We found the reason why the game used to be great. PRESTIGE

[TheReptorGekko]

I'll say this one more time:

The game does not confer prestige on a player. People confer prestige on others by showing respect. There will never be anything about a reward from LFR or any other part of the game that will grant prestige to a player. Get it through your head.

I am pretty sure he know an he clearly just want attention just look his post in this thread they all follow the same "circular pattern"

[Sermistalot]

Oh, people that worry about what people think of them in a video game.

[Deleted]

It's mildly stupid that anyone would assume that someone that clears LFR is "done" with the game. Maybe not even mildly now that I think about it. It's a big game. It's much, much more than clearing the final boss of a raid. It's fine for players to think that clearing the last boss of some raid is the capstone for their game. I applaud and support that. I have nothing but contempt for the idea that it's the capstone of my game. That's not anyone else's call.

It's stupid to assume that exists people who when clear LFR are done with the game?
I'm pretty sure that's not what you wrote because those people trully exist. English is not my primary language, sorry.

They stop at LFR because there is no reason for them to continue. There is nothing "shiny" at the end of the road for them. Only item level to do Heroic and Mythic. Item level is a weak concept of incentive. It's useless.
There is nothing shiny enough for people to continue progressing in WoW. Only item level

Ofcourse that i also acknowledge people who even if they wanted to raid "normal" they can't no matter what. Like yourself.

I'll say this one more time:

The game does not confer prestige on a player. People confer prestige on others by showing respect. There will never be anything about a reward from LFR or any other part of the game that will grant prestige to a player. Get it through your head.

I understand that the LFR version would have no prestige to the common dominator but it would be something. At least something to look up to when doing LFR.
A quest.
A easy quest, ok, i understand.
A very very very easy quest of repetition and waiting for LFR to be unlocked.

But it would be something, the poor guys can't be left with nothing. They would already miss the Normal, Heroic, Mythic supposedly "shiny" rewards.

[Deleted]

I agree it is kind of stupid that some people think the game is done when they clear a raid on LFR but that is the reality for some players.

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Hahahaha, yeah okay. No.

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Stop wasting my time with pointless insults.

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If anything in this 30 page thread and prior threads have shown...that will not be happening.

What a baby blizz boy, you don't even have arguments anymore. Do you get any special pet for sucking them?

[Deleted]

I don't think it's stupid at all considering the major focus of the game is raiding, and has been at least since cataclysm. It's equally stupid to assume that everyone enjoys the whole repetition of doing the same content on multiple difficulties. Killing the last boss of a raid on ones chosen difficulty probably is the end of the patch for most people given that grinding gear to be ready for the next tier is no longer necessary in most cases, you can either get by with the gear you got while clearing the raid the first time and/or by using the catch-up mechanics in place.

We share the same opinion on the situation of raiding.
I actually think people who do LFR > Normal > Heroic > Mythic are very much crazy. But hey, as long as people have fun is all cool.

[Demithio]

I don't think it's stupid at all considering the major focus of the game is raiding, and has been at least since cataclysm. It's equally stupid to assume that everyone enjoys the whole repetition of doing the same content on multiple difficulties. Killing the last boss of a raid on ones chosen difficulty probably is the end of the patch for most people given that grinding gear to be ready for the next tier is no longer necessary in most cases, you can either get by with the gear you got while clearing the raid the first time and/or by using the catch-up mechanics in place.

Basically, not only has the gear lost its prestige, but I think more importantly, the game has lost its intrigue due to the way things are structured, and the manner in which gear is associated with the game now.

[Deleted]

I don't raid anymore. Not interested in it and don't have the time even if I was.

So when I clear LFR for the first time I'm done with the raid but not done with the game.

It's mildly stupid that anyone would assume that someone that clears LFR is "done" with the game. Maybe not even mildly now that I think about it. It's a big game. It's much, much more than clearing the final boss of a raid. It's fine for players to think that clearing the last boss of some raid is the capstone for their game. I applaud and support that. I have nothing but contempt for the idea that it's the capstone of my game. That's not anyone else's call.

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I'll say this one more time:

The game does not confer prestige on a player. People confer prestige on others by showing respect. There will never be anything about a reward from LFR or any other part of the game that will grant prestige to a player. Get it through your head.

This best part of this entire thread and most true thing ive read in here, but dont think people will get in their head though :/

[Deleted]

I kind of agree with the OP regarding prestige and transmog.

Admittedly, I love transmog hunting, its one of the few remaining activities I still find fun, especially because it's doable solo very easily as well.

At the same time, I can't deny its detrimental effects. An MMO has two fundamental ways to reward you:
Stats and looks. I would argue looks are even more important than stats to a fair number of people (not all of course) - it's a huge motivator.
Because you want to look good, but also because rare armor does convey prestige. Some people seem to deny the latter, but trust me.. the whispers in vanilla were very, very real.
And I was actually mostly the whisperer, not the guy with the awesome armor But it was precisely what got me raiding in the first place, I wanted to look like that too. I *really* didn't care about any stats either. It was needed to progress, but wasn't what was driving me personally.

Anyway, transmog has taken that aspect virtually out of the game. Everybody looks like a badass now. Sure, the new tier sets look nice too, you probably won't even be able to tell which one is new and which one isn't unless you basically live on MMO-champion and/or pay very close attention Transmogging into any other great looking set will be just good enough for most people.

So visuals have looks a big part of their motivational power.
Which means less tools at Blizzard's disposal to motivate players to do something (mostly down to stats now). And making everything about hunting down stats only gets a little boring fast, and makes it a lot harder to balance content. Why do 5mans when LFR gives better loot? etc.

So yea. I'm a bit torn whether implementing transmogging was a good idea or not. But I can't deny it had both a lot of positive as well as a lot of negative impact on this game at the same time.

[Deleted]

@TheUnrealDonald

Your post brings a tear to my eye You really understand me

You aknowledge that in a MMO there are 2 ways of rewarding a player, power and looks.
Both are important but i think in WoW, power is only good if your goal is to climb all the way to Mythic raiding (something that almost no one does). And it's useless to anything else, even more useless now that PvP have templates.

The crowd that only wants to "look cool" have no motivation to raid because of transmog.
In the past everyone was focused on how everyone looked. By "looking at someone" you could visually see their progression in PvE. It was a good system of incentive where everyone looked bad unless they did PvE. A endless cycle each expansion. A quest for prestige.

Note that i don't believe in going back in time and remove any feature of WoW. I just think the game could use a new form of incentive for people who only care about looks because that part of the game is pretty much dead to transmog.

[Deleted]

Transmog was one of the best additions to the game. Your opinion is wrong.

since transmog no one cares how anybody looks anymore. it ruined a lot.

[vertigo12]

I'd go for a veteran player and pro at what class he's using even with a clown looking outfit rather than a player looking flashy but is just a lootwhore or just lucky with rolls but no skills.

I too abhor those have the same outlook back in ICC days where it's not about armor looks but gear score. Yeah, screw those raid leaders just looking at gearscore but not on achievement or clears.

And yeah look I got mythic set on me so bring me in the raid and only does careless dps then rage quits like a troll.

Oh if you want prestige look at the attempt counts of the top raiding guild specially on M KJ.The time they invest, the patience, the dedication. For me that is prestige. Not with somebody who has flashy gear and after 1 failed attempt or pull leaves the group.

[Kyanion]

I'd go for a veteran player and pro at what class he's using even with a clown looking outfit rather than a player looking flashy but is just a lootwhore or just lucky with rolls but no skills.

I too abhor those have the same outlook back in ICC days where it's not about armor looks but gear score. Yeah, screw those raid leaders just looking at gearscore but not on achievement or clears.

And yeah look I got mythic set on me so bring me in the raid and only does careless dps then rage quits like a troll.

You make some really one sided leaps of faith here. You blame raid leaders for using gearscore in ICC and whine that they don't look at past achievements in prior expansions and THEN you turn around and blame mythic geared people in Legion for rage quitting? You assume that the people back in ICC with low gearscore were just awesome players because they did something in Vanilla or TBC and assume that mythic geared people in Legion just are rage quitting babies that have no skill. Gee what a non biased argument!

What if the player back in ICC with low gear score ALSO sucked ass? Who cares if he did great in Vanilla and TBC if his gear was shit in ICC and he couldn't pull the numbers he needed to pull. I don't even see how gear appearances even factor into your weird comment. And on the flip side what if the mythic geared player in Legion raids was ALSO good at his class to go along with his great gear?

[vertigo12]

You make some really one sided leaps of faith here. You blame raid leaders for using gearscore in ICC and whine that they don't look at past achievements in prior expansions and THEN you turn around and blame mythic geared people in Legion for rage quitting? You assume that the people back in ICC with low gearscore were just awesome players because they did something in Vanilla or TBC and assume that mythic geared people in Legion just are rage quitting babies that have no skill. Gee what a non biased argument!

What if the player back in ICC with low gear score ALSO sucked ass? Who cares if he did great in Vanilla and TBC if his gear was shit in ICC and he couldn't pull the numbers he needed to pull. I don't even see how gear appearances even factor into your weird comment. And on the flip side what if the mythic geared player in Legion raids was ALSO good at his class to go along with his great gear?

That is the point. Prestige doesn't count from the gears we have because at the end of the day the grind and effort you give might be more than the reward you get. It's about your attitude and performance in game. The more so in real life. Imagine doing a dungeon/raid several times in an attempt to get a specfic gear, mat it be for looks or stats but unfortunately luck isn't always at your favor,you did it for the nth time already..

There is a difference between clearing a content below required gear score but the team could pull through and be successful vs. bunch of overgeared guys just steamrolling a content.

Best example: Ulduar and its rendition of heroic version of the encounter. You need to do certain mechanics first to trigger its heroic mode.

Or finish a boss with a geara score less than which is required mechanics back in WotLK.

For me the best reflection of prestige doesn't come from the gear but those freaking complicated requirements to get an achievement or feat of strength.

[Deleted]

Oh if you want prestige look at the attempt counts of the top raiding guild specially on M KJ.The time they invest, the patience, the dedication. For me that is prestige. Not with somebody who has flashy gear and after 1 failed attempt or pull leaves the group.

That's prestige for the top 1%.
I'm talking prestige to ALL levels. LFR > Normal > Heroic > Mythic

This way the game would be divided in different social classes. LFR being the less prestigious one and ofcourse "less rare".

There should be ways for prestige to the majority of players, not only the top 1%.

[Deleted]

since transmog no one cares how anybody looks anymore. it ruined a lot.

Problem isnt trasmog but fact you can just go back and farm all those shiny skins for free. All those items should removed when content is absolote so it holds its value. Just like they did with tier 3.

[Kazlofski]

Problem isnt trasmog but fact you can just go back and farm all those shiny skins for free. All those items should removed when content is absolote so it holds its value. Just like they did with tier 3.

And then the game has much much less stuff to do in max level, so people should do what? only raid and play other games? or let me guess, "Blizz should release content more frequently" which is very easy to say.

[Talsar]

We found the reason why the game used to be great. ROSE TINTED GLASSES

/thread

[Deleted]

And then the game has much much less stuff to do in max level, so people should do what? only raid and play other games? or let me guess, "Blizz should release content more frequently" which is very easy to say.

Maybe a system with shinier stuff than transmog to equip your character with...but if this new "shiny stuff" is obtainable once the expansion ends we will be left with the same situation of transmog.

We will be flooded with shinny stuff in no time.

[vertigo12]

That's prestige for the top 1%.
I'm talking prestige to ALL levels. LFR > Normal > Heroic > Mythic

This way the game would be divided in different social classes. LFR being the less prestigious one and ofcourse "less rare".

There should be ways for prestige to the majority of players, not only the top 1%.

When I said this:

Oh if you want prestige look at the attempt counts of the top raiding guild specially on M KJ. The time they invest, the patience, the dedication. For me that is prestige. Not with somebody who has flashy gear and after 1 failed attempt or pull leaves the group.
For me the best reflection of prestige doesn't come from the gear but completing those freaking complicated requirements to get an achievement or feat of strength.

This is what I was focusing on when I said about prestige since so far that 600+ attempt = patience, dedication to finish a content can translate to any tier of raid may it be LFR,normal or heroic.

[Rynard]

I enjoyed the game a lot more before raid and dungeon finder. The game was more about community and making long term friends. Now you just log on and queue for everything and never group with the same person twice. Yes you can form guild groups, but it just doesn't feel the same.