Not looking to good for DACA

[Deleted]

Looks like DACA may be coming to an end very soon -

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...allenge-240470

Kelly won't commit to defending DACA in court

An Obama-era deportation relief program may soon face a legal challenge — and the Trump administration won’t commit to defending it, Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly told Hispanic lawmakers at a closed-door meeting Wednesday on Capitol Hill.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-trump-amnesty

The future of DACA suddenly looks very shaky

President Trump looks like he might be gearing up to touch the third rail of immigration policy in 2017: ending the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which allowed young unauthorized immigrants to work legally and protected them from deportation.

Here’s what has Democrats worried, though: The decision, in some ways, might not be Trump’s to make anymore.

Rep. Luis V. Gutiérrez is quite worried:

https://gutierrez.house.gov/media-ce...-prepare-worst

I think we have to prepare for the worst and get ready to fight mass deportation. We showed up at airports to fight the Muslim and Refugee Ban and now DREAMers and people who have lived here legally for decades with TPS are in imminent danger.

Secretary Kelly determines the future of TPS and basically told us he is not sure if he will extend it for hundreds of thousands of people. He also said that the future of DACA is up to Attorney General Jeff Sessions, America’s leading advocate against immigration, so Kelly was basically telling us DACA is facing a death sentence. They actually want to take millions of people who are documented – with our own government – make them undocumented, and then go after them and their families.

So, I fear for anybody currently with DACA or TPS.

[Machismo]

Why does Trump hate freedom so much? Sad!

[Blur4stuff]

Not sure what Trump supporters think will be gained by deporting dreamers.

[Sunseeker]

Not sure what Trump supporters think will be gained by deporting dreamers.

Something something anchor babies! Muh welfare check! Using up 'dem hospitals!

[Poopymonster]

Something something anchor babies! Muh welfare check! Using up 'dem hospitals!

We shrink the government to the prerequisite "small" size, which lets the freedoms trickle down. Since we view freedom as a scarce resource in the US, we must get it all for ourselves. We don't want those brown people to use it all up.

[Skroe]

Make America White Again! /Trumpsupporter

[Teleros]

Looks like DACA may be coming to an end very soon

Huzzah!

Make America White Again! /Trumpsupporter

You said it not me :P .

Although at least the deficit will be gone if what you say comes true ...

[Skroe]

Huzzah!


You said it not me :P .

Although at least the deficit will be gone if what you say comes true ...

You do realize I was being sarcastic right?

Concerns about illegal immigration at 10% sincere, 90% the same old anti-immigrant bullshit that Americans have wrestled with since the 19th century.

[Teleros]

You do realize I was being sarcastic right?

Yup, I thought it was obvious from what I wrote in my first line at you.

Seriously though, those numbers re the tax situation are awful.

Concerns about illegal immigration at 10% sincere, 90% the same old anti-immigrant bullshit that Americans have wrestled with since the 19th century.

Not really. Back in the good old days before telephones and such, about a third of immigrants went back home, and of those who stayed, it was either assimilate or fail, because you couldn't stay in contact with the family back home easily, and there was sod all welfare state.

On the other hand, today...







That kind of immigration isn't sustainable, simple as that. Doesn't matter if it's Hispanics moving into the USA, Irish moving to China, or heck, French moving to Germany... the only thing you're going to get from this civil war and ethnic cleansing on a massive scale.

[Masark]

That kind of immigration isn't sustainable, simple as that. Doesn't matter if it's Hispanics moving into the USA, Irish moving to China, or heck, French moving to Germany... the only thing you're going to get from this civil war and ethnic cleansing on a massive scale.

"This immigration is not sustainable! If immigration doesn't stop, white psychotics murdering them!"

[TirielWoW]

That kind of immigration isn't sustainable, simple as that. Doesn't matter if it's Hispanics moving into the USA, Irish moving to China, or heck, French moving to Germany... the only thing you're going to get from this civil war and ethnic cleansing on a massive scale.

I'm not sure I follow.

Why would having Hispanics move here cause ethnic cleansing or civil war? They're people, just like you and I.

[Skroe]

Yup, I thought it was obvious from what I wrote in my first line at you.

Seriously though, those numbers re the tax situation are awful.


Not really. Back in the good old days before telephones and such, about a third of immigrants went back home, and of those who stayed, it was either assimilate or fail, because you couldn't stay in contact with the family back home easily, and there was sod all welfare state.

On the other hand, today...







That kind of immigration isn't sustainable, simple as that. Doesn't matter if it's Hispanics moving into the USA, Irish moving to China, or heck, French moving to Germany... the only thing you're going to get from this civil war and ethnic cleansing on a massive scale.

It's absolutely sustainable. Just like every other wave of immigration.

Exactly like every other wave of immigration. Legitimately nothing is different. In fact giving the impending worker shortage as we move deeper into the 20th century, we'll need more immigrants.

Or let me put it this way. European economies, already in decline, can get wrapped in a tizzy about immigration and economically kill themselves as their workforces shrink and populations age, should they so choose.

Here, in the United States, immigration and immigrant children are driving population growth. Population growth is a key driver of economic growth.

So keep your racist ideas masquerading as economics to yourself. The problem with deficit spending is about the structure of the programs and a have-our-cake-and-eat-it-to approach to taxation, combined with a shift of responsibilities away from the States and to the Federal government. A "it's the brown people's fault, they need to much" argument makes nonsense when put against this.

The biggest drag on the US budget is not blacks or browns. It's not rich or poor. It's the old. Like everywhere else. The old are expensive and the programs in place to care for them are poorly structured, poorly managed and underfinanced compared to their expenditures.

But then again your post is literally exactly whats gone on since the 2012 Republican (my party) post-mortem which said "to win in the future, we need minorities". A double down by the people who want to make America White Again under a wafer thin veneer of security or economic concerns.

Also one last thing.

"Civil War and ethnic cleansing".

What do we look like? Continental Europe? Continental Europe is the place with the 2500 year history of slaughtering thy neighbor. Americans just say mean things about each other from time to time. Big deal.

[Teleros]

"This immigration is not sustainable! If immigration doesn't stop, white psychotics murdering them!"

Hey, if white people are that dangerous, WTF are you doing moving to a country where so many of them live ?

More seriously though, check out how some formerly black neighbourhoods have very rapidly become Hispanic ones, and not simply because the former decide to move out of their own free will.

I'm not sure I follow.

Why would having Hispanics move here cause ethnic cleansing or civil war? They're people, just like you and I.

Simply put, it's what always happens when Tribe A moves into Tribe B's land. Might not happen right away, especially if Tribe B is present in overwhelming numbers, but if they start to equalise (earlier if Tribe B are a bunch of spineless types), trouble starts. There's tons of examples throughout history of mass migration resulting in the destruction of the loser's civilisation and/or people, and no reason to believe we're that much better.

= + =

Leaving history aside for a minute, people are not all the same. If you want a trivial example, sub-Saharan blacks are the only true humans out there, because geneticists reckon that the rest of us have a few % of neanderthal DNA (say, 3-5%). Still, let's forget about race a minute, and just look at culture, politics, that kind of thing. Imperialism and colonialism* can only account for so much of why Ghana is still dirt-poor but South Korea and Singapore are wealthy first world countries, because it's not like Korea wasn't under pretty harsh Japanese rule for a good while, for example.

Now, culture takes a long time to fade away - if it didn't, Spanish wouldn't be spoken so widely in so much of the USA, to give but one example. Now let's compare... basically everywhere in the Americas except Canada & the USA to the USA. Corruption is rife, military coups are a regular feature, as are communist guerrillas and all sorts of "fun" things like that. Now, unless the USA has some kind of magic dirt, you will not suddenly dump all that cultural baggage if you step into New Mexico and/or take an oath.

*Incidentally, if this IS the reason why Ghana is a basket-case, then why do you feel Ghanaians lack the kind of moral agency their white imperialist overlords have / had? "Oh woe is us, we were once part of an empire, and now cannot do anything for ourselves, please white man give us some of your foreign aid budget" sounds just a teensy bit racist IMHO...

= + =

Now, if you do also consider race, then... well let's just look at trust and IQ. IQ is at least 50% heritable - meaning down to your genes, and there are clear differences in average IQ between different ethnic groups. Some of those differences are of course down to education, culture, diet, and so on... but again about 50% of the differences cannot be explained away due to this. As it happens, Hispanics have an average IQ rather lower than that of white Europeans (and thus Americans), and blacks are lower still*. Not exactly nice, but there we go.

As for trust, or openness, again that varies a lot. Europeans tend to be very high-trust, open types (although there are exceptions, and it's more pronounced in northern Europe than southern Europe), and most other groups tend to be low-trust, at least by comparison. Particularly concerning people they don't identify with. This can be seen in a lot of elections, where non-white groups tend to very heavily favour one side or the other. Consider Trump's victory:



Ignore the graphics for a minute, and consider just the numbers:

Trump won 58% of the white vote - pretty close to half didn't vote for him, in other words.
Clinton won almost 9/10 of the black vote, and 2/3 of the Latino & Asian votes. That's a far bigger margin of victory.

Yes, political policies and perceptions will play a part, but it is nonetheless instructive that the margins amongst the groups Clinton won were so strong.

Obviously all this is painting with very broad brush strokes - Thomas Sowell is clearly a very intelligent fellow that any sane country would be proud to count as among its intellectuals, but that just means you have people above (and of course, below) average. And just because the English may be a high-trust group doesn't mean you won't find some right arseholes who'd stab their own mother in the back if it took their fancy in England.

*Briefly, Ashkenazi Jews are at the top with ~112 average IQs, then East Asians (eg Chinese & Japanese) with 105, white Europeans with 100, Hispanics with 90, US blacks around 85, sub-Saharan blacks around 70, and bushmen & pygmies down around 55-60.

= + =

Still, perhaps you're of the opinion that IQ tests (and by extension, basically of modern psychology and related fields) are junk, that there's no difference in IQ between the races, et cetera. Fine. But you still have to explain the cultural and historical evidence that mass migration leads to war, whatever groups you're talking about.

Heck, in more recent times we've used forced migration so as to prevent wars. The Soviets relocated huge numbers of Russians into the Baltic states and the Ukraine to hobble any future rebellion, on the basis that enough of the transplanted Russians would stay loyal to Moscow that the local rebels would face a much tougher situation. After WW1 and WW2, millions of Germans were kicked out of the lands that Germany & Austria lost, and large numbers of Greeks in Anatolia (ie Turkey) were shipped to Greece for basically the same reason - if they're not living amongst you, they can't cause trouble or be a cause for war.

It's not exactly a pleasant pill to swallow, all this stuff, but then if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. I don't want to see anyone die due to ethnic cleansing in the USA - or anywhere else - but given the situation, I think it's all-but inevitable. A moratorium on immigration will delay it, and deporting a few tens of millions will probably be the least bloody solution, but short of that... yeah.



= + =

= + =

It's absolutely sustainable. Just like every other wave of immigration.

No previous migration was this large in absolute numbers. Percentage-wise, it was beaten others, such as the ones that turned the USA & Canada into white countries. Ask the Native Americans how that turned out...

In fact giving the impending worker shortage as we move deeper into the 20th century, we'll need more immigrants.

If they worked as well as the natives you might have a point...

Or let me put it this way. European economies, already in decline, can get wrapped in a tizzy about immigration and economically kill themselves as their workforces shrink and populations age, should they so choose.

Here, in the United States, immigration and immigrant children are driving population growth. Population growth is a key driver of economic growth.

It's a key one, yes. Not the only one though, by any means.

The problem with deficit spending is about the structure of the programs and a have-our-cake-and-eat-it-to approach to taxation, combined with a shift of responsibilities away from the States and to the Federal government. A "it's the brown people's fault, they need to much" argument makes nonsense when put against this.

Oh, I agree that a 90%+ white USA would have probably found other ways to blow through all that money, but it says something about the current state of affairs that those numbers can be gotten.

The biggest drag on the US budget is not blacks or browns. It's not rich or poor. It's the old.

I agree, for what it's worth.

"Civil War and ethnic cleansing".

What do we look like? Continental Europe? Continental Europe is the place with the 2500 year history of slaughtering thy neighbor. Americans just say mean things about each other from time to time. Big deal.

1. All the white people from America came from Europe.
2. Check out what little evidence there is (due to lack of technology) about how the Native Americans warred with each other. Or how the Aztecs behaved. European internecine warfare was, with the possible exception of the Thirty Years War, far cleaner than most warfare.

infracted - forbidden topics

[anveena]

Nice. Deport every last one of them.

[Dmitro]

Very nice!

[Crissi]

Reminder: race discussions aren't allowed

[Teleros]

Reminder: race discussions aren't allowed

May as well close the thread then :P .

[Grapemask]

When you see someone make so many terrible unfounded or pseudo-science-based assumptions to come to even more terrible conclusions on race, but want to avoid the race discussion just as much as mods don't want it to occur... unnngggg....

[Deleted]

And this is where Congress is supposed to come in and actually create and finance the program by passing a bill. Executive orders are not lasting solutions, and Congress needs to start actually legislating. We're going to have immigrants, so let's make sure that these immigrants contribute to and assimilate into our society.

[Deleted]

Ciao bella