1. #4121
    So, last night i got a 925 Vial, and i have 920 Specter + memento, a 915 Cradle and a couple other 905 trinks.

    The Vial and Specter sim the highest for me but i dont like playing with 2 on use trinks. However, for the sake of the sim - how should i use them?

    In the last Goroth fight i used them like this:
    Wait for Crusade to stack to 15 then pop Specter, wait 8 seconds and pop Vial, then just pop each of them off cd.
    Is that maximising my output? Or am i doing something wrong?

    Logs from myrhic are locked, but i can share a HC kill

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=5

    Ps. The other ret in my group has way better luck and way better trinkets...


    Madness will consume you!!!

  2. #4122
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    So, last night i got a 925 Vial, and i have 920 Specter + memento, a 915 Cradle and a couple other 905 trinks.

    The Vial and Specter sim the highest for me but i dont like playing with 2 on use trinks. However, for the sake of the sim - how should i use them?

    In the last Goroth fight i used them like this:
    Wait for Crusade to stack to 15 then pop Specter, wait 8 seconds and pop Vial, then just pop each of them off cd.
    Is that maximising my output? Or am i doing something wrong?

    Logs from myrhic are locked, but i can share a HC kill

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=5

    Ps. The other ret in my group has way better luck and way better trinkets...
    You have 925 Vial, 920 Specter and a 920 Memento (if i can understand that correctly) and yet he has way better luck? How? Does he have Argus trinkets already??

    Anyways, i have 900 Vial and i use it when Crusade reaches 15 stacks. After that, if the trinket is up early enough you should use it on CD, else wait to restack it with Crusade. As for Specter, as plenty of people mentioned above, it's only good when the boss is stationary. In ToS, that would be Demonic, maybe, Harj at first before the draw in and perhaps Avatar on p1.

    But, i haven't got Specter yet so i can't really judge. Vial + Memento is a good setup though but you should aim for Cinders from Goroth, especially if other people have it in your group.

  3. #4123
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    I'm really unsure of which Legendary setup I want to use. At the moment, because of how slow we are, I've been using Aggramar's Stride this whole expansion (At least, once I got it) for the sake of being able to even move, paired with Whispers of the Nathrezim. However, I just don't know if the boots are really worth having if I want to increase my DpS x_x If it's worth replacing I have Liadrin's Fury, though I wanna aim for the Highlord ring eventually.

  4. #4124
    Quote Originally Posted by stelmat View Post
    You have 925 Vial, 920 Specter and a 920 Memento (if i can understand that correctly) and yet he has way better luck? How? Does he have Argus trinkets already??

    Anyways, i have 900 Vial and i use it when Crusade reaches 15 stacks. After that, if the trinket is up early enough you should use it on CD, else wait to restack it with Crusade. As for Specter, as plenty of people mentioned above, it's only good when the boss is stationary. In ToS, that would be Demonic, maybe, Harj at first before the draw in and perhaps Avatar on p1.

    But, i haven't got Specter yet so i can't really judge. Vial + Memento is a good setup though but you should aim for Cinders from Goroth, especially if other people have it in your group.
    He has 940 Specter and 930 Cinders... Thats how. He also has 2+4 set and i have the crappy helm and a shitty mastery chest... Cuz its just so high lvl.

    I knkw to use an on use trinket with 15 stacks...

    My question was more what to do when i have 2 on use trinkets... And to me, the only none stationary boss in Tomb is Maiden, but i usually just pop my Specter late on her when i know shes not gonna move for a minute


    Madness will consume you!!!

  5. #4125
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I'm really unsure of which Legendary setup I want to use. At the moment, because of how slow we are, I've been using Aggramar's Stride this whole expansion (At least, once I got it) for the sake of being able to even move, paired with Whispers of the Nathrezim. However, I just don't know if the boots are really worth having if I want to increase my DpS x_x If it's worth replacing I have Liadrin's Fury, though I wanna aim for the Highlord ring eventually.
    If you want DPS then you should swap to Liadrin's asap. Highlord ring is nice if you enjoy the DP playstyle but for me it required 31% ish haste to be about equal dps wise to belt/liadrin's combo.

  6. #4126
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I'm really unsure of which Legendary setup I want to use. At the moment, because of how slow we are, I've been using Aggramar's Stride this whole expansion (At least, once I got it) for the sake of being able to even move, paired with Whispers of the Nathrezim. However, I just don't know if the boots are really worth having if I want to increase my DpS x_x If it's worth replacing I have Liadrin's Fury, though I wanna aim for the Highlord ring eventually.
    Go with ring 100000%, you can just make a macro to swap sets (build a movement one with boots) in between pulls. Always ring, ALWAYS, if boots is your other choice.

    @killwithpwr I didn't say you didn't know when to use trinkets, i just expressed my PoV. Even with his trinkets, your ilvl trinkets are good. I'm stuck with 900 Vials and the stupid trinket from Maiden (920, engineer something).

    I insist though, go with Vials and Memento, the latter especially is great for progress since people tend to die a lot and we need the buff to dps (kek). Use specter whenever you feel like the fight helps you to.

  7. #4127
    Quote Originally Posted by stelmat View Post
    Go with ring 100000%, you can just make a macro to swap sets (build a movement one with boots) in between pulls. Always ring, ALWAYS, if boots is your other choice.

    @killwithpwr I didn't say you didn't know when to use trinkets, i just expressed my PoV. Even with his trinkets, your ilvl trinkets are good. I'm stuck with 900 Vials and the stupid trinket from Maiden (920, engineer something).

    I insist though, go with Vials and Memento, the latter especially is great for progress since people tend to die a lot and we need the buff to dps (kek). Use specter whenever you feel like the fight helps you to.
    I do love how Memento Moans at me whenever i get Retribution passive buff... Sounds right


    Madness will consume you!!!

  8. #4128
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    In the last Goroth fight i used them like this:
    Wait for Crusade to stack to 15 then pop Specter, wait 8 seconds and pop Vial, then just pop each of them off cd.
    Is that maximising my output? Or am i doing something wrong?
    suboptimal better would be to stack to 15 then vial and once the cool down has passed specter. with the way you do it you waste halve of the vial dot since it wont be profiting from the crusade buff.
    Specter is doing its dmg in just 4 seconds so you should still be well within your crusade window

  9. #4129
    Quote Originally Posted by CptKnusper View Post
    suboptimal better would be to stack to 15 then vial and once the cool down has passed specter. with the way you do it you waste halve of the vial dot since it wont be profiting from the crusade buff.
    Specter is doing its dmg in just 4 seconds so you should still be well within your crusade window
    Hmm didnt take that into consideration. I forget that snapshotting isnt a thing anymore... Thanks


    Madness will consume you!!!

  10. #4130
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Right, I'm gonna switch the boots to the ring then as soon as I find some good replacement for them, thanks guys!

  11. #4131
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    If you want DPS then you should swap to Liadrin's asap. Highlord ring is nice if you enjoy the DP playstyle but for me it required 31% ish haste to be about equal dps wise to belt/liadrin's combo.
    It really depends though. Liadrin's is definitely good, but in practice you're probably going to waste a few HP per crusade. For me, Liadrin's sims about 1% higher than Highlord, but I still use Highlord on most fights.

    1) Getting a few DP procs when adds spawn is a huge DPS increase.
    2) Getting a DP proc at low stacks of crusade and dumping it into a JV is faster stacks, and the sooner you can get to 15 the better.
    3) On progression content, being able to heal yourself to full with a JV or help in raid healing with a WoG is actually pretty useful.
    4) On farm content, Highlord's is higher variance, and if it's farm content, gotta go for those parses! If you get a lucky crusade that's filled with DP procs, you're going to get a great parse.

    I would say that on average, from a pure damage perspective, Liadrin's is going to beat Highlord's even if you waste a few HP per crusade just because of how amazing the stats on it are, but average damage isn't the only thing worth considering.

  12. #4132
    I agree with much of that, but "average damage isn't the only thing worth considering" also counts in Liadrin's favour.
    - Highlord's being RNG means that its average damage over the fight is the only thing you can come close to relying on - any other advantages it might have are literally just that, advantages it MIGHT have. It also might not :-)
    - Liadrin's benefits a tool that we already give careful consideration of how best to use. We put a lot of thought into ensuring that we get the most out of Crusade, so a benefit that's tailored to precisely then will tend to be better than something that's more spread out over the whole fight.

  13. #4133
    Quote Originally Posted by Wutangrza View Post
    It really depends though. Liadrin's is definitely good, but in practice you're probably going to waste a few HP per crusade. For me, Liadrin's sims about 1% higher than Highlord, but I still use Highlord on most fights.

    1) Getting a few DP procs when adds spawn is a huge DPS increase.
    2) Getting a DP proc at low stacks of crusade and dumping it into a JV is faster stacks, and the sooner you can get to 15 the better.
    3) On progression content, being able to heal yourself to full with a JV or help in raid healing with a WoG is actually pretty useful.
    4) On farm content, Highlord's is higher variance, and if it's farm content, gotta go for those parses! If you get a lucky crusade that's filled with DP procs, you're going to get a great parse.

    I would say that on average, from a pure damage perspective, Liadrin's is going to beat Highlord's even if you waste a few HP per crusade just because of how amazing the stats on it are, but average damage isn't the only thing worth considering.
    Well he didn't have Highlord which is why I said equip Liadrin's. The comment about Highlord was just because I saw pretty big differences between 20, 25 and 31% haste. Without high haste Liadrin's will be better but with high haste it's within what I'd call margin of error where, for me, Liadrin's is slightly better on ST while Highlord is slightly better on cleave. This being combined with belt, in full mythic gear cloak+highlord might come to it's own but for now my 2x T19 is worth more than any other combo.

    Edit: For my gear just click link below (trinkets might change between cinders, specter, claw, glaives).

  14. #4134
    Dreadlord Vuagnon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    Depends what you want to do.

    PvP: No, ret sucks as ever
    Casual PvE: Yeah sure go for it
    Hardcore PvE: Nope
    It's a no then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But that doesn't mean I can't try something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

  15. #4135
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuagnon View Post
    It's a no then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But that doesn't mean I can't try something else.
    sure try arms. he is what ret could have been

  16. #4136
    Quote Originally Posted by CptKnusper View Post
    sure try arms. he is what ret could have been
    Or Fury.
    Because world could always use more frothing berserkers.

  17. #4137
    Has anyone with Liadrin's Fury and 4pieceT20 felt like they're getting flooded with DP (and wasting some as a result) during crusade?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Well, I want the freedom to put poison in food and sell it to anyone I want and call it sugar. It's my freedom to do so, so you can't tell me no.

  18. #4138
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyman64 View Post
    Has anyone with Liadrin's Fury and 4pieceT20 felt like they're getting flooded with DP (and wasting some as a result) during crusade?
    You can't really avoid that if you're getting tons of BoW procs, but if you're getting enough BoW procs to be wasting HP, that's probably not bad. Only thing you can do to avoid it as much as you can otherwise is to spend asap.

  19. #4139
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyman64 View Post
    Has anyone with Liadrin's Fury and 4pieceT20 felt like they're getting flooded with DP (and wasting some as a result) during crusade?
    Are you using TfoJ or Zeal? With 4set T20 and Liadrin's Zeal should be the way to go in order to help with the problem you describe.

  20. #4140
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Are you using TfoJ or Zeal? With 4set T20 and Liadrin's Zeal should be the way to go in order to help with the problem you describe.
    I'm using zeal. Right now my sim's are saying that the Scarlet chest (which I have) is better for both single target and AoE than Liadrin's. I suspect that's because Liadrin's loses value when you get HP flooded and also because my next highest chest is 885 versus 900 for the ring Liadrin's would replace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Well, I want the freedom to put poison in food and sell it to anyone I want and call it sugar. It's my freedom to do so, so you can't tell me no.

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