1. #37161
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I had several other ideas beyond "Just dodge", for tanks. I'd take a little of the gameplay from dark souls with parry/riposte as a mechanic. Not every attack would be parry-able, but those that you did would have a different riposte "effect", so to speak. What if, after a successfully timed parry, you could riposte using a specific skill. Using that skill would reduce its cooldown or make its effect stronger depending on the attack you parried from the boss. It would add decision making to the skill of knowing what to parry and when. Using the model for paladin tanks in say, WoW, you could stack shields on yourself. The idea here is, tanks having intimate knowledge of boss mechanics would be pushed to the forefront rather than being an afterthought.

    Ultimately I would untie tanks from needing healers outside of specific tank "busters" like FFXIV. Most of them would focus on the raid and people doing specific jobs during an encounter. These are all early thoughts and are easier to visualize than to put to text right now.
    I understand your ideas, but how would souls style action combat translate to an mmo where latency is a common issue. I know personally, if tanks where changed to this style of game play, I would never touch the role. I'm getting older, my reflexes are dulling, i'm not as fast as i used to be. I actually prefer the hotbar style game play of most current mmos.

    Me personally, i would like to see tanks be given more interesting rotations and abilities that are more then just defensive cool downs. I think Wrecktangle brought the idea of a bar you can fill. I would take this idea, but set you naturally in the middle, and using different abilities would move you right or left, increasing your defense or offense. This would let the player balance where their at. Early in the fight, you might want to jump your defensive power, but through the fight, you can slowly push your power to the offensive side when mobs die, or the healer has things under control. Just a thought.

  2. #37162
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Well got red mage to 70 guess white mage is next and then blue mage. OH WAIT

    Anyway I get a stacking exp bonus for every 70 I have right?
    Nope, only for the first one. Anything after that you get the same exp boost.

    Armory Bonus
    The Armory Bonus is additional experience granted to any combat class you have that is NOT your highest level class. From levels 1-59, you receive +100% additional experience for secondary classes that are lower level than your highest level class. At level 60, this bonus decreases to only 50%. The amount of experience granted has nothing to do with the distance in levels from your highest class.

    Additionally, the +10% experience from The Heat of Battle II (FC buff) - will stack on top of this buff to provide an additional 10% experience. So the Armory bonus is 110% (armory) + 10% (fc buff) instead of just 100%, while the FC buff is active. This is different from the other bonuses, as they do not receive additional experience from the FC buff.

    The Armory Bonus, as previously mentioned - does not apply to non-combat classes such as gatherers & crafters.
    One day I was walking and I found this big log. Then I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick.
    And I was like, "That log had a child!"

  3. #37163
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Anyway I get a stacking exp bonus for every 70 I have right?
    No, armory exp bonus is only from one job.

    The Armory Bonus is additional experience granted to any combat class you have that is NOT your highest level class. From levels 1-59, you receive +100% additional experience for secondary classes that are lower level than your highest level class. At level 60, this bonus decreases to only 50%. The amount of experience granted has nothing to do with the distance in levels from your highest class.

    Examples:
    • Your highest level combat class is 20. You are playing as that class. You receive no armory bonus.
    • Your highest level combat class is 20. You are playing as a second combat class that is less than level 20. You are now receiving armory bonus exp.
    • Your highest level combat class is 20. You are playing a second combat class that is also level 20. You receive no armory bonus.

  4. #37164
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    DPS centered tank model + untied from needing healers = every non-tank is essentially irrelevant. DPS-centered tank models alone can become "what's the purpose of bringing a DPS" if you've got high damage dealing + defensive cool down tanks.
    I mean there is an easy fix for the DPS-centered tank model. Make it so the Tank can only deal high damage when they are actually tanking, that way you couldn't bring a raid group of all tanks.

    Would suck to be an "Off Tank" in this situation though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    There's a balance to keep in mind when designing your ideal class design. You can't tunnel vision. Designing a tank has to be mindful of how you design 13 other classes at the same time.
    The issue is in "traditional MMO" Where tanks don't deal meaningful damage, and do not have meaningful control over their survival. You end up with a rather dull role. I say this as some one who has been tanking for the last fifteen years of my life across MMOs. The dull role of tanking is actually what pushed me into a raid leading position, the extra responsibilities of call outs and organizing is what I found fun about raiding, not my role.

    Because lets be real, the traditional tank existed so other people in the group could have fun. Of course there will always passive raid damage that healers must heal for, but keeping a tank alive has always been a prime responsibility as far back as I can remember. From the 10 second cast full heal chain cycle of EQ, to the modern day, the tanks role has not changed much but the few changes that have been happening over time are a step in the right direction.

    The big question though is what is the end goal, how can tanks get the same satisfaction and moments of feeling badass that healers and DPS both get, and have been getting.
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    I AM the victim.

  5. #37165
    Finally...all crafters at 70 now. I had stocked up on a fair amount of materia via red scrips while leveling (in addition to all the grade 5s they hand you from the class quests), so my 290 gear is fairly well set up. Still have a bunch of melds left to do on right side, though. But holy damn that set took a pile of Twincoons...like in the neighborhood of 120 total. Fortunately, they are relatively easy to farm, unlike the shit you need for worst thread (intentional typo). I want to drag whoever came up with that recipe around by the nose using my CRP's claw hammer...

  6. #37166
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    The issue is in "traditional MMO" Where tanks don't deal meaningful damage, and do not have meaningful control over their survival. You end up with a rather dull role. I say this as some one who has been tanking for the last fifteen years of my life across MMOs. The dull role of tanking is actually what pushed me into a raid leading position, the extra responsibilities of call outs and organizing is what I found fun about raiding, not my role.
    I actually liked leading a raid as a tank as well. Being able to survey the field, give commands of what I need from who and when, etc. I actually like that as a concept for the tank and wish there were more easily reliable tools for tank to be able to do that myself. From a writing perspective, I imagine the tank most often the leader of the group, calling out strategy and tactic in combat (since we don't have support classes that would take on that role otherwise).

    Because lets be real, the traditional tank existed so other people in the group could have fun. Of course there will always passive raid damage that healers must heal for, but keeping a tank alive has always been a prime responsibility as far back as I can remember. From the 10 second cast full heal chain cycle of EQ, to the modern day, the tanks role has not changed much but the few changes that have been happening over time are a step in the right direction.
    Having played paladin in EverQuest and WoW, I don't feel like the tank was designed for other people to have fun. I particularly enjoyed it in both.

    The big question though is what is the end goal, how can tanks get the same satisfaction and moments of feeling badass that healers and DPS both get, and have been getting.
    I'll throw another aspect in the hat...

    Paladin's cover? That's an active "save your butt" ability that the tank makes use of. I think that sort of thing should be a bigger part of tank tool sets. I think a dream MMO should make it difficult for aggro to be locked down, frequently changing, and the tank having tools to protect his comrades rather than just "the mob hits the tank because the tank talks the best shit despite the swords and dagger digging into the mob's major organs from not-the-tank."

    Not that mobs should run around freely all the time. Tanks should be able to get and hold aggro, just not indefinitely and losing it should be an expected part of combat rather than a sign of a poor tank. When combat goes unexpected, the tank's tools of protecting others should be their strength.

    I do like the concept of more active block/parry as well, but signaling a tank when to use those would be a nightmare, I think.

    As it is now, though? I've seen tanks solo 20-30% of a boss themselves and it hasn't taken forever and a day. If you bump tanks up into basically "they're pure DPS, but with better defense, tank buster immunity cool downs, and less need for healing" levels, then eventually what's the point of a damage dealing class? Take 1 healer and tanks and call it a day. Plus, in the process, you've erased any identity of a tank by simply making them a pure DPS with some tank-like abilities (again, an option, if you like Guild Wars 2 design).

    Sadly, part of the problem is the players have demanded MMOs become contained theme park rides and that kills a lot of the tank's chance for heroism. You mentioned EverQuest, so I'll relate a story from there...

    "Train to Zone" = "Tank's chance to shine."
    I remember playing in an area on Faydwer, but I don't recall the zone, though it may have been Unrest. We had a train come on us with two groups ahead of it racing for the zone line. I remember frantically typing out for everyone to run and managing to pick up a number of them. Our cleric ran a ways back and threw some buffs and heals on me, then ran. I picked up everything I could and like a proper tank, I HELD...THE...LINE! I got enough things off them, held them back, and allowed not only my party to escape, but most of the other two as well. I fell, of course, but everyone else survived. They zoned back in and rezzed me, but it was appreciated by the other two parties who lost their tanks down below.

    Those sort of "save everyone" moments are harder to come by in worlds where mobs are on short leashes and the danger of trains, or being swarmed by enemies, is basically non-existent by design due to response from player complaints about that exact design. We complain about worlds not being dangerous, but it's largely because we demanded they be that way for our own convenience.

    I'm getting off on an urelated tangent, so I'll end it there...

    Just saying to remain aware of "this sounds fun" can't result in "tanks are godmode, nothing else is unnecessary" when brainstorming dream designs.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2017-07-13 at 06:15 PM.

  7. #37167
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    The point of my design idea is to make tanking more engaging to me. It isn't meant to be a catch all for the huge appeal, but rather a method of forcing us away from tradition. Because tradition has gotten stale for me. To be fair maybe MMOS just aren't my thing anymore, it's just a shame I can't play an ideal game with other people cooperatively. No Mmo has managed to fulfill what I would enjoy for tanking, but some of them have pieces of the overall design. All it would take is someone to simply get out of the old mentality that states that tab target combat is the only way to make the trinity work. I've seen what happens when you get rid of the Holy trinity. Character class archetypes disappear, PvE is virtually nonexistent and everyone winds up doing the exact same thing with different colors. I'll always lament BDO for following the same droll formula that every single action mmo has: Unbalanced, boring, bottling pvp.

  8. #37168
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    The big question though is what is the end goal, how can tanks get the same satisfaction and moments of feeling badass that healers and DPS both get, and have been getting.
    With the current model of combat, that's quite difficult to pull off without overloading tanks to the point they're a complicated mess of buttons and cooldowns. Any model with more action orentated combat removes a lot of the buttons, but really does ramp up the pressure on people wanting to play the role.

    I think the answer may lie outside the MMO space. To propose something radically different - What if MMO's lifted Tanking mechanics from Fighting Games?

    What if your tank played like Ryu from Street Fighter, for example? On face value it seems absurd, but digging into it, Ryu's basic skill set shares lots of similarites with a typical tank. He can block almost all attacks, can quickly parry to launch a counter attack and is nimble enough to evade projectile fire. The cost to all of this is that he is unable to attack at the same time, you're forced to choose when to defend and when you attack.

    When it comes to offensive options, Ryu has his basic selection of punches and kicks. Generally quick to perform, with minimal risk attached to them if they're blocked by your opponent. With a little practice, you can combo some of your basic attacks together for added effect. It gets interesting when you consider his special moves though. Both his Shoryuken and Tatsu are extremely rewarding to land, but can be punished just as harshly if used poorly. The Hadouken is also very telegraphed and is easy to react to, so using it well is paramount if you don't want to get a flying kick to the head.

    The final part to this is Ryu being able to combo his special moves from his normal attacks. This allows you to help mitigate some of the risks associated with using them, since a basic attack getting blocked isn't the end of the world.

    Applying this to an MMO would create a paradigm where:
    • You could defend or attack. Not both together.
    • You could take small risks with "Basic Attacks" for small gains.
    • You could take larger risks with your "Special Moves" for a much bigger pay off.
    • There was a solid mastery curve, where you could work on reducing the time you need to spend defending.
    • Mastery in being able to improve your offence, first by learning to combo your "Basic Attacks" then by leading into your harder hitting "Special Moves" with less risk.

    I appologise to anyone who has never played Street Fighter. I tried to keep this simple but it may well come off as a pile of gibberish. NOTE that I'm not advocating having to input your attacks in a style similar to fighting games here. Just that, perhaps, Fighting games have some design choices we can incorporate.

  9. #37169
    Welp, got CRP and BOT to 70, just FSH for gatherers and then maybe CUL or LWR.

    BEAST TRIBES WHEN YOSHI?!?

  10. #37170

  11. #37171
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Well got red mage to 70 guess white mage is next and then blue mage. OH WAIT

    Anyway I get a stacking exp bonus for every 70 I have right?
    No, the Armory Bonus is a straight bonus for any job you have that is lower level than your maximum, it does not stack.

    From 1-60 it's 100% and from 60-70 it's 50% IIRC.

  12. #37172
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    I think Tera has some of the best tanking ever done in an MMO... at least from the little experience I have, which is like... 1 month worth of some hours / day.

    You can actively dodge "auto attacks" and boss skills with invincibility frames and dodge rolls (Warrior) or raise your shield to block the important attacks (paladin).
    That's how tanking should be done imho.
    Passive Block/parry etc. like in FFXIV is so boring, that's just stats, not gameplay.
    A Samurai/Blackmage in Paladin gear could do the same thing.
    Unfortunately my WAR in Tera only made it to level 20 or so before I got bored. It wasn't a bad game, but I remember just not clicking. I think I expected more from it, but at the time I had played C9 and I felt that type of content was done better there.

    That said, this is basically the same system Blade and Soul uses to quite a good amount of success. I will stand by my statement that Blade and Soul to this day has by far the best combat system in any MMO ever. You have tons of defensive moves to block "autos", you have evasion skills to iframe the big attacks and a plethora of offensive and utilty skills that actually see use.

    Q would be the default hotkey for defense skills. It has a 2s cooldown and is off the GCD and has a fast animation. PLD would raise his shield, WAR could dodge, and DRK could parry. Maybe have a gauge tied to it. basic attacks deplete it a little bit, tankbusters deplete it a lot. If you deplete the entire gauge maybe you get stunned/vuln stack. This type of gameplay could be designed to influence more organic tank swaps. I.e. OT sees defense bar is low, taunts off, etc. Not to mention the ability to build skills off this resource and use/spend it. Reward tanks for good use of defense too to incentivize mitigating that damage.

    I also wouldn't be opposed to a roll move either that all classes had as a simple 1 touch iframe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I had several other ideas beyond "Just dodge", for tanks. I'd take a little of the gameplay from dark souls with parry/riposte as a mechanic. Not every attack would be parry-able, but those that you did would have a different riposte "effect", so to speak. What if, after a successfully timed parry, you could riposte using a specific skill. Using that skill would reduce its cooldown or make its effect stronger depending on the attack you parried from the boss. It would add decision making to the skill of knowing what to parry and when. Using the model for paladin tanks in say, WoW, you could stack shields on yourself. The idea here is, tanks having intimate knowledge of boss mechanics would be pushed to the forefront rather than being an afterthought.

    Ultimately I would untie tanks from needing healers outside of specific tank "busters" like FFXIV. Most of them would focus on the raid and people doing specific jobs during an encounter. These are all early thoughts and are easier to visualize than to put to text right now.
    See above for some insight. I will say I am not opposed to uncoupling healers from tanks and shifting that responsibility to tanks, but I'm also not 100% sold its a good approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Paladin's cover? That's an active "save your butt" ability that the tank makes use of. I think that sort of thing should be a bigger part of tank tool sets. I think a dream MMO should make it difficult for aggro to be locked down, frequently changing, and the tank having tools to protect his comrades rather than just "the mob hits the tank because the tank talks the best shit despite the swords and dagger digging into the mob's major organs from not-the-tank."

    Not that mobs should run around freely all the time. Tanks should be able to get and hold aggro, just not indefinitely and losing it should be an expected part of combat rather than a sign of a poor tank. When combat goes unexpected, the tank's tools of protecting others should be their strength.
    Agreed wholeheartedly. I really wish this was a bigger aspect of MMO gaming in the holy trinity realm. I actually think its one of the more archaic systems that still exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I do like the concept of more active block/parry as well, but signaling a tank when to use those would be a nightmare, I think.
    Nah not that hard. Imagine the one boss. two hands on mace = pbaoe spin move, 1 hand line aoe smash, etc. Use the animations as tells rather than the telegraphs. Or use the Blade and Soul System. Normal mode shows telegraphs, hard mode doesn't. Let's use Susano as an example. He lifts the sword above his head, you know to prep. Honestly don't even need a cast bar visible. P1? You know if he pulls the sword to his side to prep. More stuff like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    As it is now, though? I've seen tanks solo 20-30% of a boss themselves and it hasn't taken forever and a day. If you bump tanks up into basically "they're pure DPS, but with better defense, tank buster immunity cool downs, and less need for healing" levels, then eventually what's the point of a damage dealing class? Take 1 healer and tanks and call it a day. Plus, in the process, you've erased any identity of a tank by simply making them a pure DPS with some tank-like abilities (again, an option, if you like Guild Wars 2 design).
    There are some ideas to mitigate this. You can make it so a tank can do high sustained DPS, but have no burst. Give DPS burst CD's etc. that allow them to spike 50-100% more damage, and have them sit at sit at like 90% of tank damage outside of cooldowns. This means that sure tanks do more DPS at a basic level, but they lack the ability to pass burst checks. This way you can put more burst checks in (via adds, mechanics, etc.). This way if you look at it over the course of a fight the tanks did 85% of the DPS damage, but that damage only contributed to the checks at like a 60% rate due to cooldowns. If that makes ANY sense. I could be explaining this poorly.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    With the current model of combat, that's quite difficult to pull off without overloading tanks to the point they're a complicated mess of buttons and cooldowns. Any model with more action orentated combat removes a lot of the buttons, but really does ramp up the pressure on people wanting to play the role.

    I think the answer may lie outside the MMO space. To propose something radically different - What if MMO's lifted Tanking mechanics from Fighting Games?

    What if your tank played like Ryu from Street Fighter, for example? On face value it seems absurd, but digging into it, Ryu's basic skill set shares lots of similarites with a typical tank. He can block almost all attacks, can quickly parry to launch a counter attack and is nimble enough to evade projectile fire. The cost to all of this is that he is unable to attack at the same time, you're forced to choose when to defend and when you attack.

    When it comes to offensive options, Ryu has his basic selection of punches and kicks. Generally quick to perform, with minimal risk attached to them if they're blocked by your opponent. With a little practice, you can combo some of your basic attacks together for added effect. It gets interesting when you consider his special moves though. Both his Shoryuken and Tatsu are extremely rewarding to land, but can be punished just as harshly if used poorly. The Hadouken is also very telegraphed and is easy to react to, so using it well is paramount if you don't want to get a flying kick to the head.

    The final part to this is Ryu being able to combo his special moves from his normal attacks. This allows you to help mitigate some of the risks associated with using them, since a basic attack getting blocked isn't the end of the world.

    Applying this to an MMO would create a paradigm where:
    • You could defend or attack. Not both together.
    • You could take small risks with "Basic Attacks" for small gains.
    • You could take larger risks with your "Special Moves" for a much bigger pay off.
    • There was a solid mastery curve, where you could work on reducing the time you need to spend defending.
    • Mastery in being able to improve your offence, first by learning to combo your "Basic Attacks" then by leading into your harder hitting "Special Moves" with less risk.

    I appologise to anyone who has never played Street Fighter. I tried to keep this simple but it may well come off as a pile of gibberish. NOTE that I'm not advocating having to input your attacks in a style similar to fighting games here. Just that, perhaps, Fighting games have some design choices we can incorporate.
    I'm an avid FGC fan so this is right up my alley. Unfortunately, I feel like a parrot for saying this, but this is literally Blade and Souls combat system in a nutshell.

    If you look further up I covered some ways to make tanking a bit more action oriented (and it fits your theme of no offense when defense kinda thing).
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2017-07-13 at 09:30 PM.

  13. #37173
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    With the current model of combat, that's quite difficult to pull off without overloading tanks to the point they're a complicated mess of buttons and cooldowns. Any model with more action orentated combat removes a lot of the buttons, but really does ramp up the pressure on people wanting to play the role.

    I think the answer may lie outside the MMO space. To propose something radically different - What if MMO's lifted Tanking mechanics from Fighting Games?

    What if your tank played like Ryu from Street Fighter, for example? On face value it seems absurd, but digging into it, Ryu's basic skill set shares lots of similarites with a typical tank. He can block almost all attacks, can quickly parry to launch a counter attack and is nimble enough to evade projectile fire. The cost to all of this is that he is unable to attack at the same time, you're forced to choose when to defend and when you attack.

    When it comes to offensive options, Ryu has his basic selection of punches and kicks. Generally quick to perform, with minimal risk attached to them if they're blocked by your opponent. With a little practice, you can combo some of your basic attacks together for added effect. It gets interesting when you consider his special moves though. Both his Shoryuken and Tatsu are extremely rewarding to land, but can be punished just as harshly if used poorly. The Hadouken is also very telegraphed and is easy to react to, so using it well is paramount if you don't want to get a flying kick to the head.

    The final part to this is Ryu being able to combo his special moves from his normal attacks. This allows you to help mitigate some of the risks associated with using them, since a basic attack getting blocked isn't the end of the world.

    Applying this to an MMO would create a paradigm where:
    • You could defend or attack. Not both together.
    • You could take small risks with "Basic Attacks" for small gains.
    • You could take larger risks with your "Special Moves" for a much bigger pay off.
    • There was a solid mastery curve, where you could work on reducing the time you need to spend defending.
    • Mastery in being able to improve your offence, first by learning to combo your "Basic Attacks" then by leading into your harder hitting "Special Moves" with less risk.

    I appologise to anyone who has never played Street Fighter. I tried to keep this simple but it may well come off as a pile of gibberish. NOTE that I'm not advocating having to input your attacks in a style similar to fighting games here. Just that, perhaps, Fighting games have some design choices we can incorporate.
    I'm a fan. TERA uses a system kind of like this, where you have to be very strategic with your attack choices or whether you should attack at all and full on defend instead. The Brawler is a little different and uses a more "the best defense is a good offense" type thing where you need to practically always be attacking and instead use specific moves at the right time because they had a built in defense mechanic that mitigated damage and doing this well resulted in your rage gauge filling faster which enables you to use your big hitters (a potent HoT or a wicked multi-hit combo).

    The main difference though here, and it's something pretty huge, there is no auto-attack in TERA from either the character or the enemies, which would make integrating a design like that into a game with auto-attack kind of tricky. Additionally, TERA has no telegraphs (or very few) like in FFXIV where's it's plastered all over the arena, it's more like the second boss of Sohm Al Hard where you just have to watch the enemy attacks, posturing, etc... to determine what you should be doing. I'd love that for tanking where you have to pay more attention to the enemies and react accordingly. That would be a relatively subtle but profound change to tanking, at least for bosses, I'm not sure how that would work in packs.

  14. #37174
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Welp, got CRP and BOT to 70, just FSH for gatherers and then maybe CUL or LWR.

    BEAST TRIBES WHEN YOSHI?!?
    After many boring hours of making HQ ingots, Armorer finally 70. Now I've BSM, ARM and MIN at cap - just leaves one last specialist out (GSM), but I'll probably need to go for CRP and BTN since I need lumber for my tools.

    And random Otter picture.


  15. #37175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    <snip>
    That fire place doe :thinking:

  16. #37176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    That fire place doe :thinking:
    After all the crappy sticker placements, I've nothing against it.

  17. #37177
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post

    See above for some insight. I will say I am not opposed to uncoupling healers from tanks and shifting that responsibility to tanks, but I'm also not 100% sold its a good approach.
    The idea is, to uncouple that relationship enough that tanks feel like they're capable of handling enemies on their own when no one else can, not creating this binary relationship where they feel like they're missing their other half when solo. To this day, my favorite time tanking EVER in WoW was during Siege of Orgrimmar on my paladin. I recall doing Spoils of Pandaria with a pug and the healers very rarely having to heal me. It was a fine line though, because I could have died at any point but I was confident enough in both the way I was playing and my damage intake that I could reliably keep myself alive without heavily relying on healers. This allowed them to focus almost entirely on the rest of the group. My ability to play well meant that the burden of responsibility was taken off the shoulders of healers, and it felt incredible. I miss that, and it's a shame that, through the actions of people who don't understand or agree with that style of gameplay, we weren't given a choice on how to move forward and tanks in that game have never felt the same since. I want to see something like that done again, but with a little more ingenuity.

  18. #37178
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    I do agree that currently tanks feel a little helpless w/o a healer.
    I get the same feeling when playing DPS with crap gear though.

    Guess playing 10 years with a hybrid (SPriest) damaged me in that regard.

  19. #37179
    That's one of the things I love about POTD, you're not beholden to a tank or a healer to complete it, I wish more content was like that. But I get that people like the trinity role thing, and I'm generally in favor of inclusion.

  20. #37180
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    That fire place doe :thinking:
    "Friendship with wind up cheerleader over, otter is my new best friend"

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