Is the decline of birthrates ultimately a positive in the long term?

[Vapo]

China has one of the most rapidly declining birthrates of any country (largely due to the One Child Policy and the prevalent and extreme work culture there) and family planning in India and less strictly enforced two child policies on a state by state basis are decreasing birthrates.

China isnt 1child-policy anymore.

[Theodarzna]

If what you say is true then why is Canada so restrictive on immigration policy? Based on what you are claiming then you would want as many as you can get to come to Canada would increase your diversity and your tax base and make it even more fun to live in.

I am curious why it doesn't work in reverse. Nobody has yet to argue that Turkey's lack of Russians, Spanish or Mexicans makes it boring or less fun to live in.

[Seranthor]

because canada net population is still increasing. it hasn't reached the level where net population has started to decline at a point where it's detrimental to society/economy

Finland's population is still rising, didn't stop the OP from creating this thread.

[Techno-Druid]

China isnt 1child-policy anymore.

No, now it's a two-child policy and that still doesn't and likely won't affect anything. The entire reason China ended the one child policy was because of amazingly low birthrates and a steadily aging population.

[Seranthor]

I am curious why it doesn't work in reverse. Nobody has yet to argue that Turkey's lack of Russians, Spanish or Mexicans makes it boring or less fun to live in.

Good question... there are millions of Mexicans just south of the Canadian border, think how much fun Canada could have with just a million of them... and omg how much they'd increase the diversity and the tax base as well.

[Techno-Druid]

I am curious why it doesn't work in reverse. Nobody has yet to argue that Turkey's lack of Russians, Spanish or Mexicans makes it boring or less fun to live in.

I'd certainly argue that lol.

[Karaoke]

Finland's population is still rising, didn't stop the OP from creating this thread.

what does that have to do with anything? it's not tomorrow...does that mean i can't consider what i want for breakfast when i wake up?

[Theodarzna]

I'd certainly argue that lol.

In the case of Turkey all I can ask is "Where did all the Armenians go?"

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Good question... there are millions of Mexicans just south of the Canadian border, think how much fun Canada could have with just a million of them... and omg how much they'd increase the diversity and the tax base as well.

Or how about Mexico take in a couple million Scandinavians or Ukrainians, I mean, Vibrant Diversity and all, right?

[Deleted]

A very bad thing.

First of all, it's not a flat decline across the world, but only in the upper societies as well as 1st and 2nd worlds. This means that the people in 3rd world countries, mostly infested with religion, fanaticism and ignorance, are breeding like rabbits and will eventually overtake the rest, bringing about a new dark age for Humanity. You know that movie Idiocracy? That's not a comedy, that's a prophecy.

2nd of all, without lots of young people being employed, there is little support for retirement funds for the older people. In simpler terms, there is no one to pay the pensions.

[Caerule]

Declining birthrates will eventually threaten the fall of society. Human population has been expanding exponentially. if we're not to outgrow our planet, we population shrinkage is a good thing. Earth's population stabilizing or shrinking will be the point we can say that humanity isn't on a dead end course.

However, our economy is based on population growth, because we measure wealth not based on individual wealth, but that of nations and businesses. And the system is set up that even stagnation will cause the whole thing to tumble apart. Growth, or death. And population growth increasing the market is a vital component of that.

As populations shrink, so will eventually the economy. The current system can't handle that. And thus the very foundation of our economic system may become undone. It won't destroy humanity. We're more resilient and wide-spread than the cockroach now. But it is one of the biggest upcoming threats to our society. One importing refugees from other countries can only off-set for a limited time.

[Zmaniac17]

Population == marketplace == economy == GDP

Population == national defense

The US is the only Western country that will show positive population growth over the next 50 years.

This is over simplifying it too much. Population size can be a driving factor in a countries prosperity, but only if the country can provide the population with the resources it needs (education, housing, food, healthcare, power, water, jobs, sanitation etc.). Without that the population becomes a burden rather than a benefit.


Given the right level of technology the earth can potentially support trillions of people with a lot of space left over. When you start getting into numbers that high we will have trouble getting rid of waste heat from all of our activities and that is the real limit to population on Earth. At that point we can start expanding into space with orbital rings which can be host to trillions more.

[Techno-Druid]

In the case of Turkey all I can ask is "Where did all the Armenians go?"

Nowhere, apparently to your average Turk on the street. Seems like the few remaining Greeks in Turkey are starting to decline in numbers as well in Erdogan's Turkey

Or how about Mexico take in a couple million Scandinavians or Ukrainians, I mean, Vibrant Diversity and all, right?

Mexico has one of most arguably racist immigration policies in the world that essentially makes it easier for Canadians, Americans and Europeans to become Mexican citizens than their south of the border, mestizo neighbors. So I'd imagine Mexico would love having millions of more European (well, "full blooded") immigrants.

[Protean]

How exactly is that better than having larger native population?

Biological and genetic diversity has always been an advantage.

[Techno-Druid]

A very bad thing.

First of all, it's not a flat decline across the world, but only in the upper societies as well as 1st and 2nd worlds. This means that the people in 3rd world countries, mostly infested with religion, fanaticism and ignorance, are breeding like rabbits and will eventually overtake the rest, bringing about a new dark age for Humanity. You know that movie Idiocracy? That's not a comedy, that's a prophecy.

2nd of all, without lots of young people being employed, there is little support for retirement funds for the older people. In simpler terms, there is no one to pay the pensions.

The developing nations with rapidly increasing populations will continue to do so under increasing economic development until they too stabilize and decline. It's already happening to countries like India, Mexico and Bangladesh.

[Osmeric]

Demographic suicide can't be a good thing long term, unless you're a fan of human extinction.

[PACOX]

A decline in birthrates is a somewhat well documented phenomena in sociology.

In theory, animals produce multiple offspring due to unfavorable mortality rates or some other factor too promote the continued existence of the species.

Birthrates are low or in decline in places with mortality rates are low, relatively peaceful, and economically stable because those factors allow procreation to be about personal fulfillment and less about prolonging the life of the entire species. Also theres a lot more birth control.

Our great grandparents popped out babies because it wasn't uncommon to lose a couple from infancy - adulthood because a huge list of factors. You also needed a couple adult "copies" of your genes because war and sickness could still get them so you'd want more than just 2 running around. Kids were also great help around the house. Oh and less available contraception + nothing better to do but bone .

[Deleted]

A decline in birthrates is a somewhat well documented phenomena in sociology.

In theory, animals produce multiple offspring due to unfavorable mortality rates or some other factor too promote the continued existence of the species.

Birthrates are low or in decline in places with mortality rates are low, relatively peaceful, and economically stable because those factors allow procreation to be about personal fulfillment and less about prolonging the life of the entire species. Also theres a lot more birth control.

Our great grandparents popped out babies because it wasn't uncommon to lose a couple from infancy - adulthood because a huge list of factors. You also needed a couple adult "copies" of your genes because war and sickness could still get them so you'd want more than just 2 running around. Kids were also great help around the house. Oh and less available contraception + nothing better to do but bone .

The vast majority of animals also live a lot less than humans. It's just some species of parrot and land turtles that live as long as humans or even outlive them.

[Aquinan]

In much of the developed world and even in countries like India and Bangladesh, birthrates are starting to decline. There are many factors that contribute to this, largely economic, but I hear it often dicussed in a negative light.

However, we live in a world that is drastically automating. Menial jobs are slowly being replaced by machines and it will eventually creep into more complex ones, this will only be more evident with the rise of Artificial General Intelligence or AGI.

As countries develop worldwide, birthrates steadily increase, then stabilize and then decline. This will eventually effect most countries and I for one believe this is a positive in the long term for the prosperity of our descendents.

Overpopulation is the source of many of the worlds problems, a decline in population can't hurt.

[chazus]

It depends on the situation.

When you're talking about small, wealthy countries like Sweden, Japan, Switzerland (excluding places like UAE and US, because their GDP is boosted by a ridiculously wealthy few), it's a problem. Low or negative birthrates puts a dent on GDP and Exports. In china and india, high birthrate was a problem because you had uneducated, impovershed people growing by the dozens. Now, India and China have such a decent education and work program that now they're churning out ridiculous amounts of educated, work-ready people. This is why their GDP is going to overtake the US in a matter of years.

[PACOX]

The vast majority of animals also live a lot less than humans. It's just some species of parrot and land turtles that live as long as humans or even outlive them.

Mammals tend have less offspring in general relative other animal classes.