moment the Alliance attempted to retreat, no matter the moment they would have done that.

i dont think you read what i said
yes she gave a warning they were leaving

but here so i can explain it for you


suddenly your friend appears at your house, without warning and says "ok man lets go" you are no where near ready...

they should have warned them they were getting ready to leave
as i said in my post, should have given them warning instead of out of no where "OK FUCKERS CYA"

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in reality she sound the retreat horn xD
btw, i dont know how is ally stromheim, but at least for horde i never meet vrykuls before being send in helheim by the rune guy, then when inside i was suggested by the shielmaiden to kill vrykul. actually we were the attacker, she never actively try to kill us.

no where did i say she didnt sound retreat, what i did say is she gave the alliance no time, she sounded it then ran, not even giving the alliance a second of cover before retreating, she just ran, giving them no help on their retreat

[Friendlyimmolation]

i dont think you read what i said
yes she gave a warning they were leaving

but here so i can explain it for you


suddenly your friend appears at your house, without warning and says "ok man lets go" you are no where near ready...

they should have warned them they were getting ready to leave
as i said in my post, should have given them warning instead of out of no where "OK FUCKERS CYA"

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no where did i say she didnt sound retreat, what i did say is she gave the alliance no time, she sounded it then ran, not even giving the alliance a second of cover before retreating, she just ran, giving them no help on their retreat

Its just not realistic. If you are being over run, your duty is to your soldiers first.

[omeomorfismo]

i dont think you read what i said
yes she gave a warning they were leaving

but here so i can explain it for you


suddenly your friend appears at your house, without warning and says "ok man lets go" you are no where near ready...

they should have warned them they were getting ready to leave
as i said in my post, should have given them warning instead of out of no where "OK FUCKERS CYA"

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no where did i say she didnt sound retreat, what i did say is she gave the alliance no time, she sounded it then ran, not even giving the alliance a second of cover before retreating, she just ran, giving them no help on their retreat

that sound like a proper retreat, considering how much exposed were the archers that gave the covering

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

I know what I'm about to say will fall on deaf ears because how dare I try to besmirch the name of someone's zombie waifu but here I go.

You people who are claiming Varimathras is lying have no idea of how storytelling works and common tropes therein.

Villains Never Lie
Fiction Never Lies

Whenever a villain tells an outright lie it is always plainly obvious to the audience. Varimathras is simply acting as a surrogate for Blizzard in order to tease the next expansion. His words will have absolutely no impact in universe, they were directed entirely towards to the audience.

Resume blocking your ears and dry humping your Sylvanas body pillows.