Do you still like Warcraft lore?

[Zatachi]

Her plot armour might not be unbreakable but it's still made of high tier bullshitium. She took a direct hit to the head from an angry 8 foot wall of muscle and claws and shrugged it off like it was nothing.

I enjoy the lore but I feel that MMOs aren't the most conducive vehicle for storytelling. There are so many areas of the world that absolutely must stay the same for the sake of our characters. Races can't change sides, capital cities can't be destroyed, the faction war can't end or appreciably escalate, etc. I feel the story would be so much better without these constraints.

Ok, ok here comes a bit of Warcraft Physics into play.

Sylvanas is a very powerful undead being, so getting hit by a worgen should not be very hard on her.

I mean humans can deflect Orc blows, its not that farfetched. Power and durability is more like on super hero level than "normal".
May i remind you he took a poisened arrow in the chest (maybe she should have aimed at the knee?) and last i know hes pretty ok. Correct me here if im wrong.


On topic:

In general im still interestet but yeah, the Alliance/Horde conflict is the biggest fuck up. It hinders good storytelling since vanilla.
Also its absolutely against the build up of every addon wich is won by working together over the factions.
Like someone said its a jacket old and worn and three numbers to small yet we still wear it.

[Techno-Druid]

I really just wish World of Warcraft...went back to being about the world. In Vanilla you were being introduced to a living, breathing world, not a continent or an island. You could explore and level in the Eastern Kingdoms or Kalimdor and interact with various races that never seemed forgotten, even if it was old content.

Cataclysm tried to revamp the world, but they ended up destroying a lot of places dear to player's and all and all taking the characters in strange directions.

The characters are another problem I've had, in Vanilla you were one in a world of many, you had superiors and characters who went through the same struggles you went through.

Although it could just be rose-tinted glasses...

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

Ok, ok here comes a bit of Warcraft Physics into play.

Sylvanas is a very powerful undead being, so getting hit by a worgen should not be very hard on her.

I mean humans can deflect Orc blows, its not that farfetched. Power and durability is more like on super hero level than "normal".
May i remind you he took a poisened arrow in the chest (maybe she should have aimed at the knee?) and last i know hes pretty ok. Correct me here if im wrong.

That one arrow took him out of the fight immediately, he could barely get up and he was staggering afterwards. That's how you'd expect a real life person to react to an arrow in the chest/shoulder.

Meanwhile Sylvanas takes the equivalent of a sledgehammer blow to the head/shoulder and shrugs it off.

I can accept cartoon physics but not when it's wildly inconsistent within the same scene.

[Deleted]

Ever since Garrosh got removed as warchief it is going downhill in my opinion.
I am just interested in the Horde tho.

[Stardrift]

I don't like the lore because Blizz never went with my headcanons
-Everyone that took the third option

[Deleted]

That one arrow took him out of the fight immediately, he could barely get up and he was staggering afterwards. That's how you'd expect a real life person to react to an arrow in the chest/shoulder.

Meanwhile Sylvanas takes the equivalent of a sledgehammer blow to the head/shoulder and shrugs it off.

I can accept cartoon physics but not when it's wildly inconsistent within the same scene.

That's kind of what the undead do...
There is a reason after all why Garrosh insisted on using them on the front-line.

They can be killed, but they don't really feel pain. (at least not the physical one)

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

There is a reason after all why Garrosh insisted on using them on the front-line.

I thought that was because he considered them expendable.

Anyway, I still cannot accept that a flimsy elf woman, albeit an undead one, can simply tank a direct blow from a giant, angry wolf man and then continue on to beat him in a hand to hand fight without an ass load of plot armour.

Just look at the way he just pauses and lets her get up, draw her bow and take aim at him after he slaps her across the room. That's plot induced stupidity if I ever saw it.

[Notshauna]

I don't like the lore because Blizz never went with my headcanons
-Everyone that took the third option

I mean it could also be that a lot of it is pretty bad. I mean infinite timelines for everyone except for demons because reasons also they are immortal is pretty much a perfect example of bad writing.

On Topic: What do you mean by lore, do you mean the world building and setting or do you mean the narrative or do you mean the story as whole include characterization? Because I still love the world building and setting, but the direction the story and characters have taken is well and truly awful. Blizzard has always struggled at telling complex stories and in characterization, but it's becoming more and more clear they're running out of ideas. Still great at world building though, which is just about the only reason why I care at all.

[Thoughtcrime]

I don't like the lore because Blizz never went with my headcanons
-Everyone that took the third option

Ridiculous. The lore they created has just been shit. I am not emotionally invested at all in the Warcraft lore because it's an uncompelling mess with not enough interesting characters to be invested in. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single one that was introduced in World of Warcraft, and the development of characters from the RTS has been more times than not - appalling. Also, they released a book less than 18 months ago with the sole intention of codifying and making sense of the disparate, unexplained and contradictory aspects of the series' story and are looking likely to start retconning aspects of it in the next patch.

So no, I don't like the lore and when it comes to WoW I never have. They took a derivative premise and (to me it seems) accidentally told a good story with an interesting antagonist back in WC3. They could have developed that into something special but they don't have good enough writers, so instead of developing anything they ran with what they had for 12 years and now that they're starting to exhaust the RTS threads they chose the worst path possible of escalating threats instead of developing characters that we give a crap about. Which is fine for gameplay, but shit for story telling.

[Azerox]

Yes... Regardless of how MUCH I like it, I'm kind of invested in it so have an interest in where it's going and what we do. That said, I am currently enjoying the story, even if it does fill a lot of tropes.

This.

10chars

[Evangeliste]

I do like it a lot but the issue lies with their story-telling. They sometimes deliver so bad really that you can't quite understand the angle given in the game. For example Garrosh was probably made to be like Arthas but the problem was they didn't really make it that interesting just this Orc who just wanted perfection and went overboard with Pride.

Personally, I would have gone with the inner struggles - you had an amazing premise with Garrosh having daddy issues, Grom bought dishonour to them and tainted them forever - it ties in nicely then with him and Thrall fighting in Nagrand - his father's doomed legacy though the exchange between them could be a tad different but Garrosh could still blame Thrall because the Warchief mantle was given to Garrosh, and after clearing his mind from leaving Pandaria could see he became his father and only happened because he was given the opportunity to be Warchief.

It would unique to him, it would add a human-like element and a different spin on the whole possession thing and make the Sha more believable in that an Old God didn't wholly influence Garrosh beyond the grave but rather he influenced himself under illusions of grandeur.
Would be nice for a character to have open display of inward struggles that eventually burst outward in a frantic delusion of finding his own leadership, trying to correct a wrong from his father's looming shadow, trying to elevate the Orcs past that, eventually believing that he had and thus that superior complex of his Orcs that in the end alienated the rest of the Horde. He started to see that the Horde were turning on him and he needed to exercise power and rule over them - doing silly things and getting some backlash he started to think he needed more power to demoralise his Horde counterparts and bring them to heel. Unfortunately for him he saw as the rest of the Horde's distaste, they resorted to getting joint help with Alliance and then Pandaren - being quite a task to face all 3 together, he came this delusional realisation that Grom's original idealogy of having power was right but demon blood wasn't the true course, it was the Sha and Garrosh sought to embrace it. He wanted to use it against his enemies and exert his authority at the same time using Orgrimmar as his base and battleground. He became a threat to Azeroth by his own intentions of using a dead Old God.

None of that was really played out, it feels like he lost sight of how to do things, couldn't handle the pressure and fell prey to a dead Old God.

They miss opportunities to make things different from each other and anew, even if they use a similar premise, they don't seek to really write it uniquely to the individual and make the various villains have differences. Garrosh empowered by an Old God wouldn't be as strong as legion but that's ok, even threats are home are still threats.

[Deleted]

Certain number of layered retcons does leave a bad taste indeed.

[Highwhale]

I used to. Since WoW become MMO its start dumping down and butchered in flavor of Alliance/Horde.

[Snuffe]

It was my favorit lore, untill they turned all great lore characters into loot bags.

[FreshKamel]

Played since WCIII, but I'm not one of the people who hate everything post-Arthas.
I absolutely LOVED the lore in MoP - it felt kinda "down to earth" and like things actually mattered.

I still think the universe is interesting and the lore itself is detailed and presented in a good way, but I personally despise how IMPORTANT everything has to be now.
The most important titan planet in the whole universe blah blah and Medivh and Illidan and everyone's alive and extremely powerful and humans from Azeroth lead the Army of the Light? Nahhhh.

I'm still invested in the lore, but don't like it as much. Wish stuff could be a liiiittle bit more "normal" even if it is a fantasy world.
Easiest way to summarize it would be that I care a lot about Azeroth (the planet) and stuff that goes on there, but I don't like it's importance to everything else anywhere ever.

[Aucald]

I thought that was because he considered them expendable.

Anyway, I still cannot accept that a flimsy elf woman, albeit an undead one, can simply tank a direct blow from a giant, angry wolf man and then continue on to beat him in a hand to hand fight without an ass load of plot armour.

Just look at the way he just pauses and lets her get up, draw her bow and take aim at him after he slaps her across the room. That's plot induced stupidity if I ever saw it.

The fight between Sylvanas and Genn was odd, I agree. But you have to remember that at the end of the day Sylvanas' physical form is really an affectation more than a critical component of her being - she is essentially an undead spirit inhabiting an enhanced corpse and moving it about through auspices of Necromancy. Similar to other Forsaken within the story she can shrug massive physical damage by virtue of being essentially biologically inert - no blood moves through her veins, so both lacerations and contusions would be of limited effect. The point that struck me most odd is that Genn's powerful blow to Sylvanas did no physical damage to her - if not limiting her mobility a bit it should've at least damaged her body. It would've been interesting to see her gather herself and see her face or chest torn or damaged by Genn's claws and in need of Necromantic repair.

I also think Genn seemed to shrug off Sylvanas' Black Arrow like a bee sting as he sauntered away from their encounter after having destroyed the relic Sylvanas was using to hold Eyir. I played the quests and saw the cinematic from the Horde side and its my understanding that Genn was quite injured afterward - which is something I think should've been replicated Horde-side with Sylvanas as well. Though if she were injured by the duel her pride might move her to hide it from the PC and her own people, unlike Genn.

[Teleros]

The question is do you still like Warcraft lore? Are you still interested in it? And if you do not, why?

For me it started going off the rails in WotLK when they gave Arthas that weird voice (at least when compared to him at the end of WC3:TFT). That was okay though - the rest of the expansion was pretty good, I felt.

Then came Cataclysm. The less said about that the better.

MoP was okay, if only because a lot of it was about exploring the new land and its inhabitants, but it had its moments. The retarded stuff about *having* to keep the Mantids & such around when splitting Pandaria from the rest of the land springs to mind, or the oh-so-simplistic manifestations of all the "bad" emotions, as if doubt and anger aren't justified.

Warlords took a huge steaming dump on the idea of orcs as an innocent race corrupted by the demons. Can't really add much more to this, so moving on.

Legion's messed up Illidan's story, and then there's all the stuff about Elune making the Naaru, revelations about the Pantheon & the Void Lords and such in the Chronicles books... meh. Oh, not to mention the datamined lines about Alleria becoming Miss Super-Shadow-Magic person seems awfully quick:

"We need shadow to balance light. Now, this goes against everything you've ever known or been taught, and your husband-"
"Where do I sign?"

[Captain Kennedy]

I still like it. I've been invested in this series for years ever since I played Warcraft 3. That said, I don't love the lore and story like I used to. However these are almost entirely for personal reasons, so there's some bias in them.

1. I don't like how the main characters of Warcraft 3 are currently being handled. This is more Legion specific, though I am a little disappointed some of them weren't more active throughout WoW's story. Legion is probably the worst offender though. Thrall is having a second mid life crisis. Jaina fucked off because they wanted to explain how they can reuse Dalaran as a neutral city. Tyrande has been heavily involved in the Emerald Nightmare and Suramar sub plots, but is absent from fighting the Legion, which she's done twice before. And on that note, where the flying fuck is Malfurion. He was instrumental in fighting the Legion off during the last two invasions. Why the fuck is he absent from the war effort? Well because the developers and writers can't be fucked dealing with a sibling reunion. Speaking of, I'm not a fan of Legion Illidan and his god damn retcons that he never really did anything wrong and was always hard done by.

Ultimately, it's just majorly disappointing that the story of the Burning Legion's return doesn't involve the major players the last time they invaded. Thrall, Jaina, Malfurion and Tyrande should have been on the Broken Shore in 7.2.

2. Afrasiabi's "One Legion across all timelines". I don't think I need to fully explain this given most of the forum has the same stance. It's just dumb, universe breaking and only took a couple of tweets shortly after announcing it for Afrasiabi to realise how many holes this has in it. At this point I just try to forget it exists and hope to fuck it gets retconned. This is the one point I'd like to believe has no real bias and is just Blizzard being idiots.

3. Dropped story lines. So everyone can agree that we all share a mutual frustration with the lack of a real conclusion to the Forsaken Vs Gilneas plot. Legion ended up worsening this by continuing that plot line yet utterly failed to move it forward in the slightest. Sure Sylvanas was going to a new extreme, but that only added to her story, not the overall Forsaken Vs Gilneas. Which lead to the Stormheim plot feeling like a major let down, given it seemed to finally offer some development of that storyline. Blizzard is guilty of dropping a number of plot threads but I think none stings me more than Wrathion.

Wrathion was a fresh of breath air for the Warcraft universe. He's not entirely original, but he's a welcome addition and brings something new to the table. WoW hasn't been able to offer many new major characters that are as interesting. They set him up for this big future. Plans changed with the release Warlords, but then they completely choked when it came to Legion. They did all this work to introduce and develop his character and then when things changed, they couldn't be bothered to work him in. I get this would have been harder to write due to changed circumstances, but not having him at all was clearly the worse alternative. It makes me not want to bother investing into new characters knowing that Blizzard will just drop them by the wayside whenever they're hit with a writing challenge.