[TV] Doctor Who

[mvaliz]

Interestingly, I thought his biggest problem was the chemistry between him and Jenna Coleman... Or complete lack of it. They were never a believable duo, something that was exasperated by the fact Coleman can't really act and the writing throughout season 9 didn't help her, either..

Was just going to say that Jenna didn't help things either as Clara's character was a cardboard cutout of a really generic Mary Sue. Her first appearance as the Victorian secret agent had more character than Clara did! :P

[Kelimbror]

Don't care about the gender of the Doctor after this reveal.
Do care that this actress has never shown anything I would consider worthy of the Doctor. Smith was an unknown and turned out ok, so who knows?
Do care that the writers will probably harp on a progressive agenda, which as someone who sides with progressive agenda I still don't want to see hamfisted into my favorite tv show.

[ramjb]

I think it's a good move. The only Dr. Who fans I know irl are girls, so it's a woman's show anyway. Although thinking about it: maybe the move will backfire, because a lot of the chicks who watch it dig Dr. Who for his sex appeal: how smart, funny, vulnerable he is, and how they'd love to be his companion.

[Deleted]

Don't care about the gender of the Doctor after this reveal.
Do care that this actress has never shown anything I would consider worthy of the Doctor. Smith was an unknown and turned out ok, so who knows?
Do care that the writers will probably harp on a progressive agenda, which as someone who sides with progressive agenda I still don't want to see hamfisted into my favorite tv show.

I think this is the part that concerns me.
This is the BBC after all.

[Adoxe]

I would've preferred for the Doctor to stay male, as I absolutely hate the idea of changing existing character's genders just for the sake of diversity like they did with Iron Man, Captain America and Thor, and others, in the comics. However, I've had some time to adjust to the idea of a Female Doctor since it became blatantly obvious that it's coming after Missy was introduced and to be honest, now that it's actually happening, I'm not upset. She is a great actress and I'm looking forward to seeing what she brings to the table as the Doctor. As long as they don't make it feel forced by making her say things like "Oh couldn't have done that when I was a man." and other stupid things similar to that, it should be fine.

[eschatological]

Superman, superwoman.

granted that happend in late 40s.

If it has a good reason, its completly fine, but current events leads everyone to believe that it is pandering to PC culture, which is just cancer anyway, and will make the show cancer..

Could be fine if they simply have a female doctor, but dont acknowledge that she is female every 5 mins.

Current events lead you to think they're pandering? They first suggested a female doctor in 1999, and then, what, 4/5 years ago they introduced the idea that regenerations could be of different genders.

Let's address a few things:
1) Someone asked why, if Timelords can regen into anything, why not a woman before this? That'd make sense if the regeneration was completely random - like pulling the slot machine arm and seeing what comes up. But there's at least been an inkling that who the Doctor becomes is kind of a decision, or at least influenced, by the dying Doctor's mindset. There's an angry Eccleston, who wanted to stop being angry, but then turned into a quite sad-but-loving Tennant ("the one who wants to remember). Tennant didn't want to go, he wanted to live in the moment, and became Smith, the goofy kid hiding out ("the one who wants to forget). Smith's Doctor literally went to his death and lived longer than most other regenerations. He literally faced his true death, and was then given a new set of regenerations - and he regenerated into an older, wiser, but bit cynical Doctor - Capaldi. There's this mindset that influences the choices.

So, this season, they set up this internal conflict. This idea that the Doctor was tired of changing. He was tired of not knowing who he was. He was concerned that the identity of the Doctor as someone who was "loving" or "kind" was being lost. You see him being tempted by the Master to just run away, to leave people behind. But Capaldi's Doctor then recognizes that the heart of the issue is the role the Doctor has always played - to care for others. After all, Timelords get to pick their own names. And that his sense of "Who-ness" (forgive the pun) mattered less than his "What-ness." And one response to being tired could be to completely change himself up, try something new, and find purpose again in his next regeneration.

2) "But the General seemed to switch back and forth!" Maybe that's the type of person the General was. Someone who liked to explore. Something I think NuWho has done fairly well is explore that the Doctor sometimes falls back into what he's comfortable with instead of mixing it up - this was especially true of Capaldi's Doctor. He could have easily been a white male for 13 regenerations because *he himself* thought of himself as such. The question will be whether the writing can convince us that the Doctor needed a super radical change to re-find himself.

3) "But this is pandering to do it now! Do it in the 1980s!" Well, hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? In the 80s, at least in the U.S., it was still legal to beat your wife "as long as it didn't leave a mark." I think one thing most sides forget is how radically society was changed in the past 15 years in terms of social equality. Growing up in the 80s and 90s, it was still not okay to be gay, I had friends who were disowned during those decades for it and no one thought twice about it. Gay people were super closeted, and the only gay people you knew of were famous and could fall back on their fame, like Freddie Mercury. When I was in high school in the late 90s, a gay teen was dragged behind a pickup truck til he died, for being gay, and this didn't occur in some third world country, but Texas. Sooooooo much has changed, and I think millennials (on both sides of the issue) forget how quickly it has changed. They could have made Eccleston's Doctor a woman - but I doubt it would have made it past that first season.

Some other thoughts:

A) I agree I hope they don't do a lot of "oh man it's so much harder being a woman." They've always kind of hand-waved race/gender issues before, when Bill showed up in England 500 years ago she was like "Why aren't they concerned I'm black?" And they did a little wink and nod and said "Well, that's just a current day story of how things have always been." They reiterated that in the Roman soldier episode with Bill's being a lesbian and expecting a backlash from these "more primitive" people but they were just like: oh well. Martha as a companion dealt with a bit of that, too, when the Doctor forgot who he was and was a professor in WWII era England and she was a black maid. Hopefully, among aliens the Doctor being a woman doesn't get a second glance, and among human beings it's just kind of hand-waved away in a cheeky/clever way (like the Roman soldier scene, which I thought was expertly done this season).

B) I do agree I wish she had been a bit older. I've never been a fan of the fangirling of Tennant or Smith, Eccleston was easily my favorite of the trio. But I guess "young" has always been the nature of modern television.

C) I hope that Capaldi's change is along the theme the searching, and confusion, and exhaustion written about at the end of last season. That maybe the female regeneration is a last ditch effort on the Doctor's part to see if changing things up helps the inherent pain the Doctor has always felt (at least thru NuWho).

Edit: IOW, I hope the Doctor isn't immediately cheery and chipper as soon as she's a woman. That should be an epic struggle. And with Bill being gone as a companion, you have an opportunity for a companion who has no idea the Doctor has ever been male and then wonders why the Doctor is struggling so much. The best bet for the Doctor is to go barreling into situations just like the Doctor always has, and for people to be visibly surprised but not push back because it's fairly obvious she knows what she's doing, and then having the Doctor's struggles be more internal and with the new companion, who won't understand them at all. Particularly, I want them to explore the idea Bill's Cyberman offered: "I'm not me in this new body, and if I'm not me, I don't want to live."

[mvaliz]

she occasionally had to tell people she doesnt fuck men, something actual lesbians have to do all the time. thats called being realistic

Realistic, but who the hell watches Sci-Fi/Doctor Who for "realism"? We just want a damn fun romp through time and space, and maybe learn a little something along the way. :P

I mean, I'm as progressive as the next person - and even I have to admit that even I got tired of it - ESPECIALLY since they lied when they said "it was just going to be made a point in a throw-away line in the first story". I've been a fan since the early 80s, and I agree the show definitely had its progressive roots and statements and I always applaud that. The only diff was it was once every 4th story, was also almost always a split second address or a throw-away line, and even then the writers always had more skill and tact to fit it in than always having the narrative equivalent of the word "Progressive Idea!" written on a 2x4 and slammed into the forehead of the viewer. ;P

I can't think of a single time Sarah Jane Smith had to express her sexual preference, can you?

[Immitis]

>being realistic
>show is literally about time travel

i think the virtue signalling from the bbc has got out of hand. okay, she's a lesbian. lets move on. that's how real life works. i don't go into work every day and tell my colleagues i'm gay, and i certainly don't start every conversation with "hi, my name is <> im gay" ... it's fucking stupid.

i am okay with this though, so long as every episode isnt "FIGHT THE PATRIARCHY", "WOMEN > MEN" and "HI IM A WOMAN".

except she didnt do that, ever. bills only mentioned her sexuality when someone flirted with her, or asked her out, or asked her about men she liked.

all of those are situations where you state your sexuality

if my gay friend is having a conversation with someone and theyre like "hey what kind of girls do you like to fuck" they dont just lie, they say they dont like girls they like men.

this is all things gay people do, i do think they did the whole someone wants to fuck bill thing alot but that just seems to be a general trait of bill. much like jack harkness everyone wants to fuck her but shes not bi.

and this could really go onto a different tangent, why does doctor who seem to continually go down the stereotyped route of lgbt characters being oversexed and more sexually deviant. even vastra as a side character constantly remarked about attractive people and wanting to fuck them.

[mvaliz]

Current events lead you to think they're pandering? They first suggested a female doctor in 1999, and then, what, 4/5 years ago they introduced the idea that regenerations could be of different genders.

Oh, OH my dear child! That suggestion actually goes back faaaaaar further than you can imagine! ^_^

Actually, the very first time I know it was suggested was actually between the transition of Doctors 4 and 5 (Tom Baker to Peter Davison) back in the early 1980s! I'm trying to find the video of the TV interview, but they were asking Tom about him leaving if the rumors were true that it was going to be a woman to replace him. It has, quite literally, been a staple of The Mirror and The Sun to publish that rumor every single time a transition was announced - sadly mostly to sell papers. >_<

[Deleted]

she occasionally had to tell people she doesnt fuck men, something actual lesbians have to do all the time. thats called being realistic

And thats why it was wrong! its a damn SCi-Fi-TV-Show not somebodies live displayed on CNN so ONCE would have been enough.

- - - Updated - - -

I love that people are worried about empowering someone beyond a white man. Very entertaining.

Sorry, but do you even read yourself?
A women is more powerfull then a man? damn femnazis who dont even try to go for equality anymore.....

[Sunseeker]

Realistic, but who the hell watches Sci-Fi/Doctor Who for "realism"? We just want a damn fun romp through time and space, and maybe learn a little something along the way. :P

I mean, I'm as progressive as the next person - and even I have to admit that even I got tired of it - ESPECIALLY since they lied when they said "it was just going to be made a point in a throw-away line in the first story". I've been a fan since the early 80s, and I agree the show definitely had its progressive roots and statements and I always applaud that. The only diff was it was once every 4th story, was also almost always a split second address or a throw-away line, and even then the writers always had more skill and tact to fit it in than always having the narrative equivalent of the word "Progressive Idea!" written on a 2x4 and slammed into the forehead of the viewer. ;P

I can't think of a single time Sarah Jane Smith had to express her sexual preference, can you?

I tended to feel like this season had a LOT of ham-fisted social commentary. I mean I enjoy social commentary, but it should be made through the lens of the show, even if that show takes place in real life, it shouldn't actually be a commentary ON REAL LIFE. Like, The Master never became Prime Minister IRL and there was plenty of social commentary during those events, but in this season they actually had Capaldi commenting on Trump's election, like I don't like Trump as much as the next liberal but seriously?

A lot of this season felt like "This is the last season of the show, we're going to do and say everything we ever wanted to do!" which...I didn't like. It's one thing to go out with a bang, it's another to go out with a wet fish and some ham.

I liked Nardole though.

[mvaliz]

except she didnt do that, ever. bills only mentioned her sexuality when someone flirted with her, or asked her out, or asked her about men she liked.

And that happened nearly every other episode.

Again, I always like to ask, when did people ask Sarah Jane Smith out or flirt with her? Shit... the only character I know who kinda had even the remotest of metaphorical "crushes" on her was the damn Robot from the first Tom Baker episode! ;P

How many times did Amy Pond have to turn down people? Howsabout Donna? Rarely, if ever... and that's because they concentrated on STORIES. :P

Noooow, with Jack... shit, that's the complete reverse of the same problem! ;P But Jack being flirtatous with everybody was written in as part of his character. IMO - a characters sexual preference of "Being Gay" should NEVER be the defining attribute for a character. Jack's character wasn't him being omnisexual... it was his WAY of being Omnisexual, amongst many other things, that defined his character! :P That's one thing Bill didn't really have. We saw Bill being the goofy sarcastic character, and then stop every once and again to give some awkward semi-serious point about her being gay, then back to being an actual character again. Just seems like those moments were "written in" just to be progressive, and not actually contribute to the evolution of the character and story whatsoever.

[Torto]

Dr Who: 1963 - 2017 RIP

Haven't watched the show in years but it's still sad to see it ending.

Look out James Bond, you are next on the SJW hit list.

[mvaliz]

but in this season they actually had Capaldi commenting on Trump's election, like I don't like Trump as much as the next liberal but seriously?

Did you miss the story where an aircraft crashed into a prominent landmark, and a group of businessmen used that event as a fear tactic to get the public into thinking an invasion was imminent by holders of "Massive Weapons of Destruction" - which was all a secret attempt to start a war that would, in the end, give them access to endless supplies of "raw fuel" to sell?

Am I talking about about 9/11 and the Iraq War, or am I talking about the Doctor Who Eccleston episode two parter ending with "World War III"? Did you really think it was NOT a social commentary on 9/11? ;P

In your defense though, they at least tried to hide the subtext (even if it was a somewhat flimsy attempt at best. :P)

EDIT: Oh, and don't forget about Donna's boyfriend or whomever being an Obama fanatic in the David Tennant finale! ;P

[Sunseeker]

Did you miss the story where an aircraft crashed into a prominent landmark, and a group of businessmen used that event as a fear tactic to get the public into thinking an invasion was imminent by holders of "Massive Weapons of Destruction" - which was all a secret attempt to start a war that would, in the end, give them access to endless supplies of "raw fuel" to sell?

Am I talking about about 9/11 and the Iraq War, or am I talking about the Doctor Who Eccleston episode two parter ending with "World War III"? Did you really think it was NOT a social commentary on 9/11? ;P

In your defense though, they at least tried to hide the subtext (even if it was a somewhat flimsy attempt at best. :P)

But that's my point, flimsy subtext is still subtext, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. But the goal should always be to utilize the story and elements of the show to make the social commentary and not just go "Dur hur hur Trump!"

[mvaliz]

But that's my point, flimsy subtext is still subtext, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. But the goal should always be to utilize the story and elements of the show to make the social commentary and not just go "Dur hur hur Trump!"

Beat me before I could add the edit.

They did that before also with Donna's Boyfriend or whomever being an Obama fanatic.

And yeah - I was kinda halfheartedly agreeing with you. Just pointing out that it's really nothing new and has been a problem with the new series for a while now - just kinda sloppy writing. :P

[De Lupe]

If BBC and Whittaker can make it work, then I have no issues.

I wish them the best of luck though... Rough waters ahead, I predict.

Then again, I said the same thing about Capaldi, and he turned out amazing...so only time will tell.

- - - Updated - - -

Did you miss the story where an aircraft crashed into a prominent landmark, and a group of businessmen used that event as a fear tactic to get the public into thinking an invasion was imminent by holders of "Massive Weapons of Destruction" - which was all a secret attempt to start a war that would, in the end, give them access to endless supplies of "raw fuel" to sell?

Am I talking about about 9/11 and the Iraq War, or am I talking about the Doctor Who Eccleston episode two parter ending with "World War III"? Did you really think it was NOT a social commentary on 9/11? ;P

Well, fuck. I never saw that connection before. And now I'll never be able to un-see it.

[mvaliz]

As a newfound truefan, I'll say that people bitch about every new Doctor for whatever reason, and eventually it clicks with the audience.

To be fair though, no - it really doesn't always click.

Capaldi is a prime example, along with Colin Baker and the 6th Doctor. With Capaldi I know of 3 real-life friends who have sworn off Doctor Who after trying to watch Capaldi's first season and they just couldn't do it. I've told them to just skip that one and go right to S2 as he's much better, and they didn't.

Colin was the same - the Directors had him play a very rude, egomeniacle and even somewhat violent Doctor in the beginning all while wearing the worlds most rediculous outfit ever - and that transition killed viewers... that ultimately led to its cancelation after 3 years, where Sylvester McCoy's performance couldn't even save the show!

[mvaliz]

Well, fuck. I never saw that connection before. And now I'll never be able to un-see it.

Haha! =D I had a co-worker who said she hated when shows did topical subjects, and yet she was a big Who-fan. I told her what I wrote above and she actually started crying! I kinda felt bad for her! =P

But, I think right there you proved Smrund's point. You didn't see it as it was written (at least somewhat) better.

[Sierra85]

Apparently you're either happy it's a woman Doctor or you're a complete piece of shit. there is no inbetween.