Jedi, Sith or Grey Code?

[Maruka]

I would go with whom ever can still bang chicks legally.

[Selastan]

Oh, and grey jedi are canon. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

[Pony Soldier]

I don't think that anyone would really feel lonely when they feel the force surrounding them.

Hm, yeah, you have a point there.

[Gamdwelf]

Oh, and grey jedi are canon. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

You literally just posted the non cannon wiki page.

[Jshadowhunter]

This video makes Grey seems the right one.

[downnola]

The Empire did nothing wrong.

[Sorshen]

Oh, and grey jedi are canon. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

No, they're fucking not. Learn to read.

[PACOX]

just as grey code is bullshit for you, for me jedi code is retardedly one sided and not executable in practice..and thats why turn rate of jedi's to dark side are high..

The Jedi literally orchestrated their own downfall with their code and "holier than thou" attitude.

* They practically groom Anakin into becoming a Vader. Took him in but mistrusted him. He was boy used to his mother (most Padawans are taken before forming strong bonds with their parents) and needed support. He was full of normal teenage angst with no one to guide him (most padawans have been conditioned by Anakins age between TPM and AotC).

His mother was murdered, the Council offered little support. Then he was thrust into a galactic war as a young man. He did a lot of killing, saw a lot of good people die and again the Council offered little support. He was told to get stuff done, which he did well, but the Council never really warmed up to him - something any Jedi could sense. Obi-won was there for him at times but Obi-won was married to the Order. Guess who was mentoring him, providing emotional support, acknowledging Anakins drive and abilities? A GD Sith.

* The had grown lazy and hadn't evolved one the course of one thousand years. Martially weak, mentality lax, but just as arrogant. They had assurance that nobody could best them. They allowed themselves to become political agents. The were mentally cold and negligent when it came to dealing with their padawans. Failed to acknowledge the need to change their ways as the world changed around them. There were playing checkers while the Sith were playing chess.

[Nerovar]

The Jedi literally orchestrated their own downfall with their code and "holier than thou" attitude.

* They practically groom Anakin into becoming a Vader. Took him in but mistrusted him. He was boy used to his mother (most Padawans are taken before forming strong bonds with their parents) and needed support. He was full of normal teenage angst with no one to guide him (most padawans have been conditioned by Anakins age between TPM and AotC).

His mother was murdered, the Council offered little support. Then he was thrust into a galactic war as a young man. He did a lot of killing, saw a lot of good people die and again the Council offered little support. He was told to get stuff done, which he did well, but the Council never really warmed up to him - something any Jedi could sense. Obi-won was there for him at times but Obi-won was married to the Order. Guess who was mentoring him, providing emotional support, acknowledging Anakins drive and abilities? A GD Sith.

* The had grown lazy and hadn't evolved one the course of one thousand years. Martially weak, mentality lax, but just as arrogant. They had assurance that nobody could best them. They allowed themselves to become political agents. The were mentally cold and negligent when it came to dealing with their padawans. Failed to acknowledge the need to change their ways as the world changed around them. There were playing checkers while the Sith were playing chess.

They mainly failed because they started to ignore their own virtues (and because they were deceived by an incredibly powerful lord of the Sith). Do you think Anakin would have been as susceptible if the Jedi didn't start betraying their own code? It's not the code that is flawed. The code is merely a set of rules and an ideal if you will. How the Jedi live with these rules is their task and they failed horribly.

[Ianus]

They mainly failed because they started to ignore their own virtues (and because they were deceived by an incredibly powerful lord of the Sith). Do you think Anakin would have been as susceptible if the Jedi didn't start betraying their own code? It's not the code that is flawed. The code is merely a set of rules and an ideal if you will. How the Jedi live with these rules is their task and they failed horribly.

basically they were ignorant and got deceived cause only their teachings are true everyone else's teachings are temptation going to dark side, its just flawed

[Byne]

Light Sith is really the only way to go.

Relevant.

[arel00]

If you didn't answer Grey (as a philosophy, not necessarily as defined in that piece of code) then I have sad news for you people: you understood nothing of the movies. The whole point of the story is the balance of the Force and the problems and limitations that both the Sith and Jedi have.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The Empire did nothing wrong.

So you would choose slavery?

It is possible to entertain to fundamentally different values, while not subscribe one or either. The problem is although I would choose Sith in essence I understand why the rebels fight, it's because they want a choice, even if they aren't capable of always making the correct. This is to however a form of Insanity, but there it is because the Truth is the alternative is slavery.


Order = Slavery not just for those deem subjugated by it, but those all the way up, which can and does limit possibilities.

[Nerovar]

basically they were ignorant and got deceived cause only their teachings are true everyone else's teachings are temptation going to dark side, its just flawed

Whose teachings are you talking about when you say "everyone else"?

[Ianus]

Whose teachings are you talking about when you say "everyone else"?

everyone that are using force and have any kind of martial training..like "dont use emotions when you fight cause it brings on dark side or you will get overconfidence" so basically jedi's are saying their view of force is only true one which it isnt

- - - Updated - - -

Light Sith is really the only way to go.

Relevant.

you are comparing apsolutistic view of jedi and sith.. which are flawed from beginning..you can use the force light or dark way if you control your emotions and actions .. thats why grey jedis are superior...

There is no light or dark.. there is only force.. thats why force swings back and forth because through history only 1 side won and then other side wins because tends to be in middle, but because teachings are twisted and apsolutistic..it swings

[Alydael]

Most (all?) material written prior to 2014 are now considered "legends" rather than canon and, if memory serves me right, NJO came to an end in the early 2000s and Invasion in early 2010s. I think they were planning to be put the Yuuzhan Vong in an episode of The Clone Wars which could have laid the foundation of NJO coming in to play but then got cancelled. As of the writing of this article, these are what's considered official.

"and all novels beginning with A New Dawn are considered part of the new canonical continuity."

- Source

When those books were published, they were considered canon by Lucas. So, with that in mind, I still consider them as canon even if disney wants to change that (and even if Lucas agrees with disney now).

If you believe the press surrounding those books, Lucas met with a team of writers and they went over and over the storyline together to make sure that it matched his vision for the SW universe. I won't discard that for disney's purchase.

I consider those books (and the past stuff) "SW Original Universe"
I consider the stuff after the sale the "$W Universe"

Also, those new books can't even hold a candle to some of the old stuff. I actually stopped reading the second book in the trilogy. I have never stopped reading a star wars book and I almost never stop reading a book in general. Even if the book isn't the best, I read so fast it almost doesn't matter.

What I think Disney meant by "not canon" is that they don't intend to expand that series or allow that series of books to influence the new stuff in any way.

I did notice that Disney did republish those books though (cha- ching!) So, even if disney does not recognize them as canon- they recognize the value of them.

Everyone is going to have to make their own decision about what they consider canon in the now convoluted SW universe.

I personally consider the old stuff canon. For me: Jacen, Jaina, Anakin Solo > Khylo Ren

I almost look at the new SW stuff by Disney as an almost "alternate reality" version of SW. A "SW.... What if?" (quick fyi: Marvel made an "SW What if" and, if I remember right, it was good.)

I am glad that Disney bought SW though. At least we will get new SW stuff. It was kind of dead before that.

[Yvaelle]

The fourth option: Darth Traya.


"To believe in an ideal, is to be willing to betray it. It is something no Sith or Jedi has ever truly learned."

"Do you think I seek the death of all living things? There is no victory in such things. I do not want to win our war like this, little Jedi. When I win, I wish it to be because I was right, my teachings true."

"I cannot force you to listen to reason, only hope that you will grow past these infantile delusions of right and wrong."

"When one relies on sight to perceive the world, it is like trying to stare at the galaxy through a crack in the door."

"No, you simply did not learn the lesson I sought to teach. That your strength is as meaningless as the strength of my hand."

Throughout KOTOR 2, Kreia/Traya is preaching a different world view from the Grey Jedi - some fans liken her to a Grey Sith - but this is also incorrect. Traya's point is ultimately that we limit ourselves by developing overly simplistic codes to which we confine our actions - we limit our thinking, and our morality, and our potential.

Moral codes, to Traya, are like training wheels - they may help you learn to ride a bike before you learn to balance yourself, but ultimately you must remove the training wheels and learn to balance yourself. Morality parallels this progression - a moral code is useful if it begins you down a path, an ideology, but to gain a true understanding of morality you cannot restrict yourself to that ideology - you must betray it - you must find the nuanced decisions that undermine that morality: where it is weak, where it is wrong.

The only true morality is that which we build for ourselves, from the scraps of the others we have destroyed and discarded - and our customized ideology is as mercurial as our own learnings. The more we learn, the more disparate ideologies we can integrate, the more we can ultimately grow - if we trap ourselves in a singular ideology - no matter how good it is, or how superior it is to the other rigid alternatives - it will ultimately be incomplete until we build our own.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Light Sith is really the only way to go.

Relevant.

Unfortunately no, they aren't no such thing they might do things percieved to be good depending on who you are, but their core tenants are the dark side.

[Teleros]

Personally for me I say Sith the Jedi have a lot of lofty ideas noble, but honestly short sighted.

The Sith are just psychopathic idiots, to be blunt. If you need a "rule of two" because you just can't stop yourselves from killing each other... yeah I'm not sure you deserve to survive, quite honestly.

On the other hand, the Jedi are just hypocritical, stupid morons. Take Yoda's old line:

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

What do you fear, and why? What angers you, and why? What do you hate, and why?

For example, you're unarmed and with a hungry rancor or two charging at you. Deciding that, actually, you'd rather run away and live might be giving into fear, but it's also very sensible. The Jedi philosophy is basically emasculating in its approach to these issues - there's not really any room for nuance. Compare what Yoda has to say about these emotions with what the Bible does - I know which I'd prefer.

TL;DR version: Grey code for me.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

snippy snip.

The key to your first point is when those books were published. When he sold Lucasfilm to Disney he relinquished all rights to the film. It's like if you buy a car from me, you're well within your right to tear off all the bumper sticks and decals because it's now your property. In this case, Disney stripped everything but the core series to help unify the story rather than have it fragmented in contradictions and continuity errors. This is why they have the Lucasfilm Story Group which is dedicated towards deciding what is and isn't canon. It's great that Lucas cooperated with those who wrote within the EU to make a more cohesive universe but it boils down to accommodating an outside story which Disney was not interested in. They only wanted the meat and potatoes so that they could then fall back on and cherry pick what works at a time best suited which is why Thrawn is being reintroduced.

It's not a matter of "$W Universe" either. I knew this would come up sooner or later because, in spite of now being the owner and dictating what is and isn't considered canon, there's this weird idea since it's Disney that we're within our right to refute what they say because "it's Disney". Lucas probably made an ungodly amount of bank off nickle and diming Star Wars (enough to sell it for 4 billion dollars anyway) but one is outrageous and other represents the good'ole days.

As far as all the canon is concerned, there's a reason the material released prior to 2014 is labelled as "legends". They're there, the stories exist on paper but they have no canonical impact in the universe to be used as a reference unless Disney wants them back. I guarantee a lot of people don't like it but the fact of the matter is is that the only people who are turning what should be a unified Star Wars universe in to a convoluted mess are those who ignore Disney because, again, "it's Disney" and refuse to accept that this is no longer a product of George Lucas. I hate it because my boy Revan and KotoR in general are basically stuck in the Phantom Zone but I have faith that, at some point, he'll be officially brought back. I mean, he sort of has to be since Darth Bane is canon...

It's messy, to be sure, but since Disney is adamant about pushing a new Star Wars movie every year I'm willing to bet that in ten years we'll have the entire EU reintroduced in one way or another.

Fuck I really hate the word canon now. I need a vacation from this thread.