Why can't casters cast while moving?

[FelPlague]

I'll take "Interrupts" for $500, Alex.

Also, at the moment, melee and ranged do the same DPS for the most part, so....yeah.



What Legion are you playing where Spriest is "the most mobile caster" ?

You can't channel Mind Flay or cast Mind Blast while moving, so having to move to do a mechanic or something causes you to drop voidform, which is a massive blow to your DPS.

melee have interupts aswell
melee have to be well in melee meaning deal with tank mechanics and harder to see, plus well have to be in melee

[Hctaz]

All of that aside, there's also a big gaping hole in the design space for at least one caster spec that can sling spells while on the move. Legion has seen a big push towards making specs feel distinct from one another, and yet there's not a single caster who bucks the trend of being handicapped while mobile. I really hope we see an evolution of caster mobility in the future rather than the current regression we've been stuck in since WoD. There are much better ways to handle it than going back to the Vanilla design of making everyone a turret.

But this the design of casters though. It doesn't make any sense to just give a caster the gimmick of being able to move while casting. They all have their own unique forms of movement. If you want a mobile caster class then play mage. They're probably the class with the most damage while moving and the best mobility spells with Shimmer.

The point is that you can't just break the rules of the game for one class. They did it with Demon hunters and double jump and they already sweated that one out and had to patch in invisible walls in certain areas to prevent DHs from breaking shit but that's just an exploration mechanic. Like... the point of casters is turret and the point of melee is, well, melee skills. Each melee has their own strengths and weaknesses in terms of mobility. Some are just more mobile than others. Dks are maybe the most gimmicky out of them all as they have actual ranged abilities, but I don't agree with that design anyway so... that's a different argument.

[Hypasonic]

I remember elemental being like this during WoD I believe, they could cast lightning bolt (and only that) while moving. It felt nice, I think most if not al casters should have some ability they can cast while moving, akin to fire mages scorch (or atleast, an older iteration) whereby, its a spell that is castable while moving but at the cost of overall DPS, still better than not casting anything.

[GutsAP]

Why do melee have to be in melee range to hit something?

Answer that one.

[vertigo12]

So what? With Lingering Insanity and Legacy of the Void you're back in Voidform within <10 seconds with some stacks you can build on.

Update: I just tested it because I really wanted to know how "bad" it is - well, I'm getting +20 stacks by just using Void Bolt and Mind Blast after entering Void Form and I just need ~ 10 seconds after I left Void Form to get back into Void Form. There are no movement phases where you can't fit into Mind Blast or at least 1-2 ticks Mind Flay. You can use Dispersion and Mind Bender as well. It's not as bad as some of you want it to make.



You have no clue what you're talking about.

I guess it's plain in simple, this guy has no clue on how to use his SP skills properly. And forgot that WoW isn't 1000000000000000000000000% just doing DPS. He forgot you have to run out of the flame/void patches, you have to disrupt/interrupt enemy cast time, you have to jump to avoid damage and use whatever your skills are just to surive cause a dead DPS is 0% damage.

[Deleted]

Because balance.

Casters having to be immobile to max out their deeps is balanced with melee having to be in melee range to max out their deeps.

"How long can i stand still and nuke things while ignoring mechanics" vs "shit i need to move because at this point mechanics > deeps"

It works perfectly. Having to balance standing still to max out deeps vs moving to deal with mechanics is a good thing. And it's the exact same balance that melee have of staying in melee range to max out deeps vs moving to deal with mechanics.

Removing this would dumb down how WoW boss encounters work.

[Wondercrab]

But this the design of casters though. It doesn't make any sense to just give a caster the gimmick of being able to move while casting. They all have their own unique forms of movement. If you want a mobile caster class then play mage. They're probably the class with the most damage while moving and the best mobility spells with Shimmer.

The point is that you can't just break the rules of the game for one class. They did it with Demon hunters and double jump and they already sweated that one out and had to patch in invisible walls in certain areas to prevent DHs from breaking shit but that's just an exploration mechanic. Like... the point of casters is turret and the point of melee is, well, melee skills. Each melee has their own strengths and weaknesses in terms of mobility. Some are just more mobile than others. Dks are maybe the most gimmicky out of them all as they have actual ranged abilities, but I don't agree with that design anyway so... that's a different argument.

Why not, though? There's nothing in the design of the game stopping them from making casters more mobile. They've done it in the past, and it's not something that causes fundamental mechanical issues like a double jump. So long as it happened at the beginning of a new expansion and they designed encounters with it in mind there wouldn't be any problems, and they'd open up way more room for them to be creative with the kinds of mobility challenges they implemented.

Really though, the issue is mostly just that it's not particularly fun to have periods of dead time in the middle of an encounter where you have to interrupt WoW's core gameplay loop every time you move somewhere. The stuttery stop-and-start nature of it makes the problem even worse, completely breaking up the natural ebb and flow of the rotation. It's fine to design casters in a way that encourages more thought about movement and positioning, but having to mash one or two buttons (or worse, do nothing at all) while you move just isn't particularly fun or engaging.

[Better]

Because when you're able to cast and move 100% of the time, suddenly a lot of AoE mechanics can actually miss you entirely, which can negate the mechanic. Playing hunter for a long time teaches you this, and honestly I think this is why hunter mobility got tuned down this expac.

If all casters could do this raids would be really chaotic, with people running around like crazy trying to dodge mechanics. And the only way they could tune around it would be to make the AoEs larger, which would hurt you more if you weren't doing this in the first place...

[Tpyo]

because traditionally a caster needs utmost concentration to cast a fireball and not incinerate themselves.

I agree somewhat.

I wouldn't mind seeing a system where more 'filler' spells are made cast while moving eg. the Lightning Bolts, Incinerates, Fireballs, Frostbolts, etc... But I'd think it's fitting that more powerful spells (Chaos Bolt/Pyro(who doesn't cast this with hot streak outside of a legendary usage though?)/Lava Burst/Ebonchill/etc...) requiring a casttime because lore-wise I feel like our characters cast those fillers flawlessly enough that they're casting them in their sleep. But I could definitely see the argument that channeling more energy would have more dire consequences and require concentration and no movement.

[Polarthief]

Because there'd never be a reason to play melee if that was possible.

Except for them usually being able to strike a target much quicker and harder in a short duration?

People seem to always overlook this and it's silly. I remember a certain spine-like boss that even required heavy burst players

Here's a few other things about Melee vs Ranged:
- Most melee tend to have great ST DPS (vital to many bosses), while most ranged tend to have better AoE (though plenty of melee also have great burst AoE, and Combat is arguably one of the best sustained AoE in the game).
- Melee are hardier and usually have their own form of healing or DR. With the exception of Warlocks, ranged are not nearly as well off.
- Every melee in the game has an interrupt of 15s or shorter. Most ranged have the 24s interrupt slot or even worse (Balance Druid has 45/60s! Warlock doesn't even get one if they don't use a Doomguard or Felhunter!).

[Dondar01]

I'd say that standing still while casting is just logic? Imagine you are able to call forth great magical powers. It probably won't be as easy as breathing. You'd have to focus all the power of your mind into it. And what is the best way to use your brain! Standing (sitting) still ofcourse so you can put all your focus into the spell.

[AlphaOut]

Have you ever tried casting a spell irl?? That shits nearly impossible.

[Deleted]

So what? With Lingering Insanity and Legacy of the Void you're back in Voidform within <10 seconds with some stacks you can build on.

Update: I just tested it because I really wanted to know how "bad" it is - well, I'm getting +20 stacks by just using Void Bolt and Mind Blast after entering Void Form and I just need ~ 10 seconds after I left Void Form to get back into Void Form. There are no movement phases where you can't fit into Mind Blast or at least 1-2 ticks Mind Flay. You can use Dispersion and Mind Bender as well. It's not as bad as some of you want it to make.



You have no clue what you're talking about.

Are you seriously claiming that 20 stacks of VF is high?

[ThrashMetalFtw]

So what? With Lingering Insanity and Legacy of the Void you're back in Voidform within <10 seconds with some stacks you can build on.

Update: I just tested it because I really wanted to know how "bad" it is - well, I'm getting +20 stacks by just using Void Bolt and Mind Blast after entering Void Form and I just need ~ 10 seconds after I left Void Form to get back into Void Form. There are no movement phases where you can't fit into Mind Blast or at least 1-2 ticks Mind Flay. You can use Dispersion and Mind Bender as well. It's not as bad as some of you want it to make.

This just proves that you have no idea how Shadow works. The entire point of Shadow in its current state, is to do 55-60 sec Voidform rotations that line up perfectly with your Mindbender CD. If you fall out of VF at 30-40 stacks, your MB won't be ready the next time you want to use it, which results in your next Voidform being pretty much just a waste.


Oh and yeah, feel free to list any other casters that suffer as much as SPs do from movement. Demo is up there, as I already said. Somebody mentioned Ele and Destro, but both have it significantly easier than Shadow, in that they only lose a few casts, while Shadow loses your entire momentum, fucking up your Dps for the next minute at least.

What else? Mages and Hunters are out for obvious reasons. Aff and Boomkins are both similair to Shadow, in that they are DoTbased specs, but none of them have a draining resource that requires you to keep casting to keep your Dps up. They can simply move to where they wish to be, and start casting again as if nothing happened. They don't lose 1 minute of momentum/resourcebuilding, but only a few GCDs worth of dmg.

You seem to be missing the point here. Shadow doesn't suffer from movement because we can't do Dps while moving (we can infact Dps quite well while moving). Shadow suffers because any nonstutter movement between 30 and 60 VF stacks (where your actual Dps is done) will result in you falling out of VF too early, causing your MB CD to go out of sync with your VF,. This results in your having to do a "no MB/VoiT VF" to play catch up with your MB CD, to get it back in sync with your 1min VF rotations again. This is basically 1 minute of subpar Dps (if you missed it the first time, most of your Dps as a Shadow Priest is done between 30 and 60 stacks, so your Dps is obviously going to suffer if you can't keep your VF up longer than the early 30s, which is what happens when you do a VF without MB/VoiT).

[Deleted]

it was there in MoP, and other than rogues, you really didn't want any melee at all over ranged( specially locks) so they got rid of it. Good grief

[Traveler Voltin]

Hunters say hi.

Hunter isnt a caster

[Ssateneth]

Why can't melee do full damage rotation from ranged @op?

[Thetruth1400]

When casters could move and cast at the same time, melee became useless. What he said was correct, and Blizzard just tried to enforce it a bit with Legion, to give melee a place in PvE.

That's the thing though. If they kept melee how they used to be and just made ranged stationary, it wouldn't be a problem. That's not what they did though. Not only did they make ranged stationary, but they made melee hyper mobile. It should have been an either or situation, not a do both one.

[xChurch]

I feel like part if it is due to the skill gap you'd start to see with various ranged players. Some people would be able to move and cast easily all the time whereas others wouldn't and it would really show in the charts. At a high enough level of play that wouldn't be an issue but most of the player base doesn't play anywhere near that level.

[Bryntrollian]

We had that in Mist of Pandaria and it was amazing