Battlemages! Should one of the specs become them?

[pies1]

Both of which are garbage games. Because mages aren't meant to be tanks; they've been a pure DPS since the beginning and need to stay that way. You want a "magical" tank? Go play a Death Knight.

So you have no actual argument outside of NUH UH. Glad we cleared that up.

There's plenty of cutscene evidence of mages (specifically Khadgar) using arcane magic to block specific attacks. Time magic has previous been a self-healing mechanic for mages (altered time in WoTLK). All it needs is magically enhanced robes to increase defense (probably via a passive trait) and you have a basic tanking toolkit.

[G3istly]

So you have no actual argument outside of NUH UH. Glad we cleared that up.

There's plenty of cutscene evidence of mages (specifically Khadgar) using arcane magic to block specific attacks. Time magic has previous been a self-healing mechanic for mages (altered time in WoTLK). All it needs is magically enhanced robes to increase defense (probably via a passive trait) and you have a basic tanking toolkit.

You're grasping at straws to come up with an argument for mages to have a tank specialization. If this is all you have to go on then I could easily argue that everyone could have a tank specialization. Hell, let's throw in a healer specialization while we're at it.

[Deleted]

sorry dude, this character already exists.
They call it a death knight.

it is basically a close range caster
it summons armies of dead
it wears plate
it deals frost and shadow damages mainly.

you could call it a necromancer.
It already fits your definition of a battlemage.

I'm not sure you read my post.

A Death Knight is a Battlemage in the same sense that Paladins are Battlemages, as in, they're not.

Battlemages channel arcane magic whilst fighting in melee range.

They do not summon the dead

And they do not use shadow magic, or the kind of frost magic Death Knights use.

The only similarities between the two are that they are close range casters in plate. That's it.

What I'm suggesting and asking for, is a melee spec that uses arcane magic, you know, the pretty violet particle effects, as that niche hasn't been filled yet. Now, whether it's a spec, a talent, or even a new class, and whether they tank or deal damage, I could honestly care less. But saying something is basically another thing when it's not is ludicrous.

[Deleted]

I'd really like to see battle mages as a new class. Honestly from DK through Monk to DH, we always got hybrid tank/melee dps spec.
So what blizz really should introduce is new melee/ranged hybrid class. And I could definitely see it something like mail wearer (we currently have only two classes wearing mail as opposing to 3 classes for each other armor type). Specs could be tank - summoning all the fancy armors, barriers and auras, Spellblade type melee dps, and some kind of arcane archer - summoned bow, the only and true user of Arcane Shot ( ) and other stuff like that.

[Deleted]

You're grasping at straws to come up with an argument for mages to have a tank specialization. If this is all you have to go on then I could easily argue that everyone could have a tank specialization. Hell, let's throw in a healer specialization while we're at it.

He isn't grasping at straws, he's giving you a clear example of how a tank mage spec could work.

You however are grasping at straws trying to come up with a reason for mages not being tanks other than, "They've always been a pure DPS spec", and "The games that feature tank mages are shit" both are lousy arguments, and you're being stubborn and obtuse.

A tanking mage spec isn't far fetched.

And yes I bet you could argue that everyone could be tanks but that's not the point here, we're talking about mages and their ability to be tanks.

Which they can, I mean the class can conjure anything out of thin air, of course they can tank.

Magical barriers, to absorb damage, phasing in and out of existence to avoid damage, mirror images to divert enemy attention, conjured armor to gain resistances, conjured weapons to deal damage and generate threat, time disruption fields to slow enemies' attacks, orbitting arcane orbs to damage nearby foes and generate threat, reversing wounds to heal, arcane wards to reduce magic damage, conjuring arcane servants to divert enemy attention, telepathically taunting enemies to attack, arcane explosion to damage nearby enemies and generate threat, infusing a weapon with arcane power, and realeasing waves of energy when swinging it to deal damage and generate threat, those are just some ideas, and I could honestly continue.

I don't care whether a battlemage spec or class does damage or tanks, I'm just saying it could do both. Unless you limit your creativity to fit your arguments.

[Arcanon]

Love it, always wanted a spec like this. Mage, for me personally, often doesn't seem very involved. They just hang out in the back, and while that is cool and useful for some encounters, it's not always the case.
Would love to blink in to melee and weave spell and weapon attacks.
Cloth is potentially a problem, but could easily be solved with an actual effective, and maybe even active, armor spell. Want.

[Polybius]

4th spec, they shouldn't do to mages what they did to survival and combat.

Combat hasn't changed.

[Deleted]

I am of a different opinion when it comes to specs. I think the very idea of "elemental specs" is becoming quite stale to be honest. All MMOs use the spec system, but WoW (and expecially the Mage) is way too limited when it comes the toolkit associated with the spec. I despise the idea of a Mage that uses a single element, simply because it does not make any sense to me: one should use a toolkit based upon necessity, not personal preference.

It makes more sense to me for a class to have a spec that focuses on burst damage and big nukes next to one that focuses more on damage over time effects and another that does maybe slightly less damage but maybe provides significant buffs to the group or interesting useful things (like for example a chance to summon an arcane guardian that you can sacrifice to completely absorb the next hit your tank takes from a boss, allowing more breathing room for your healers in difficult situations).

I agree with this. But to interject with my idea for a new roll the support roll. Where you do 2 things DPS/heal and a utility form (buffs, weakening debuffs, controll). This would probably mean the current specs utility would be nerfed and they need to design dungeons like TBC for CC.
If your a supporter and one roll is dps you still deal 80% of the dmg compared to full dpsers.

One day, Blizzard developers will say openly that "pure DPS classes" come from a more-than-14-years-old concept of gameplay, and that they should expand that.

I think Blizzard has mentioned this once long ago.

A new class feels fresher, but i rather have more specs than classes as this allows classes to keep more unique abilities. Now mages arnt the only one with mirror image and DK's arn't the only ones that can pull mobs together. However it does feel like WoW need one more class thats a mail user and has a ranged dps spec. I would have prefered if they removed some classes and instead of rogues having their 3th spec redesigned in legion that they made that spec into demonhunter or warden.
This design is a bit more confusing as it creater a bigger difference between the specs.

I would hope they slowly add new specs a few each expansion starting with pure classes and Demonhunter.

An issue is which pure spec gets to be tank. I think every pure dpser wants their 4th spec to be tank. I would dislike it very much if mage got healing especially since mages been the furthest away from healing than all other classes and we have tanked the most raidbosses (vanilla+tbc).

Their are many ways to add new theme for mage: Battlemage, Timemaster, Draconic as we have deep connection to all 3 of them. With the goal of adding a new roll.
Battlemage and Draconic would be for tanking
Timemaster would be healing (probably as crappy as discipline healing)

[Deleted]

If you should tank as a mage, i think that a dragon form could me a good way to do it.
It is not obviously related to arcane magic but more to fire.

Makes me think of the eral druid that can be dps and tank with the same spec. Just a bear form and you tank.
-> "go tank ! you mighty molten armor dragon"

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timemaster could be something very different.
some kind of raid buffer or ST buffer, creates pocket portals for raid movement...
... in classic team RPG, it works well. kind of a "bard" class.
on MMO like WOW, this could become a nightmare to design. This was just a stupid idea

[Aeriel]

Honestly, if they went this route, I would see it more as the DPS spec for something like Spellbreakers. Spellblade being DPS and Spellbreaker Tank. I mean both of them are already in game (Spellblade in Suramar, Spellbreakers are every guard in Silvermoon canonically).

Otherwise, it just feels like a Rift rip-off, and does anyone want that?

[G3istly]

He isn't grasping at straws, he's giving you a clear example of how a tank mage spec could work.

You however are grasping at straws trying to come up with a reason for mages not being tanks other than, "They've always been a pure DPS spec", and "The games that feature tank mages are shit" both are lousy arguments, and you're being stubborn and obtuse.

A tanking mage spec isn't far fetched.

And yes I bet you could argue that everyone could be tanks but that's not the point here, we're talking about mages and their ability to be tanks.

Which they can, I mean the class can conjure anything out of thin air, of course they can tank.

Magical barriers, to absorb damage, phasing in and out of existence to avoid damage, mirror images to divert enemy attention, conjured armor to gain resistances, conjured weapons to deal damage and generate threat, time disruption fields to slow enemies' attacks, orbitting arcane orbs to damage nearby foes and generate threat, reversing wounds to heal, arcane wards to reduce magic damage, conjuring arcane servants to divert enemy attention, telepathically taunting enemies to attack, arcane explosion to damage nearby enemies and generate threat, infusing a weapon with arcane power, and realeasing waves of energy when swinging it to deal damage and generate threat, those are just some ideas, and I could honestly continue.

I don't care whether a battlemage spec or class does damage or tanks, I'm just saying it could do both. Unless you limit your creativity to fit your arguments.

No. Get over it.

[Deleted]

All mages fight in melee range when soloing stuff out in the world, unless you're overgeared and kill them before they even reach you.

[MagusHenosis]

Again lol, you can already be a "tank" on Mage in PvP, by playing Frost a certain way.

I am seemingly the only one really who has the footwork required to play it that way though.

You basically need to be able to spin circles around people so well, that you aren't afraid to go toe to toe with a warrior, etc. for a while.

The truth is that most of you in this community just aren't any good compared to me, and it's just as simple as that.

Perhaps beg Blizzard to dumb the game down, so I can't stand out as much???

Oh wait though lol, idiocracy is ending, and the game is becoming more hardcore.

I guess that means I am going to become even better soon compared to most of you.....

[dcc626]

I suppose...but who said we need to add a new spec to all...could do it for some...makes just about as much sense as only 1 class getting 4 when we know at least a few classes could support more specs.

But either way...class or spec...playing a Battlemage is something I'd be interested in if the class or spec is built well.

the only reason druids have a 4th spec was to bring the power level of feral down. it wasnt to give druids something additional, it was to take something away.

[Kithelle]

the only reason druids have a 4th spec was to bring the power level of feral down. it wasnt to give druids something additional, it was to take something away.

No matter what the reason people are still gonna want 4th specs for other classes...just human nature.

[MagusHenosis]

No matter what the reason people are still gonna want 4th specs for other classes...just human nature.

Well, if there was to be a 4th Mage spec, then it should be something other than a "Mage tank spec" in my opinion, since that's what Frost basically already is for BGs and WPvP, if you play it at a really high level like I do.

No matter how one plays it, the truth is that Frost is just plain subpar, and to "tank" on it is what I do out of necessity, since that's the most beneficial way to play it right now. You basically are keeping the enemies busy, until your mates have time to kill them. The problem with this, is that certain other classes like DK just do this far better than we do, while doing more damage AND taking less to boot even!!!

What school of magic would a new Mage spec be anyways???

[G3istly]

What school of magic would a new Mage spec be anyways???

A "new" school of magic wouldn't be necessary as the only thing they could reasonably add is a Battlemage specialization that utilizes all three schools to augment their melee attacks.

[Kithelle]

Well, if there was to be a 4th Mage spec, then it should be something other than a "Mage tank spec" in my opinion, since that's what Frost basically already is for BGs and WPvP, if you play it at a really high level like I do.

No matter how one plays it, the truth is that Frost is just plain subpar, and to "tank" on it is what I do out of necessity, since that's the most beneficial way to play it right now. You basically are keeping the enemies busy, until your mates have time to kill them. The problem with this, is that certain other classes like DK just do this far better than we do, while doing more damage AND taking less to boot even!!!

What school of magic would a new Mage spec be anyways???

Well if they did a Battlemage spec I would personally would say Arcane because the game doesn't have a melee class that does a significant amount or Arcane damage.

[Protean]

All classes should have a fourth spec. Super simple to implement and balance. Much easier than an entirely new class. Perhaps a feature in a future expansion.

I think it's more likely that we'll get 2-3 specs per expansion when they don't have new classes lined up, than them adding the equivalent of 3 new classes at once.

Still, the opponents of 4th spec seems super focused entirely on "all classes gets +1 spec at the same time", except accepting that things don't always have to be equal.

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Spellblades, we already saw them among the Nightborne in Suramar. They wield awesome dual bladed weapons and employ awesome arcane magix.

So Mages get a tank spec (yes, to spite all 3 spec classes, except Druid and DH and to skew class populations!) named along the lines of "Arcane Warrior" or "Spellbreaker" or anything at random the OP already mentioned. The spec uses a double bladed weapon (with awesome Darth Maul acrobatics!), tanking is sustained sustained through spells, mana/arcane shields (seen employed by the Nightborne), lots of ranged "manipulation" abilities.

For example:
Mob repositioning: teleport them from somewhere to you or from somewhere to somewhere.
Mobility: teleport yourself at/behind target.
Damage control: designate an area which accumulates damage done to targets within it (targets take lower damage, potential use is where you are tanking, but not limited to it) in an "orb" have the orb at your disposal (float near you a while) to blast a target area with the accumulated damage.
Protection: Absorb magic abilities (filling your mana allowing to go above max), fuel a mana shield with it.

It could be a mixture and employ Fire, Frost and Arcane themed abilities, like Spellblade Aluriel from NH. There's a huge diapason of possibilities and is largely unexplored.

Active mitigation / tanking resource being mana shield / mana.
Mirror image for avoidance, where boss targets each mirror image and hits it once before getting back to you. Maybe random chance that it gets you the first time, with remaining mirror images leaping into you for burst mana so you aren't completely fucked. That's reactive tanking.
I like the idea of a mage tank a lot. We had that back in burning crusade and I felt amazing doing it.

[Deleted]

i always thought about an "arcane tank". you could have a summoned (conjured?!) shield + sword or real shield/weapon like spellbreaker (warcraft 3).
not sure about the mechanics, but i guess blizzard could come up with something fun and new for a tank?!