Thread: [TV] Doctor Who

  1. #11041
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Beat me before I could add the edit.

    They did that before also with Donna's Boyfriend or whomever being an Obama fanatic.

    And yeah - I was kinda halfheartedly agreeing with you. Just pointing out that it's really nothing new and has been a problem with the new series for a while now - just kinda sloppy writing. :P
    It's not just the new series, it's a problem with a lot of TV shows, it's just quick, lazy writing which I'm really hoping the loss of Moffat will help cure.
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  2. #11042
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Current events lead you to think they're pandering?
    Its is pandering when it IS pandering. No matter how HARD you wanna deny it.
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    And one response to being tired could be to completely change himself up, try something new, and find purpose again in his next regeneration.
    And next you gonna claim only a woman can be a good parent and care for people, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    3) "But this is pandering to do it now! Do it in the 1980s!" Well, hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? In the 80s, at least in the U.S., it was still legal to beat your wife "as long as it didn't leave a mark."
    And sci fi from the uk has to do what with shitty us law?
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I think one thing most sides forget is how radically society was changed in the past 15 years in terms of social equality. Growing up in the 80s and 90s, it was still not okay to be gay
    You must have been grown up in a real bad country. still what have gay rights in the us to do with a sci fi show from the uk?

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    When I was in high school in the late 90s, a gay teen was dragged behind a pickup truck til he died, for being gay, and this didn't occur in some third world country, but Texas.
    Is this some form of sarcasm?

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    That maybe the female regeneration is a last ditch effort on the Doctor's part to see if changing things up helps the inherent pain the Doctor has always felt.
    hopefully not. THIS is the exact terrible woman are better writing I DONT want.

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Particularly, I want them to explore the idea Bill's Cyberman offered: "I'm not me in this new body, and if I'm not me, I don't want to live."
    What? that silliness is contrary to Time Lords not giving a crap about the fact if they are male or female

  3. #11043
    was expecting Capaldi to become the Valeyard. i'm disappointed.

    They just gave up to "Diversity-shitstorm". This last season wasnt nearly as great as it could be, The Double Master had potential to be one of the greatest villains the doctor faced, but instead we just got some masterdrama and the big villain? AGAIN ITS THE CYBERMANS.

    i hope the Xmas Special don't suck that much, but i think thats the last season that got me excited for Dr.Who.
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  4. #11044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    Apparently you're either happy it's a woman Doctor or you're a complete piece of shit. there is no inbetween.
    Yes its Ghostbusters 2016 all over. Welcome to the age of black and white

  5. #11045
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Current events lead you to think they're pandering? They first suggested a female doctor in 1999, and then, what, 4/5 years ago they introduced the idea that regenerations could be of different genders.

    Let's address a few things:
    1) Someone asked why, if Timelords can regen into anything, why not a woman before this? That'd make sense if the regeneration was completely random - like pulling the slot machine arm and seeing what comes up. But there's at least been an inkling that who the Doctor becomes is kind of a decision, or at least influenced, by the dying Doctor's mindset. There's an angry Eccleston, who wanted to stop being angry, but then turned into a quite sad-but-loving Tennant ("the one who wants to remember). Tennant didn't want to go, he wanted to live in the moment, and became Smith, the goofy kid hiding out ("the one who wants to forget). Smith's Doctor literally went to his death and lived longer than most other regenerations. He literally faced his true death, and was then given a new set of regenerations - and he regenerated into an older, wiser, but bit cynical Doctor - Capaldi. There's this mindset that influences the choices.
    That doesn't answer the question.

    2) "But the General seemed to switch back and forth!" Maybe that's the type of person the General was. Someone who liked to explore. Something I think NuWho has done fairly well is explore that the Doctor sometimes falls back into what he's comfortable with instead of mixing it up - this was especially true of Capaldi's Doctor. He could have easily been a white male for 13 regenerations because *he himself* thought of himself as such. The question will be whether the writing can convince us that the Doctor needed a super radical change to re-find himself.
    Moffat has already said that he doesn't want to change because he's tired of changing, not because he wants to be a white male. He doesn't want to keep running away from everything. I took that to mean that after what happened to both Clara and Bill, he's decided that he needs to face the music and be who he is, not use another get out of jail free card and run away.

    3) "But this is pandering to do it now! Do it in the 1980s!" Well, hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? In the 80s, at least in the U.S., it was still legal to beat your wife "as long as it didn't leave a mark." I think one thing most sides forget is how radically society was changed in the past 15 years in terms of social equality. Growing up in the 80s and 90s, it was still not okay to be gay, I had friends who were disowned during those decades for it and no one thought twice about it. Gay people were super closeted, and the only gay people you knew of were famous and could fall back on their fame, like Freddie Mercury. When I was in high school in the late 90s, a gay teen was dragged behind a pickup truck til he died, for being gay, and this didn't occur in some third world country, but Texas. Sooooooo much has changed, and I think millennials (on both sides of the issue) forget how quickly it has changed. They could have made Eccleston's Doctor a woman - but I doubt it would have made it past that first season.
    Hindsight? It has nothing to do with hindsight. My point was, why not make the Doctor a woman when it would have really meant something? When it would have been a real breakthrough for a TV show to have a female lead, or have a male lead change to a female lead. Now we've had Starbuck, and the Ghostbusters, and people look at it as what the entertainment industry does when it can't come up with a better idea.

    And you don't have to tell me about how bad it was for gay people in the 80s and 90s. I had a friend who was disowned by her parents because she was gay, and that was in the early 90s. I know quite well what gay people went through back then. And just to make a further point, let's go back even further - what gender was Doctor Who's first producer?

    Oh, that's right.

    Female.

    And what decade was that again?

    So don't give me that "society has changed" argument. In some ways, Doctor Who has been leading the change. In this way, however, it's just following the trend. And that's disappointing.
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  6. #11046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faifel View Post
    When would it not be pandering to use the established gender swap regeneration?
    after ecclestone, after tennath, after smith.
    Not these days when every Femnazis is screaming that every established patriarch role has to be torn down and replaced by male because otherwise its sexism. And when you dont belive it its sexism.

    Meanwhile I sit here and wonder when Time Lords are so above us humans why are we only seeing WHITE Doctors....
    (might just be me but I personally want a blue one, now that'll be something new)
    Last edited by mmoc25fb373f9a; 2017-07-16 at 11:25 PM.

  7. #11047
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Haha! =D I had a co-worker who said she hated when shows did topical subjects, and yet she was a big Who-fan. I told her what I wrote above and she actually started crying! I kinda felt bad for her! =P

    But, I think right there you proved Smrund's point. You didn't see it as it was written (at least somewhat) better.
    You destroyed her Who fantasies! You monster! =-P

    All-in-all, I don't see any political/social bullshit when I watch DW. I recognize some of the social stuff, but then I dismiss it. Current events are always going to shape the show. As long as the core of the show stays the same, I'm okay with whatever they throw at us. I don't see a left/right/feminist/pudding -brain agenda. I see a 2000+ year old time traveling adventurer who occasionally drags people into his little insanity bubble because he is lonely and wants to show off a bit. I don't separate the Doctor based on the actor. To me, each actor is just a different phase of the Doctor's life, but they are all the exact same person; THE DOCTOR!

    (Hurt) - The war hero who fought and killed millions to save his planet but obviously takes no joy in what is happening around him. Desperate to stop the war, he makes the ultimate sacrifice.
    (Eccelston) - The war ends and he tries to rebuild the shattered pieces of his identity. He's trying to become himself again, but he's still stuck in warrior mode. Along the way, he meets a young woman. Through her care and love, he slowly starts to heal.
    (Tennant) - He's recovering, but there is still the obvious signs of war trauma haunting him as he remembers the many things he did. He regrets the things he's done and wishes he could undo them. And yet, his losses are not done. He loses the girl who healed him, then the girl he tried to replace her with, and then a best friend he didn't know he wanted. The pain of his losses has reached an unbearable level.
    (Smith) - So he tries to forget. He becomes a bit absent minded; forgetting words, details, and even his own age sometimes. He's an old man now. Desperate to forget his past, he tries to reclaim his youth; a midlife crisis of sorts. He starts to act "cool" and "hip" and "with it" like all the youngsters he sees, but in a way that only an awkward old man can do. Fast forward a few centuries and he is now on his deathbed. He finally stops trying to forget his past and accepts it.
    (Capaldi) - Given a fresh start on life, he stops pretending. He accepts his age, he accepts his sins, he accepts his burdens. The pain of his past no longer haunts him, as he has accepted it, but it will never truly fade from him; it helped him to understand true suffering. And it made him kind. Not nice, kind. He's tired of everyone's shit. He is an old, grouchy man with a soft heart. The woman he loved has died. Despite her time traveling antics, he is not likely to ever see her again as her past self had no knowledge of his new face and her future self...doesn't exist. His best friend since childhood came to him with a new body he had never expected. She, strange as it sounds, found a sense of peace in that new body. "Perhaps it would work for him too?" he starts to think; maybe not even aware that he's thinking it. "Maybe he could give it a try, just to see if it helps. Why not? I'm a new Doctor now. Why not try some new things?" It could be argued that Bill's tear maybe influenced this decision, but...
    (Whittaker) - We'll have to wait and see.

    People get so wrapped up in who is playing the Doctor, that they dismiss the whole story of the Doctor. I don't care if he's a man, a woman, black, gay, a Dalek, a cat nun, or a Nestene duplicate. He's the fucking Doctor! He will NEVER not be the Doctor to me. Even if he is a she.
    Last edited by De Lupe; 2017-07-16 at 11:42 PM.

  8. #11048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    Yes its Ghostbusters 2016 all over. Welcome to the age of black and white
    Pretty sure you're not allowed to say Black and White anymore...
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  9. #11049
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    It's not just the new series, it's a problem with a lot of TV shows, it's just quick, lazy writing which I'm really hoping the loss of Moffat will help cure.
    Hrmmmm... I'm not 100% sure that this is just something "new" with TV today. It has been around for quite some time... but probably not as "often" as we've seen it in New-Who.

    I mean, look at Star Trek. An all racially-diverse crew, the first interracial kiss on TV? And lets not forget both Babylon 5 and Deep Space 9 all dealt with the topic of major characters being "gay" (and don't say DS9 tried to cover it up via plot... it was a more obviously thinly covered veiled than the reasons for Vashra and Jennies "kiss" scene! ;P) and Bab-5 especially having racism topics (particularly with the flashbacks to the 1950s Sci-fi writer who was (gasp!) Black!!)

    Also, have you ever considered what we have had this all our lives growing up? Do you know how many of our parents asked "Why is there always a black man in our shows?" starting with pointing to Lando in Empire Strikes Back? Even South Park made that into a joke with the character "Token". That's now something we take for granted every day.

    The reality is also this - we're starting to become our jaded parents longing for the good ol' stories we grew up with and were used to! Not saying we're "wrong", but We gotta be careful not to become them! :P

    Ironically, I find myself having the opposite problem - particularly with some of the DC Television universe stuff. I jokingly tell people "Why are people so preoccupied by the breakout of "meta humans"!? Shouldn't they be also wondering about this other weird breakout of perfect-bodied beautiful twenty-year-old men and women who are super geniuses and insanely rich!?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Pretty sure you're not allowed to say Black and White anymore...
    [[[insert 50 shades of grey joke here]]]

  10. #11050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Do care that this actress has never shown anything I would consider worthy of the Doctor. Smith was an unknown and turned out ok, so who knows?
    They normally pick exceptional actors to be Dr Who - Smith was the only one I had not heard of and he turned out fine, like you say. Did you not see Broadchurch or, if you did, did you not like Whittaker in that? She was the standout in the last season, I thought - which is saying something, given she was competing with Tennant, Coleman, Darvill and Buchan.

    She depicted this calm, thoughtful and grounded character, still scarred by the loss of the child and the breaking of her husband, but determined to move on and make something good of her life, for herself and those around her. I confess I was quite smitten. The bizarre thing is that I can see nothing whatsoever in that character that would relate to the Doctor. But then again, I suspect as a actor, she will be able to ... well, act a different part.

  11. #11051
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    In some ways, Doctor Who has been leading the change. In this way, however, it's just following the trend. And that's disappointing.
    The stuff about Verity was all behind the scenes at one point in the show's history. The show itself really always just mirrored today - it never really "led" change, it just reflected society back at us and asked "why?".

    Go-Go outfits in 1966, hippies the early 1970s, womens libbers in mid 70s, brash rebel teenagers in the early 1980s... These were not led by Who, these were reflections of the eras...

    Same goes with today, the only difference is there's a LOT of social issues today than there were back then - thanks in part to the internet media in making everything more visible than it used to be.

    And we've got lazy hack writers wanting to "be bold" penning individual 40 minute episodes instead of a 4 part 2-hour story that Classic used to be. That doesn't help either. :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    The bizarre thing is that I can see nothing whatsoever in that character that would relate to the Doctor. But then again, I suspect as a actor, she will be able to ... well, act a different part.
    That's my concern too.

    This was my big deal with the announcement of RTD. All that guy ever penned was Character Studies, and never actually wrote anything involving sci-fi/a plot outside of character drama. And, IMO, it showed. His stories were flawed pieces of shit, but when he sat two characters down at a table and had them talk - it was Pure Television Gold! You can see this perfectly in the controversial "Love and Monsters" episode. The first half with the characters meeting and helping eachother was great... right up to the point the Absorbaloff came in and the (for lack of a better term) plot kicked off. (And don't give me that crap about the kid drawing the Abzorbaloff for Blue Peter! He just made the creature design, RTD wrote the story!)

  12. #11052
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    The stuff about Verity was all behind the scenes at one point in the show's history. The show itself really always just mirrored today - it never really "led" change, it just reflected society back at us and asked "why?".

    Go-Go outfits in 1966, hippies the early 1970s, womens libbers in mid 70s, brash rebel teenagers in the early 1980s... These were not led by Who, these were reflections of the eras...

    Same goes with today, the only difference is there's a LOT of social issues today than there were back then - thanks in part to the internet media in making everything more visible than it used to be.

    And we've got lazy hack writers wanting to "be bold" penning individual 40 minute episodes instead of a 4 part 2-hour story that Classic used to be. That doesn't help either. :P
    Doesn't change the fact that a woman was producer of a show in 1963. How long was it before that happened again? On either side of the Atlantic? And not just Verity Lambert. Barbara and Susan were hardly the typical TV or film women of the time, were they? They didn't scream or faint every time they got scared, they didn't sit around waiting for the men to come rescue them. Look at Barbara in "Edge of Destruction". In the midst of everything that's going on, she's the one who stands up to the Doctor. Not a lot of female characters on TV like either of them, wouldn't you say?
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  13. #11053
    Ive seen every episode of Dr Who from An unearthly Child to the last episode and i suppose maybe it was time to mix it up a little.

    But why didnt they go with a much older woman? To me the Doctor is not suppose to be some young trendy go getter but instead a old stuffy eccentric Victorian adventurer is the way ive always seen the character.

    I guess its pointless to be upset the way new who has been heading so i guess i will just watch and see and ifs its shite i will just stop watching and put on some classic Tom Baker to make me feel better.

  14. #11054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    Also a male companion maybe?
    Will I finally get my male companion that I have been bitching about?

    Honestly I don't mind a female companion...as long as they don't go the whole ham fisted "woman are awesome!" theme. Just like they did at the end of last episode. So the record isn't looking good. I just want them at the end of the episode her regening then figuring out "I'm a woman!" and it is not really spoken about ever again. Maybe a fun first episode about her not knowing how to be a woman and such, that could be fun, but after that, you don't really need to bring it up.

    And I hope she does not stick with the short hair, I would rather her have longer hair myself.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  15. #11055
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that a woman was producer of a show in 1963. How long was it before that happened again? On either side of the Atlantic? And not just Verity Lambert. Barbara and Susan were hardly the typical TV or film women of the time, were they? They didn't scream or faint every time they got scared, they didn't sit around waiting for the men to come rescue them. Look at Barbara in "Edge of Destruction". In the midst of everything that's going on, she's the one who stands up to the Doctor. Not a lot of female characters on TV like either of them, wouldn't you say?
    Again, you're talking the series start - and let me at least say while i TOTALLY agree with your views on the original crew (particularly Susan's bold look/outfit for 1960s England! I had a total crush on her! ^_^)... do consider post-original TARDIS crew that those ideas completely dissipated and, indeed, went the OPPOSITE direction! Vicki, Dodo, Polly, Victoria (Holy shit... ESPECIALLY Victoria!) and so on became "Screamers" who classically "Made tea and asked the Doctor a lot of questions"... this became a staple ALL the way up to Bonnie Langford, who famously tells her bitter tale of how she had to "Scream at the note of C" to end an episode so that her scream melded with the end credit stinger! Shit, this is why it took Janet Feilding decades to warm back up to Doctor Who cuz she thought it was too anti-female! :P The only couple breakthroughs in that was Sarah Jane (she was just a WONDERFULLY NORMAL human being!), Leela (something Louise Jameson had to fight tooth-and-nail with the script writers AND Tom Baker to keep in for her character!) and Ace. I'd throw Zoe into the mix with her intelligence, but sadly she kinda ended up being mostly eye-candy scream-bait as well. >_< Romana II took that mantle, was amazing and - quite possibly - my favorite companion. Romana I though was the opposite...sans Douglas Adams way of writing her in "The Pirate Planet" :P
    Last edited by mvaliz; 2017-07-17 at 12:06 AM.

  16. #11056
    I'll watch it does not bother me one bit its a female.

    She kinda looks like the female version of David Tennat.
    Rest is up to her and the writing.

  17. #11057
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Will I finally get my male companion that I have been bitching about?

    Honestly I don't mind a female companion...as long as they don't go the whole ham fisted "woman are awesome!" theme. Just like they did at the end of last episode. So the record isn't looking good. I just want them at the end of the episode her regening then figuring out "I'm a woman!" and it is not really spoken about ever again. Maybe a fun first episode about her not knowing how to be a woman and such, that could be fun, but after that, you don't really need to bring it up.

    And I hope she does not stick with the short hair, I would rather her have longer hair myself.
    Honestly, they will need to have a male companion on principle. The reason we've always had a female companion wasn't because of any Doctoral sexual preference like the fanfic writers love to theorycraft about, but simply because of viewing demographics and logistics demanding a female lead to balance audience viewership out. :P

    It's very VERY rare you can nail a show with 2 main stars being the same gender. Only two I can think of are Zena and Supernatural... and I think we all know why those two are special omissions (campy ladyfighters/Bromance respectively!. ;P)

    yeah, I'd be fine with one episode (hell, it kinda demands it!) with the Doctor getting used to being a woman after all these years and some social commentary about it, but I also hope they don't constantly press EVERY episode about it! She's the Doctor. She's about adventures in time and space. Capaldi didn't drone on about "Being old" in every episode...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebalina View Post
    She kinda looks like the female version of David Tennant.
    I'd WISH she was the female equivalent of Tennant - and that's one of the only problems I have with her. She's the stereotypical "Physically flawless Thirtysomething Blonde bombshell". David Tennant was a pencil thin, funky-haired dork - but made it look all sexy somehow. What we saw today was sadly an old Hollywood setereotype.
    I would've LOVED her to have short funky hair, or maybe some slightly larger eyes - or a large toothy comic grin. How she was presented was a bit too "photoshop flawless", not an eccentric indidvidual... which I'm REALLY hoping they offset with her costume/character being quirky/eccentric.

  18. #11058
    I'm not a fan of the female doctor at all, I thought Eddie Redmayne would make a fantastic doctor. I know he's a bit more high profile these days but he has that quirky and eccentric feel that the Doctor should have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwr3UMTS6Mo

    Now they've gone down the female route, the one lady who springs to mind who I think could possibly pull it of would of been Olivia Colman. But we shall see, I'm not shall we say, hyped for the next series.
    Last edited by Razaron; 2017-07-17 at 12:39 AM.

  19. #11059
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    I would've LOVED her to have short funky hair, or maybe some slightly larger eyes - or a large toothy comic grin. How she was presented was a bit too "photoshop flawless", not an eccentric indidvidual... which I'm REALLY hoping they offset with her costume/character being quirky/eccentric.
    she's definitely going to have that doctor-y quirk to her, and shes going to be very smart (not a blonde ditz)
    Hi

  20. #11060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    she's definitely going to have that doctor-y quirk to her, and shes going to be very smart (not a blonde ditz)
    We don't know that yet, we have no idea about her personality or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Honestly, they will need to have a male companion on principle. The reason we've always had a female companion wasn't because of any Doctoral sexual preference like the fanfic writers love to theorycraft about, but simply because of viewing demographics and logistics demanding a female lead to balance audience viewership out. :P

    It's very VERY rare you can nail a show with 2 main stars being the same gender. Only two I can think of are Zena and Supernatural... and I think we all know why those two are special omissions (campy ladyfighters/Bromance respectively!. ;P)

    yeah, I'd be fine with one episode (hell, it kinda demands it!) with the Doctor getting used to being a woman after all these years and some social commentary about it, but I also hope they don't constantly press EVERY episode about it! She's the Doctor. She's about adventures in time and space. Capaldi didn't drone on about "Being old" in every episode...
    Yeah, I am sad that the male companion will come about because a female companion.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

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