Is Russiagate Really Hillarygate?

[mvaliz]

This whole Russia thing is white noise at best. Sure it would be funny as fuck if it turned out this way but there was never anything to begin with.

As others pointed out, Dumbass Junior already confessed to collusion.

But, to play your game, what would REALLY be funny is that if it turns out Dumbass Donnie Dump was actually oblivious to the whole thing (Very doubtful, but I'm just playing along here...) and just listened to his advisors (which, lets be honest, is all the Dumbass really knows how to do) who were the ones colludin, but in the end gets a arrested for Obstruction of Justice since he tried to stop the investigation! (yeah... forgot about that card on the table, didn't we? :P). Whereas all he had to do was NOT be paranoid and let it go through its normal paces like any normal innocent person would...

Again, do NOT get me wrong! I think at this point that guy is pretty much guilty - I'm just tossing that out there because a) to reply to your idea and, b) more importantly - I'm open-minded enough to NOT be one of those "Locker her up" Anti-Hillary people who deny 8+ Investigations and hearings clearing her of any involvement in Benghazi, so if by some miracle they do come back with an "innocent" verdict I'm not going to be one of you lot who wield pitchforks and torches cus my political opponent doesn't get in trouble.

[Felya]

and Giuliani, et al) allowed the evidence at that crime scene to be destroyed

Just want to say that the following has nothing to do with 9/11 conspiracy. It's why I cut most of his post.

You think Giuliani cannot be trusted about that evidence, but can be trusted when it comes to Trump? The guy you are blaming by name in your conspiracy theory, is also the guy who you are trusting when it comes to Trump. You do know Giuliani, the conspirator to cover up of thousands murdered Americans, is now a guy you agree with on Trump. One of Trump's largest proponents and for a while considered a shoe in for Secretary of State. Until an Exxon CEO with long history of mostly working with Russia, got it.

Want to know what changed in Giuliani, to update your opinion of him? Him now being on the side that strikes your ego of superiority.

[Deleted]

As others pointed out, Dumbass Junior already confessed to collusion.

LOL - collusion is not even a legal term. It is always such fun watching people make incredibly specious arguments

Trump is still the President

MAGA, baby!

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Scuttlebutt is that Ben Rhodes is coming up in front of the House Oversight Committee. What interesting times we live in.

As I have said before, when all is said and done the only ones that will be indicted will be John Brennan, Susan Rice, and Ben Rhodes - and maybe Obama or Valerie Jarrett.

The Obama administration was probably the most anti-American administration to ever step foot in the White House. Personally, I would love to see Barry go to jail for the rest of his life - but Trump kicking the Democrats and the NeverTrumpers to the curb will have to suffice for the time being.

Hey Barry - what was that, you arrogant little prick? (this never gets old - makes me laugh every time )

[Draco-Onis]

This whole Russia thing is white noise at best. Sure it would be funny as fuck if it turned out this way but there was never anything to begin with.

[Deleted]

LOL - collusion is not even a legal term.

http://thelawdictionary.org/collusion/

[Deleted]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-215366


Renato Mariotti is a former federal prosecutor who handled many obstruction cases. He is now a partner at Thompson Coburn LLP.

Although “collusion” is a word that has been thrown around a lot lately, it doesn’t have any specific legal meaning. What matters legally is whether someone in the Trump campaign joined a conspiracy, aided and abetted a crime, or actively concealed a crime. None of these legal concepts is complicated. A conspiracy is just a legal term for an agreement to commit a crime. You aid and abet a crime if you know about criminal activity and actively try to make it succeed. There is also a crime called “misprision of felony” that means you know that a felony has been committed and you actively work to conceal the crime.

[Shadowferal]

Legal Experts say Donald Jr has confessed to a federal crime

Trump Jr. had already admitted in a statement that he took the meeting with the Russian attorney, a woman named Natalia Veselnitskaya, to get useful information on Hillary Clinton. His defense of his actions was that the meeting didn’t bear fruit: that “it quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.” In other words, there’s no way this constituted meaningful collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia because Veselnitskaya didn’t provide him with anything useful.
But experts on national security and election law say this “defense” is, legally speaking, no defense at all.
“The emails are simply put damning as a legal matter,” explains Ryan Goodman, a former Defense Department special counsel and current editor of the legal site Just Security. “The text of the emails provide very clear evidence of participation in a scheme to involve the Russian government in federal election interference, in a form that is prohibited by federal criminal law.”
Jens David Ohlin, a law professor at Cornell University, is even blunter: “It’s a shocking admission of a criminal conspiracy.”
Trump Jr.‘s decision to take the meeting in and of itself likely violated campaign finance law, which does not require you to actually get anything useful from foreigners. In other words, the mere fact that Trump Jr. asked for information from a Russian national about Clinton might have constituted a federal crime.
“The law states that no person shall knowingly solicit or accept from a foreign national any contribution to a campaign of an item of value,” Goodman tells me. “There is now a clear case that Donald Trump Jr. has met all the elements of the law, which is a criminally enforced federal statute.”

The statute in question is 52 USC 30121, 36 USC 510 — the law governing foreign contributions to US campaigns. There are two key passages that apply here. This is the first:

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

The crucial phrase here is “other thing of value, It means that the law extends beyond just cash donations. Foreigners are also banned from providing other kinds of contributions that would be the functional equivalent of a campaign donation, just provided in the form of services rather than goods. Like, say, damaging information the Russian government collected about Hillary Clinton.
“To the extent you’re using the resources of a foreign country to run your campaign — that’s an illegal campaign contribution,” Nick Akerman, an assistant special prosecutor during the Watergate investigation who now specializes in data crime, says.
Here’s the second important passage of the statute: “No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by [this law].”

[GennGreymane]

To the people arguing about legal definitions, quote me when your sitting for the bar like I am.

[LaserSharkDFB]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-215366


Renato Mariotti is a former federal prosecutor who handled many obstruction cases. He is now a partner at Thompson Coburn LLP.

Although “collusion” is a word that has been thrown around a lot lately, it doesn’t have any specific legal meaning. What matters legally is whether someone in the Trump campaign joined a conspiracy, aided and abetted a crime, or actively concealed a crime. None of these legal concepts is complicated. A conspiracy is just a legal term for an agreement to commit a crime. You aid and abet a crime if you know about criminal activity and actively try to make it succeed. There is also a crime called “misprision of felony” that means you know that a felony has been committed and you actively work to conceal the crime.

So you agree, then, that a full investigation into whether or not the Trump campaign committed any crimes during the act of colluding with Russia is warranted and, indeed, is absolutely paramount? No stone unturned? At least as thorough an investigation as Benghazi?

Beyond the purely legal issue, you would also agree, I hope, that everyone involved needs to have their security clearance revoked immediately? They have been proven to be completely untrustworthy and subject to Russian influence, after all.

Or you could blow it off as nothing and admit that you hate America, I guess.

[Deleted]

To the people arguing about legal definitions, quote me when your sitting for the bar like I am.

No one gives a flying fuck that you are "sitting for the bar". What, that makes you the most legally astute person in the world? FFS - you aren't even a lawyer, you are just someone with a JD. SO FUCKING WHAT.

[GennGreymane]

No one gives a flying fuck that you are "sitting for the bar". What, that makes you the most legally astute person in the world? FFS - you aren't even a lawyer, you are just someone with a JD. SO FUCKING WHAT.

More so than you. Its also more than what you have, or the people on youtube you listen to, or the people on FB you praise and worship. I mean you quote them word for word right? Yet they don;t even have minimum requirements to even be considered someone worth listening to. Then again wikipedia is enough for most, but maybe not for you.

[Deleted]

Or you could blow it off as nothing and admit that you hate America, I guess.

I completely blow it off as nothing but bullshit hysteria and hyperbole.

Hate America? I voted for Trump! The people that voted for Trump did so specifically because we love this country. After what the piece of shit named Obama did to this country the only way that we - REAL Americans - could save it was by voting for Trump.

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More so than you. Its also more than what you have, or the people on youtube you listen to, or the people on FB you praise and worship. I mean you quote them word for word right? Yet they don;t even have minimum requirements to even be considered someone worth listening to. Then again wikipedia is enough for most, but maybe not for you.

WTF? The person I quoted:

Renato Mariotti is a former federal prosecutor who handled many obstruction cases. He is now a partner at Thompson Coburn LLP.

You haven't even made it to ambulance chaser yet. And based on your reply, I would not even hire you for that.

[GennGreymane]

I completely blow it off as nothing but bullshit hysteria and hyperbole.

Hate America? I voted for Trump! The people that voted for Trump did so specifically because we love this country. After what the piece of shit named Obama did to this country the only way that we - REAL Americans - could save it was by voting for Trump.

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WTF? The person I quoted:

Renato Mariotti is a former federal prosecutor who handled many obstruction cases. He is now a partner at Thompson Coburn LLP.

You haven't even made it to ambulance chaser yet. And based on your reply, I would not even hire you for that.

Really? You only quoted this one individual the entire time you have been on this site? I am impressed. Also I wouldn't take your money or accept to help ya. May be an ethical violation to take advantage.

[xanzul]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrod.../#74ba3dd85cf6


Now this is JUICY par excellence. Let us investigate those (democratic) russian ties and corruption full force guys


Oh, do I hear some protest-screeching? Do I hear leftists suddenly wanting to drop these russian investigations?
OH TOO BAD SO SAD, the behemoth has awoken and the democratic projection will cost them BIGLY!

MAGA

No. Stop it. This is blatant trolling.

Do you people seriously not see the difference between someone not in office and someone who is the current president being engaged in what are at best unethical activities?

[Deleted]

Really? You only quoted this one individual the entire time you have been on this site? I am impressed. Also I wouldn't take your money orr accept to help ya. May be an ethical violation to take advantage.

Stick the argument at hand, counselor - and what you just implied would get you disbarred.

You are making assumptions based on NO EVIDENCE. Unless you can go back and pull all the supposed "quotes" I have made and specifically attribute their sources to the ones that you have implied - well, that amounts to false testimony.

There may be a future for you in the slip-and-fall business.

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...the current president being engaged in what are at best unethical activities?

What activities would those be? Care to name, oh I don't no, maybe ONE?

[GennGreymane]

Stick the argument at hand, counselor - and what you just implied would get you disbarred.

You are making assumptions based on NO EVIDENCE. unless you can go back and pull all the supposed "quotes" I have made and specifically attribute their sources to the ones that you have implied - well, that amounts to false testimony.

There may be a future for you in the slip-and-fall business.

Last I checked you have no authority to do so. Also, no, I am making an assumption based on my first hand experience.

Please, don't come to my office for a slip and fall, I might violate an ethical rule in taking advantage of your situation.

Go watch something thats not law and order next time.

[Deleted]

Last I checked you have no authority to do so. Also, no, I am making an assumption based on my first hand experience.

Please, don't come to my office for a slip and fall, I might violate an ethical rule in taking advantage of your situation.

Go watch something thats not law and order next time.

Ya - and try getting a JD from a college that doesn't advertise on the back of a matchbook.

[primalmatter]

Junior literally confessed to seeking to collude with Russians, and you call it 'white noise'.

Let's be honest and reasonable here. Even assuming you're right, you, personally, have no basis for concluding that the Russia thing is a nothingburger. You just don't, unless you were there at the time. You don't have all the facts, and neither do those of us who think it's true. In a case where more information is needed, what you do is have someone investigate, which is what is happening now. If you then demand that the investigation be cut short, that means you care less about being correct than keeping your preconceived notions from being tarnished.

Now, just take a moment and assume that the opposite is true, that Trump went all in on collusion. Do you really want him to get away with it? What if it had been Obama?

Be honest.

My one hundred percent honest opinion?

I don't see Russia as a enemy. I see them as doing us a service by revealing our own corruption to us. If or if not the law was broken isn't honestly a big deal for me as I see it serving a greater good.

With that said I don't see this as breaking the law unless we are rewriting it to make being given something the same as soliciting it.

[GennGreymane]

Ya - and try getting a JD from a college that doesn't advertise on the back of a matchbook.

Oh? Which school would that be? Maybe learn and form your own opinions instead of repeating talking points you saw in a normie level post on some FB page in the future, you would be doing yourself a greater service.

[Crissi]

Quit the personal bickering