Seattle to vote on implementing income tax on just the wealthy

[Grapemask]

Now here's the real question, who's the greedy person.

Person 1) Works, earns income, doesn't want to be taxed.

Person 2) Works very minimal amount of hours, or not at all, wants money from people who work.

Person 2 is also the extreme minority that is such a statistical abnormality that he barely appears on a graph.

[Symphonic]

Pretty much. If rich people were truly that averse to just paying taxes they'd all be living in Bumfuck, Utah or whatnot. But they don't, so.

Not sure if you're taking a dig at me because I live in Utah, but it's kind of laughable you think we're just coasting along tax-free out here.

[Elegiac]

Not sure if you're taking a dig at me because I live in Utah, but it's kind of laughable you think we're just coasting along tax-free out here.

No, but you're sucking money from the actually productive states. Go figure.

[Toogoodman]

US currency is backed by the US gov't, and that rate is the only thing that actually gives money any sort of inherent value. In your vehicle example, while the bank doesn't own you, it absolutely owns your vehicle until you pay the loan off. If you disagree, stop payments for a few months and observe what happens.

Property rights have countless limitations by various forms of gov't, including eminent domain, which has been used many times throughout this country's history. And again, property you 'own' can absolutely be taken by the gov't for non payment of taxes, etc.

Our FIAT money is backed by the US government, i get that, been that way since Nixon took us off the gold standard. What i was getting at is, even if that medium of exchange was gone, we would still be able to barter, which is a form of an economy.

Obviously if i stopped paying on my car, they would take it away. However, the bank doesn't own me, and couldn't sell me off into slavery because i defaulted on a loan.

[Milchshake]

Not sure if you're taking a dig at me because I live in Utah, but it's kind of laughable you think we're just coasting along tax-free out here.

Well there's Utah, and there's bumfuck Utah. Ya know, the people that complain how Salt Lake is out of touch with Real Utahns because its tucked away in the far end of the state. Then there's the absolute crazies in Hildale. OR the ones who moved a block away to be in Colorado City, to dodge all those unfair Utah taxes.

Well no surprise all these bros are bad at history. Microsoft did have its earlier campus in Bellevue in the 80's. Then they moved to Redmond cause of taxes and square footage prices. Bellevue always had a higher B&O tax than Kirkland or Redmond. But now look who bought up office tower space in downtown Bellevue.. and Seattle, its Microsoft. So they came back.

2001 Boeing tried to hold local governments hostage over taxes for their corporate offices and left for Chicago. Other companies were more than happy to fill in the space. The local governments got to keep their money and have new people move in.

[McFuu]

This could all be avoided if Seattle just charged a symbolic 1% tax on earnings up to 250k and their proposed 2.25% on earnings afterwards. Why people are arguing against the tax as a concept is beyond me. After a little research the cost of living in WA and Seattle due to taxes is comically low. But you can't charge a tax to only one portion of the population. Especially an "Income Tax". Charge everyone the income tax and call it a day.

[NineSpine]

Our FIAT money is backed by the US government, i get that, been that way since Nixon took us off the gold standard. What i was getting at is, even if that medium of exchange was gone, we would still be able to barter, which is a form of an economy.

Obviously if i stopped paying on my car, they would take it away. However, the bank doesn't own me, and couldn't sell me off into slavery because i defaulted on a loan.

No, barter only emerges in systems that already have currency, because it allows people to establish market values.

The reason the bank can't capture you and sell you off into slavery because you defaulted on the loan is because the GOVERNMENT as constructed an economic system where that is not an option.

[Symphonic]

No, but you're sucking money from the actually productive states. Go figure.

Wow I can't believe you really hate Utah, for a reason that you're wrong about. I'd like to know how Utah is sucking money from other "productive" states (What does that even mean, your state in Oz doesn't get as much federal aid because some of it goes to utah? What??). Until you can prove your claim, it's baseless and rude.

https://ballotpedia.org/Utah_state_budget_and_finances

Okay....

[Glorious Leader]

Our FIAT money is backed by the US government, i get that, been that way since Nixon took us off the gold standard. What i was getting at is, even if that medium of exchange was gone, we would still be able to barter, which is a form of an economy.

Obviously if i stopped paying on my car, they would take it away. However, the bank doesn't own me, and couldn't sell me off into slavery because i defaulted on a loan.

Actually even in the case of barter you would still have the state defining the boundaries in which that market existed. Simple put markets don't exist without states be they barter or currency markets.

The mythological barter society usually advocated by an caps and libertarians was just that a myth or a though experiment at best. Nobody is robinson crusoe. You all live with others.

- - - Updated - - -

No, barter only emerges in systems that already have currency, because it allows people to establish market values.

The reason the bank can't capture you and sell you off into slavery because you defaulted on the loan is because the GOVERNMENT as constructed an economic system where that is not an option.

They used to do that actually. Debtors prisons were a thing at one point.

[Captain N]

They used to do that actually. Debtors prisons were a thing at one point.

Well they didn't go completely away either. Can't pay your bail/fine money -- stay in jail.

Nothing says freedom like spending time behind bars because you can't pay the fine for speeding on your way to work.

[Glorious Leader]

Well they didn't go completely away either. Can't pay your bail/fine money -- stay in jail.

Nothing says freedom like spending time behind bars because you can't pay the fine for speeding on your way to work.

Indeed. The nation that touts it's love of freedom but somehow manages to imprison more citizens per capita is an irony that should not be lost on anyone.

[Realitytrembles]

So you confess to being like a thief I see. But you are actually much worse than that. A thief knows that what he is doing is wrong and that he will be punished by the state if caught. You want to steal much more money than a thief ever could and what's worse, you want to have the state doing the stealing for you (and no, dont even try to claim that 91 % tax is not a theft, it is).

I think you misunderstand the word " theft". If the law is written such, then it is legal. Theft implies an extralegal taking. Taxes are written into law.

Your emotional reaction does not change the definition of legal and illegal.

[Zoranon]

I think you misunderstand the word " theft". If the law is written such, then it is legal. Theft implies an extralegal taking. Taxes are written into law.

Your emotional reaction does not change the definition of legal and illegal.

By your logic, gassing Jews was legal because it was written in law. I refuse such attitudes.

[RaoBurning]

By your logic, gassing Jews was legal because it was written in law. I refuse such attitudes.

Well, you'd be wrong. Doesn't make it right, ethical, or moral by any means, but those are all very separate things from "legal." That said, taxes still aren't theft and you'd be hard sought to find a society that functioned without them. Once upon a (very prosperous) time in the US, our top marginal tax rate was in the neighborhood of 90 percent (before deductions, loopholes, and what have you), and everyone still got on quite nicely.

[Zoranon]

Well, you'd be wrong. Doesn't make it right, ethical, or moral by any means, but those are all very separate things from "legal." That said, taxes still aren't theft and you'd be hard sought to find a society that functioned without them. Once upon a (very prosperous) time in the US, our top marginal tax rate was in the neighborhood of 90 percent (before deductions, loopholes, and what have you), and everyone still got on quite nicely.

Legal positivism went out of fashion for a reason. The attitude "it is law therefore it is legal" is poisonous.

[RaoBurning]

Legal positivism went out of fashion for a reason. The attitude "it is law therefore it is legal" is poisonous.

"It's the law therefore it is legal" is fundamentally true, though. If you'd said "it's the law therefore it's right/ethical/moral/etc. is poisonous" I'd agree wholeheartedly. But you're trying to argue that a triangle doesn't have three sides here.