Tomb of Sargeras Progression Thread

[Deleted]

You can tell Method is nowhere near killing it cos fragnance posted here like 10 times today

[Shingaru]

As somebody watching the world first race - have to say even though KJ might be so brutally overtuned/ bugged or whatever- one thing that has happened is that these Chinese guys caught up and streamed it. And it's being watched by a lot of players. Many memes etc coming from progression. It's a talking point for the community. We don't have to guess 24/7 and wait for wowprogress to announce the winner. Hopefully the methods and the other top guilds might follow suit. The fact we can watch streams makes the race so much more enjoyable. Top guilds have been asking blizzard to make the wf race more important but the usual waiting around for 1-2 weeks and refreshing wowprogressing isn't something they would to market because its frankly not as exciting as watching streams.

I really hope the top guilds can look past a guild might steal your ideas and tactics to make the race way more enjoyable for the rest of the world.

My two cents.

[trm90]

1. The knockback was decreased by # of people soaking and you could control where you went, so it was clear how you deal with it and it wasn't a thing that prevented you from doing other mechanics. This was almost entirely personal responsibility and people could solo soak these.

2. The tank pushback was a non-issue if you swapped to targets, and didn't overlap if your raid didn't just ignore it.

3. The infernals came in and did an AoE so you were already spread, and their healing was a non-issue if people prioritized the one closest to them. It definitely wasn't a giant clusterfuck unless your raid was totally retarded.

4. The seeker orbs were incredibly slow and died in like 2 GCDs. If you got hit by these it's because the entire raid ignored them and they had like 10 seconds to speed up.

What's going on in this fight was nothing like Archimonde. You weren't being pingponged around the map so you can't do mechanics while needing to deal with heavy DoT effects and positioning for soaks (both a line and shit on the ground), requiring near constant movement. You had so much time to get in your groups for the knockback, you had so much time to dodge shit on the ground (and it didn't really overlap ever with things you couldn't deal with), you had so much room to drop orbs, you had so much time to kill stars, you had so much time to kill infernals. It actually seemed like they put some thought into the idea that you'd actually do the mechanics.

This just seems like they took an idea for the fight, threw it into the encounter, then ignored it until Method got to it and decided to start polishing it then, and even now it looks like a giant clusterfuck of terrible design.

It is still possible to do KJ mechanics while you get knocked around, you are grossly over-exaggerating the mechanics. As a raid you have different combinations of souls, singularities, and armaggedon and that's it. FYI the raid can literally stand for 10 secs at a time during the Erupting souls until people start pooping out orbs. Plus, how can you not like the reverse grip dispel mechanic, it's cool af.

[durrtygoodz]

As somebody watching the world first race - have to say even though KJ might be so brutally overtuned/ bugged or whatever- one thing that has happened is that these Chinese guys caught up and streamed it. And it's being watched by a lot of players. Many memes etc coming from progression. It's a talking point for the community. We don't have to guess 24/7 and wait for wowprogress to announce the winner. Hopefully the methods and the other top guilds might follow suit. The fact we can watch streams makes the race so much more enjoyable. Top guilds have been asking blizzard to make the wf race more important but the usual waiting around for 1-2 weeks and refreshing wowprogressing isn't something they would to market because its frankly not as exciting as watching streams.

I really hope the top guilds can look past a guild might steal your ideas and tactics to make the race way more enjoyable for the rest of the world.

My two cents.

The top CN guild killed Avatar 7 days after Method, raiding the same hours. They're in completely different leagues. Method won't start streaming because a second rate guild is doing it.

[CloudedInSanity]

1. The knockback was decreased by # of people soaking and you could control where you went, so it was clear how you deal with it and it wasn't a thing that prevented you from doing other mechanics. This was almost entirely personal responsibility and people could solo soak these.

2. The tank pushback was a non-issue if you swapped to targets, and didn't overlap if your raid didn't just ignore it.

3. The infernals came in and did an AoE so you were already spread, and their healing was a non-issue if people prioritized the one closest to them. It definitely wasn't a giant clusterfuck unless your raid was totally retarded.

4. The seeker orbs were incredibly slow and died in like 2 GCDs. If you got hit by these it's because the entire raid ignored them and they had like 10 seconds to speed up.

What's going on in this fight was nothing like Archimonde. You weren't being pingponged around the map so you can't do mechanics while needing to deal with heavy DoT effects and positioning for soaks (both a line and shit on the ground), requiring near constant movement. You had so much time to get in your groups for the knockback, you had so much time to dodge shit on the ground (and it didn't really overlap ever with things you couldn't deal with), you had so much room to drop orbs, you had so much time to kill stars, you had so much time to kill infernals. It actually seemed like they put some thought into the idea that you'd actually do the mechanics.

This just seems like they took an idea for the fight, threw it into the encounter, then ignored it until Method got to it and decided to start polishing it then, and even now it looks like a giant clusterfuck of terrible design.

I'm not saying they are similar fights. I'm saying when you describe a boss like this it sounds as fucking retarded as it did, the same it would when you applied it to any other boss.


Also, you are making it sound way more complicated then it is. It's Soaking Puddles + people that get the AoE spread. Followed by a series of knockbacks where the raid must communicate where to stand. Then you have a short break in which you can heal as well as get in position for the Dreadflame and position for the next series of knockbacks. Then after that you have a break again for ~8s where you can heal and prepare for the last Armageddon into Dreadflame. This phase is no different from heroic except it has longer periods between Armageddon Waves and Dreadflame, and an added "dance" phase. If anything maybe the damage is too high, but the actual mechanics themselves are quite good. It requires great communication and coordination between your raid. I'm really not sure what your problem is. "Oh no, hard mechanics that require coordination, how stupid of Blizzard."

[Rafoel]

The top CN guild killed Avatar 7 days after Method, raiding the same hours. They're in completely different leagues. Method won't start streaming because a second rate guild is doing it.

Bro pls.

In Cata it was unthinkable for top 100 guild to stream.
In MoP it was unthinkable for top 20 guild to tream.
In WoD it was unthinkable for top 5 guild to stream.
Now we have nr 3 guild streaming progress...

2 more xpacs and you will see WF guild on twitch. The process is unstoppable.

[durrtygoodz]

Bro pls.

In Cata it was unthinkable for top 100 guild to stream.
In MoP it was unthinkable for top 20 guild to tream.
In WoD it was unthinkable for top 5 guild to stream.
Now we have nr 3 guild streaming progress...

2 more xpacs and you will see WF guild on twitch. The process is unstoppable.

When the CN streamer guilds get on the level of Method I can see them giving in. Maybe.

[Shingaru]

I'm just trying to say if the top guilds streamed it would make the race more appealing to the masses. Thus, more marketable.

[Netherblood]

Bro pls.

In Cata it was unthinkable for top 100 guild to stream.
In MoP it was unthinkable for top 20 guild to tream.
In WoD it was unthinkable for top 5 guild to stream.
Now we have nr 3 guild streaming progress...

2 more xpacs and you will see WF guild on twitch. The process is unstoppable.

Chinese were streaming SoO in MoP, I remember watching Thok stream before any video was released, Chinese guilds have streamed their progress for a while now, most people just didn't know about it.

[nebula]

Chinese were streaming SoO in MoP, I remember watching Thok stream before any video was released, Chinese guilds have streamed their progress for a while now, most people just didn't know about it.

Pretty much, CN just doesn't give a fuck. Stars and Style War also streamed progression.

[Mascotte]

Chinese were streaming SoO in MoP, I remember watching Thok stream before any video was released, Chinese guilds have streamed their progress for a while now, most people just didn't know about it.

Well watching streams back then in general wasn't as big as it is now; and CN servers still had inflated ilvls due to shorter lockouts right?

[Netherblood]

Well watching streams back then in general wasn't as big as it is now; and CN servers still had inflated ilvls due to shorter lockouts right?

in SoO, they just had higher illvl on their gear or something but bosses also had 8% more hp. In the end it came out to be that bosses were a little easier for them I think. They weren't considered part of the race though because obviously their loot system was different and bosses had different HP values.

[Reloe]

I think back in SoO korean/chinese servers had different lockouts on 10man/25man, 2resets per week & 25man would drop like 8itemlvl higher items than 10man or smth but therefor 25man bosses had more hp. In the end they probably still had a gear advantage yea

[Lockula]

Another thing to think about with streaming the WF race from the top guilds. It would quell a bit of any accusations of cheating, or doing something that would be considered not good to get a kill.

[Deleted]

Prediction: KJ down on page 296

Are you boys ready for the kill?

[Sanctioned]

You guys are really doing some mental gymnastics here. It's plain and simple. They don't stream progression because they don't want to give away tactics. Guild A could be using a different raid placement than Guild B, but Guild B can see how Guild A's placement won't work, which Guild B hadn't thought of yet, because of their raid comp. Guild B does have the proper raid comp and comes in for the kill. They obviously don't care about the minimal extra revenue that would come in from twitch. It's really easy to figure out so stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Deleted]

When the CN streamer guilds get on the level of Method I can see them giving in. Maybe.

Level of old Method you mean?

Old Method would have killed this boss days ago.

[ashblond]

You guys are really doing some mental gymnastics here. It's plain and simple. They don't stream progression because they don't want to give away tactics. Guild A could be using a different raid placement than Guild B, but Guild B can see how Guild A's placement won't work, which Guild B hadn't thought of yet, because of their raid comp. Guild B does have the proper raid comp and comes in for the kill. They obviously don't care about the minimal extra revenue that would come in from twitch. It's really easy to figure out so stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

Nobody says every guild should stream their progression. That is totally each guild's free choice to do or not to do so.

It only shows that Chinese guild doesn't care about hiding tactics. And it is more fun for wow fans to be able to watch top guilds progression.

[Sanctioned]

Nobody says every guild should stream their progression. That is totally each guild's free choice to do or not to do so.

It only shows that Chinese guild doesn't care about hiding tactics. And it is more fun for wow fans to be able to watch top guilds progression.

Yea, I usually word things badly, sorry about that. I agree it's actually fun to watch the progression sometimes. That message really should have been pointed towards the few that act as if guilds HAVE to stream progression. Like the guilds slighted their family lineage or some shit.

[durrtygoodz]

Level of old Method you mean?

Old Method would have killed this boss days ago.

Old Method, new Method, who cares, CN guilds are still a week behind.