Frost 7.3

[Dalamian]

Sounds like the new Breath build is gonna be like Ret paladins, HUGE BURST WINDOWS tiny sustained DPS it doesn't work all that well for Ret can't really see it working here

[darkzeros]

wow well they really dont know what they are doing. i wish obliteration gave stacks of KM instead of 10s

[Deleted]

HRW and BoS in the same row, goodbye Frost.
Not that I really care, as I already switched to Unholy.
I dont like the MG-Playstyle so thats not an option.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

That's what they should do though. Cap and normalize it to the point they want. Without HRW you'd need massive amounts of haste to get any decent value out of BoS, because our rune generation is that atrociously bad right now. By doing that alone breath would devalue alot. Something tells me they haven't really tested the proposed changes in anyway and just took a guess, I can't really see that working out well.. The risk-reward here seems a bit off.

Edit: They essentially will fix everything with the flat +% increase (27!). with such a huge base buff you could play any random talent choice and probably be ahead of now. They just made any combination that required a bit of skill before now useless, as the final tier is back to be lackluster again.

Issue with capping it is it goes from feeling good when you manage to keep it up for a pretty long time to feeling like a mistake if you fail to cap it.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Issue with capping it is it goes from feeling good when you manage to keep it up for a pretty long time to feeling like a mistake if you fail to cap it.

I doesn't exactly feel good if you fail to get another oblit out because your GCD decided to be a bit slower than usual thanks due to lag. One of these bad feelings can easily be avoided, the other can't :P.

Edit: To clarify, with capping I ment like Bone Storm for example.

[Qto]

Anyone have any idea when this will hit the PTR? Logged on now to see if it was implemented, but is still not.
I suggest speculating in what's good or bad is useless until we can get some real testing into it with different legendaries, gear and trinkets. Might be some good synergies between the talents which are not horrible.

And frost DK's have always been sort of a machinegun specc. Just that BoS specc limits your abilities to only RW and oblit, rather than acctual 3 buttons with machinegun.

[Icoblablubb]

Thank fuuuuuuck. Might actually start putting time into my FDK again. BoS was mind-numbingly boring and by far the worst case of 1 talent overriding any other possible viable build for an entire spec..

sometimes i wonder if people on the forum actually have a brain .. how is BoS mind-numbingly boring compared to MG build which kills every last cell thats left in the brain?

[Drakonskyr]

sometimes i wonder if people on the forum actually have a brain .. how is BoS mind-numbingly boring compared to MG build which kills every last cell thats left in the brain?

I'm honestly convinced that everyone who hates BoS with a passion does so bc they can't do it, and that's why they like MG, bc it demands the least skill to produce "good" results. It's the very reason why Frost gets called faceroll from time to time.

[Super Kami Dende]

sometimes i wonder if people on the forum actually have a brain .. how is BoS mind-numbingly boring compared to MG build which kills every last cell thats left in the brain?

Because it is boring as fuck to me? Not really hard to understand. Start Fight, use BoS, spam Oblit whilst BoSing, BoS falls off, do mediocre damage for 1 min, repeat.

I'd rather a build where I can be doing nice damage consistently over 1 big burst window and swinging a foam sword in between.

I mean why the fuck do you guys have such a hard on for BoS when it literally takes 0 amount of skill, so it's not like I can see it as an E-peen thing for you guys.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm honestly convinced that everyone who hates BoS with a passion does so bc they can't do it, and that's why they like MG, bc it demands the least skill to produce "good" results. It's the very reason why Frost gets called faceroll from time to time.

How on Earth can someone not do something as braindead and easy as BoS? I'm honestly convinced you guys just want to keep it because you wouldn't be able to play the Spec in any capacity without it being braindead.

[Nemesquish]

27% buff...Real solid QA team we got here, letting this go for so long.

In all reality, this change is atleast going to make Frost viable in some form. Prior tiers, frost had extremely good burst on switch trgets due to front loaded damage on abilities.
Which we've lost due to not doing enough damage with those abilities and also other classes just plain doing it better.

BoS will need much more than a 10% buff to keep it viable (because its only going to last 15-25 seconds), but overall the talent swaps will end up being a good thing. Frost Scythe will actually be taken on some fights now, as will other previous Standard Frost talents.

Koltiras will probably end up being the #1 legendary, along with Bracers or chest.

[Baddok21]

27% buff...Real solid QA team we got here, letting this go for so long.

In all reality, this change is atleast going to make Frost viable in some form. Prior tiers, frost had extremely good burst on switch trgets due to front loaded damage on abilities.
Which we've lost due to not doing enough damage with those abilities and also other classes just plain doing it better.

BoS will need much more than a 10% buff to keep it viable (because its only going to last 15-25 seconds), but overall the talent swaps will end up being a good thing. Frost Scythe will actually be taken on some fights now, as will other previous Standard Frost talents.

Koltiras will probably end up being the #1 legendary, along with Bracers or chest.

all abilities are being buffed by 27% and on top of that BoS is receiving an additional 10%, basicly getting demon hunter openning burst.

But if they are not doing another mid-tier stat squish like they did before night hold HRW/Obliteration will by comparison only get worse as we will have more crit/haste from the extra 45ilvls given from 7.3 T21 (legendary will go to ilvl 1000 and ilvl cap goes to 985) and both those talents only serve to produce resources

[Nemesquish]

all abilities are being buffed by 27% and on top of that BoS is receiving an additional 10%, basicly getting demon hunter openning burst.

But if they are not doing another mid-tier stat squish like they did before night hold HRW/Obliteration will by comparison only get worse as we will have more crit/haste from the extra 45ilvls given from 7.3 T21 (legendary will go to ilvl 1000 and ilvl cap goes to 985) and both those talents only serve to produce resources

Right, But obliterate already hits decently hard, and the extra crystalline sword from it will probably do the same, or close to the same burst with obliteration, and on a lower CD. I could be wrong obviously, but as far as early looks go, I dont think BoS will be taken unless there is a cleave fight where it can hit a 2nd target much of the time. Not to mention Icecap might be coming back with the talent swaps, making Pillar potentially not line up with BoS. (and making Obliteration even better.

[Cosmic Janitor]

In all reality, this change is atleast going to make Frost viable in some form. Prior tiers, frost had extremely good burst on switch trgets due to front loaded damage on abilities.

I fear will see a mid nightmare situation again..
The issue will probably be that once they buff frost (especially faceroll frost) to the levels of unholy, it becomes a no brainer which spec to play (unless you can cheese something hard with fight length and CD usage). So either it will still under perform by 10% and nothing changes or it will be the safe got to spec again.

[Nemesquish]

I fear will see a mid nightmare situation again..
The issue will probably be that once they buff frost (especially faceroll frost) to the levels of unholy, it becomes a no brainer which spec to play (unless you can cheese something hard with fight length and CD usage). So either it will still under perform by 10% and nothing changes or it will be the safe got to spec again.

Yea, Standard Frost is mindnumbingly dumb to play and all, but there is still room for error in the fact its a super fast paced spec and letting stuff like talons drop even a single time can make a huge difference in dps. The hard part of it is actually focusing the entire fight due to how easy it is lol.

It's also not like unholy is hard to play either, and honestly im looking forward to 7.3 just for the change of pace. I literally want to slit my wrists sometimes playing BoS when I goof or get the first mechanic, So not having to deal with that is honestly worth the monotony.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It's also not like unholy is hard to play either, and honestly im looking forward to 7.3 just for the change of pace. I literally want to slit my wrists sometimes playing BoS when I goof or get the first mechanic, So not having to deal with that is honestly worth the monotony.

I didn't mean it that way, but I have to admit I actually like that there is at least something going on with unholy, even between your major CDs.

[Nemesquish]

Yea, sorry that wasn't really directed totally at you, but there's going to be the Unholy fan boys soon, talking about how hard and complicated the spec is, like always.

[Coldvibes]

Yea, sorry that wasn't really directed totally at you, but there's going to be the Unholy fan boys soon, talking about how hard and complicated the spec is, like always.

I wouldn't say Unholy is complicated but after playing both for a half-tier Frost has less nuanced play than Unholy does. Frost during T19 was a little more things you could do because you needed to squeeze HB between globals during Breath. Now its like you pretty much mind-numbingly spam Obliterate with the rare chance you can actually squeeze an HB in.

Edit: To be on topic though, shuffling a majority of dead talents into rows where they would be non-choices anyway while hotfix buffing abilities by a % seems incredibly blizzard-like. HRW is dead without its counterpart, GA/RA need serious buffs/changes to be worthwhile to take.

The fact that our kit has some very flawed anti-synergy is the problem. Granted its the reason why we have two sub specs with completely different philosophies, MG's playstyle being one where you slam all your abilities and go dry asap while BoS you pool for and blow your load.

[Mokuna]

That's just terrible because the only moment frost has a gameplay is during breath, making the boring 3 straight forward buttons rotation the main focus is gonna make it a tasteless spec, no matter the numbers

[Dalamian]

That's just terrible because the only moment frost has a gameplay is during breath, making the boring 3 straight forward buttons rotation the main focus is gonna make it a tasteless spec, no matter the numbers

To be fair most specs only have a few spells they rotate through. I never really thought about it myself until recently watching all of Preach's 7.2.5 spec guides you notice that pretty much all the specs have their 3-4 spells/abilities that they use and have some special one-off spells they pop off every once in a while for a burst window or burn phase and then its back to the standard 3 spell rotation for them.

I myself have mained a Ret Paly through all of Legion, we really only have two buttons to push most of the time, every once in a while you judgesmash for extra damage but, you wanna talk about some boring gameplay! For a while our numbers were decent now we're right there at the bottom with you guys. My main alt is a Frost DK and like many of you I used Breath of Sindragosa as a necessity, I dont despise the spec but having an alternative would be nice.

I can see what Blizzard is trying to do here, short more powerful Breath's and more consistent damage in between Breath's the problem i see is that the 100 talents are still basically useless. Machine Gun isn't gonna want to use Hungering Rune Weapon, and they won't be taking Breath of Sindragosa, and if you are taking Breath you won't be using HRW now either, which is gonna make it a completely dead talent, which is a real shame to be honest.

[Khain]

Might be interesting to have a super strong but short breath. Also I hope they update Soul of the Deathlord, since gathering storm will be pretty much useless without the old BoS synergy.