Is 110 too high a level for new players?

[Omega10]

Let me see if I understood that correctly.

Your friends used the boost and got overwhelmed because they didn't have pre-100 experience playing their characters. Then they made new characters and got frustrated because they weren't leveling fast enough?

I think I need to repeat - this game just wasn't for them.

That is kind of a nice answer, and it has some factual merit to it. However, if the game is not for "anyone who is not already playing" ... then there is no new growth for WOW, and WOW goes away rather quickly. Selling WOW to new players is a very non-trivial task - if it were simple WOW and other MMORPGs would be growing quite nicely. If you dismiss all of your potential customers, you won't get any new ones.

The OP started a discussion about what can be done to make WOW more appealing to new players. Your response seemed to be to dismiss the idea of trying to make the game appealing to them. I am with the OP on this one.

[MonsieuRoberts]

I don't think the level cap is too high at all, it takes a week or two for someone brand new to reach 110.

I do think having a huge majority of that leveling process consumed by old and irrelevant content is a detriment to someone new to MMOs trying to understand exactly what's going on and what they should be focusing on. "You can basically ignore everything that happens from 1 to 100, none of it matters; Legion is where the REAL game begins." This isn't a thought process that's carried forth in a lot of other titles I don't think. Someone who "plays games" might think that a game with a ton of expansions and years of content means that there's tons to do just like a game on sale on Steam that has 15 DLCs, like Shadow of Mordor or something like that, but may be confused to know that almost ALL of that past expansion content is bypassed when leveling and completely irrelevant to their progression. "What did I buy this Cataclysm expansion for if we're just going to run 5 dungeons from it for a few hours? Can't I just skip it if I'm not going to play it?" Also, Imagine jumping from your shiny PS4 titles to Westfall or Barrens. The leveling experience looks like shit. What a turn-off. "You're telling me I have to play in these terrible looking zones for how many levels until I can get to something that looks like it was released a few years ago? Why? It gets worse the closer to 60 I get? What??? Why can't I skip all of this, why do I have to pay an extra $60 just to play the modern version of this game? How come they didn't just release a WoW 2 without the old stuff?"

What older players understand about this archaic MMO, newer players scratch their heads at. If there's going to continue to be newer players, content that is by-and-large irrelevant to them should be bypassed. Blizz knows this too, since they offer boosts to pre-max level.

I still think something more than "join a guild bro" should be done to help someone new to the game understand that most of what they're buying is access to transmog runs and XP-less questing, since they're rushing to current content anyway. If they love the exploration and lore and want to run a ton of that stuff solo and understand that they're purchasing access to content that's no longer relevant to character progression, they're not going to be bewildered by the existence of old content expansion packs to begin with.

Here's a question to answer your question; What kind of new players do you want to see? Players that have no fundamental bearing on MMO systems and playstyles? If so, you're going to see a lot of old WoW dumbed down and cast out, as it only serves to confound that swath of players. Talents and class mechanics will be simplified, leveling will become trivial, there will be easier access to that meaningful content and the rewards it provides, stuff like that.

Sound familiar to you?

I'd say that a lot of WoW's recent change has been directly because of that. Contouring the game to be much more receptive to "My bud plays that Warcraft game and so do I now I guess" and "I used to sell MC runs but now I have kids and can only run LFR".

I say it in every thread about stuff like this; The game is changing. That's not a bad thing, just a new thing, and that new thing might not be for you.

[Deleted]

The boost is not a solution. Every new character needs to start in the latest expansion, to enable class switching. You cannot expect new players to know what class they'd like to play... or to level 1 -110 for each one they'd like to try.

And thats what class trials is about....

[Stormspark]

Nope, it's a number. 1-110 takes a lot less time than 1-60 did in vanilla.

[Seranthor]

Recently i've tried getting both my girlfriend, and 2 other IRL friends, all of which are into games, to start WoW. Only my GF made it to level 110. All 3 however were incredibly put off by the idea of levelling through 110 levels. Now, as a regular player, we know it doesnt take that long. But when someone hears "Yeah, so, to get to the main chunk of the game you gotta level up 110 times before you can start to do the same content as everyone else" the general reply is to complain about how ridiculous that is. Its got me thinking of how many potential new players WoW is losing simply from the idea that levelling so much is gonna take an incredible amount of effort and time. Im not saying WoW is doomed, based on experiences in game, it feels pretty healthy and highly populated, but is it time blizzard decided to do a level squish of sorts? I'm not even personally sure how they would do this, but surely it would make the game more attractive to potential new players?

So your 'solution' is to shit on everyone that earned their levels and effectively steal their time and effort and drive them away so you 'MIGHT' be able to attract new people? Um, No.

[Sanguinerd]

It all depends on WHY they start playing, I can imagine if they start playing because someone who's already 110 asked them too talking about endgame and stuff it isn't really a fun experience no. (not saying that's what happened)

If people start playing this game and actually take the time to do it "right" level 110 isn't too high, but people want to rush things, everything has to go fast.

There are so many nice story lines to follow, so many things to discover, to learn to achieve to gather etc. You just have to take your time and be open to it, not get blind sighted by endgame only.

[Donald Hellscream]

The number itself might be a bit jarring for new players but even without heirlooms the first 60 levels can be done in less than 24 hours so After a day they'd already be more than halfway to the cap, leveling from 1-110 can be Done in less a week which I don't Think is too long for new players

[Seranthor]

Actually 2/3 of them did make a boosted character, but after finishing the brief intro, which only teaches you a few of your actually abilities, they were immediately overwhelmed by the amount of talents, and abilities in the spellbook that they had no idea how to use properly. It works well for learning a basic rotation, but after that new players who use the boost are flung in with no real guidance past that. And as for other MMOs with better levelling - im not sure. I would also be interested in checking one out with better levelling.



Actually they all did enjoy the game. They just got frustrated/burnt out very quickly, especially after hitting outland/WOTLK. Putting in so much time and effort, and having that feeling of only being half way to max really crippled their enjoyment.

Then to be honest, Wow wasn't for them.

[Razion]

Taken a close look at the first troggs you fight as a dwarf in Dun Morogh recently?
As a new player I would be bothered by old visuals like that than anything else.

I would think 110 is pretty bad too, but probably not the most egregious offender on a list of bad first impressions.

[Frolk]

Making 1-100 zones scaleable like 100-110 would solve a lot of these issues, hoping for this in 8.0

[Laqweeta]

Has the rush that came from Skyrim finally passed?

[Hiricine]

Making 1-100 zones scaleable like 100-110 would solve a lot of these issues, hoping for this in 8.0

PRESTIGE LEVELING--- Lets you reset your xp to level one, along with scaling your gear to your level. Resets all quests below the level cap. Give cosmetic rewards, toys, mounts, etc for leveling.

[Punished Snake]

Making 1-100 zones scaleable like 100-110 would solve a lot of these issues, hoping for this in 8.0

I'd rather not see that. Would be quite a shame to see troggs surviving against my lvl 110 because of that scale.

[Averrix]

With all the bonus XP items in place and the constant drop in required XP at lower levels, there is no problem to get to max level.

[Creotor]

Making 1-100 zones scaleable like 100-110 would solve a lot of these issues, hoping for this in 8.0

Can you elaborate on exactly how? I don't really see it, since most of the rest of WoW leveling/questing wasn't built with that kind of scaling in mind.

[Deleted]

The 110 levels is beyond stupid.
Blizzard should just allow any new character / alt to start at lvl 100. Without paying additional fees. On top of buying the game and paying for a monthly subscription.
Lvl 1 - 100 is complete garbage, for people looking to get into legion. It should remain for people who WANT to play though this, for whatever reason.
But forcing customers who paid for the game and are paying a monthly subscription fee to level through a hundred levels of irrelevant pointless garbage levels just for the sake of milking existing customers out of money to skip this utter waste of time is beyond stupid.
Blizzard has transitioned into a state where they feel like milking customers out of money to skip this thrash is worth more than letting new customers skip it so they can get into the actual game without wasting a ton of hours with useless garbage (try leveling a lvl 1 to lvl 100 without heirlooms before dismissing this).
Fuck this shit. Fuck forcing new / alt characters to level through this 100 garbage levels just to get into the current game.

[Jamie081]

To just look at 110 levels and think "oh wow that's a lot" - without taking into consideration how fucking easy it is to get through them - is really naive

[Spiral Mage]

I've run into the same situation a few times myself.
"I can raid with you guys, and have a group of friends to play with?"
"Yeah,"
"Sounds great."
"You just have to get 110 levels first ..."
"Oh .. that sounds like it'd take a long time. I really only have a few hours a week to play.
How long would it take me?"
".. Probably awhile ..."
"Oh, well, then .. nevermind."

It takes quite awhile to level in reality. For us it seems fast, because we remember when it took FAR LONGER.
But for a new player, who isn't as savvy as we are in leveling and who's going to be both leveling AND learning the game?

It will take them much longer than it takes us.

It's like telling someone they can come to your birthday party and meet all your friends,
but ...
they have to spend a week in solitary confinement first.
That isn't a very attractive prospect.

Even as someone who's played a few MMOs in the past.
Each time I level in a game now, I'm more burned out on it than last time.
I've just been there and done that too many times.
But I also have lots and lots of free time to do it.

Alot of people now, have far, far less time. A few hours a week, tops.
For them this process would take weeks, or months.
Since like I said, it isn't just leveling, it's learning the game.
We know exactly how to do it and even straight up hammering it out takes us quite awhile.
So give someone a few hours every other day to play, who has no idea what the best ways to level are?
And yep, they aren't gonna make it for a long time.

And hell, just think realistically, about how that SOUNDS TO THEM.
"You have to get 110 levels first."
One .. hundred .. and TEN?

That sounds ridiculously long. Especially to someone who has no idea how to do it, at all.

Honestly, people are more about the social experience of gaming now, so this is very unappealing to them to be stuck lone-wolf-ing it for weeks first. (Again, with a few hours a week to play.)

I wonder about a game where there is no leveling, you're thrown right into the end-game, right off.
Leveling really serves no purpose in an MMORPG these days. So why is it even still there?
Your average player learns absolutely nothing from the experience.

I'd like to see what would happen if you just hop right into the content and get goin'.
That's when people learn to play anyway, so, why the hell not do it that way.

[Zantos]

That is why Legion comes with a level 100 boost.

Ok, to you, and everyone else saying "But the free level 100 boost!" Give me a break! You're joking right? Like, legit joking? You can't Honestly sit there and, with a straight face, say that that boost will do a single bit of good. If you do, you're imagining things Big time.

Lets look at the facts of that boost. There are THREE different play styles. Two of which are not effectively taught by a level 100 boost. So, if you tank or heal as a new player on a boost, prepare to rage quit the game when everyone yells at how Useless you are because you can't do your role properly because the boost does NOTHING to teach it. The only reason DPS can ignore is is because most of the time, the other dps do their job well enough that you're sub par dps will be ignored. Because again, the tutorial with the boost wont teach you how to optimize your toon At All.

Moving onto the classes themselves and ignoring the Glaring issue of any tank or healer probably just rage quitting. There are 36 different class specs. That is 36 Different play styles. The odds of them choosing one that they truly enjoy is 1/36 or 2.7%. So they have a 97.3% chance that they will end up having to reroll because what they choose at first, they didn't end up liking. Why would that happen? Because you're not going to figure out jack in a easy tutorial about how a class plays or if you like it. The depth for the class isn't there.

So, anyone thinking the level 100 boost would help a new player at all is either lieing with that opinion, or just has no idea about how different each spec is and how useless the tutorial is.

To answer the Op question:

Absolutely it is. Those of us who have played for years Knows that it should theoretically take the same time to go from 1-110 as it did to go from 1-60 or 1-70. The fact is, for a new player, its going to take a Much longer time. They have 110 levels they have to survive interaction with other players while they are new and have zero idea on what to do. The odds of that happening are low. Some people can be real jerks to new players in dungeons. And forget about BGs. You would swear part of the objective is to be as mean to your team mates as possible for some of those ragers.

Then you have the fact that 110 looks big. Ignoring all time it takes to level it, that is a Big number no matter how you slice it. That alone is going to be intimidating. Add to it that they wont have heirlooms like veteran players do, or mounts, and it slows down a lot.

I think they need to do something to help this for new players. It definitely turns some off.

[Zyky]

Recently i've tried getting both my girlfriend, and 2 other IRL friends, all of which are into games, to start WoW. Only my GF made it to level 110. All 3 however were incredibly put off by the idea of levelling through 110 levels. Now, as a regular player, we know it doesnt take that long. But when someone hears "Yeah, so, to get to the main chunk of the game you gotta level up 110 times before you can start to do the same content as everyone else" the general reply is to complain about how ridiculous that is. Its got me thinking of how many potential new players WoW is losing simply from the idea that levelling so much is gonna take an incredible amount of effort and time. Im not saying WoW is doomed, based on experiences in game, it feels pretty healthy and highly populated, but is it time blizzard decided to do a level squish of sorts? I'm not even personally sure how they would do this, but surely it would make the game more attractive to potential new players?

TL;DC. No, when you purchase Legion you get a lv100 boost, anything after is extra so the fact you're basically being handed a toon at near max level, that's the opposite of "too high" that's very friendly to new players.