[TV] Doctor Who

[the game]

I'm ok with a female doctor as long as they don't turn it into a stereotype and remind us every chance they get that she's female.

[Stormspark]

I'm ok with a female doctor as long as they don't turn it into a stereotype and remind us every chance they get that she's female.

Exactly. Don't make the Doctor a woman for the sake of being a woman. Make the Doctor a woman because the actress they have in mind is perfect for the role. I would rather the woman Doctor be an Ellen Ripley rather than a Captain Janeway.

[Sierra85]

We don't know that yet, we have no idea about her personality or anything.

its the BBC. they will go safe.

imagine that kooky fun preschool teacher you had as a kid. copy paste.

[eschatological]

Hmmm, maybe a shift on perspective: I wonder if they could go a route where the Doctor resents her regeneration. Like, the themes this past season were about him being tired of changing - only to change that radically? And that makes the first female Doctor perhaps more ruthless, more homicidal, or maybe even more restless and depressed. There are tons of ways it can go, narratively, but I do think they'll probably go safe.

[apepi]

Hmmm, maybe a shift on perspective: I wonder if they could go a route where the Doctor resents her regeneration. Like, the themes this past season were about him being tired of changing - only to change that radically? And that makes the first female Doctor perhaps more ruthless, more homicidal, or maybe even more restless and depressed. There are tons of ways it can go, narratively, but I do think they'll probably go safe.

So...the 9th doctor?

its the BBC. they will go safe.

imagine that kooky fun preschool teacher you had as a kid. copy paste.

I think gping safe would be a black male, it shows that they are diverse but not that too far out there to go a women. :P

[Ebalina]

Honestly, they will need to have a male companion on principle. The reason we've always had a female companion wasn't because of any Doctoral sexual preference like the fanfic writers love to theorycraft about, but simply because of viewing demographics and logistics demanding a female lead to balance audience viewership out. :P

It's very VERY rare you can nail a show with 2 main stars being the same gender. Only two I can think of are Zena and Supernatural... and I think we all know why those two are special omissions (campy ladyfighters/Bromance respectively!. ;P)

yeah, I'd be fine with one episode (hell, it kinda demands it!) with the Doctor getting used to being a woman after all these years and some social commentary about it, but I also hope they don't constantly press EVERY episode about it! She's the Doctor. She's about adventures in time and space. Capaldi didn't drone on about "Being old" in every episode...

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I'd WISH she was the female equivalent of Tennant - and that's one of the only problems I have with her. She's the stereotypical "Physically flawless Thirtysomething Blonde bombshell". David Tennant was a pencil thin, funky-haired dork - but made it look all sexy somehow. What we saw today was sadly an old Hollywood setereotype.
I would've LOVED her to have short funky hair, or maybe some slightly larger eyes - or a large toothy comic grin. How she was presented was a bit too "photoshop flawless", not an eccentric indidvidual... which I'm REALLY hoping they offset with her costume/character being quirky/eccentric.

I'm not sure what kind of pictures you saw of her but she deffo resembles Tennat in a female body.
From her imdb http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2092886/m...r/rm1242967808

[Strangewayes]

Please for the love of christ don't make most of her character built on the fact that she's a woman, the only way people are ever going to stop caring about race and gender is if we stop portraying it in such a major way.

You are too late for that

[mvaliz]

she's definitely going to have that doctor-y quirk to her, and shes going to be very smart (not a blonde ditz)

/fingers crossed you're right!

You can say that, but even my one female friend reminded me that Michelle Gomez's Master was written with constant innuendo and flirtations... but I have to remind myself that it's a different producer/director now... >_<

Having said that, again, hope you're right! >_<

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its the BBC. they will go safe.

Ummm... not helping, because the BBC has, so far, not gone "safe" at all. They've actually been kinda daring, which while I applaud - also tends to be handled by ham-fisted hack writers instead of expert wordsmiths. This is exactly why Season 8 gave us an insensitive jackass Doctor for Capaldi's first run and had to have him completely re-personalitied the following 2 seasons - but by then the damage was too late! =/

Look, I'm as positive as the next person - but I will NEVER forget what happened back in the 1980s. One day, we just got done watching "The Curse of Fenric" and a friend of mine just turned to me and said "You know what? I know you're a big Doctor Who fan, but that episode SUCKED!". At that point I realized I was "fanboy defending" the show and finally admitted the show had problems...

...next week, they announced the show was canceled. >_<

My lesson RIGHT then and there was to ALWAYS air my concerns... obviously try to not be negative about it, but ALWAYS air them BEFORE they become problems - because I never want my show to get canceled ever again. I didn't want to admit my show had issues, and that cost me the show in the end. Never again will I let denial stop me! (but I always must remember to not be an angry hater either! Nobody listens to angry haters! :P)

That's why I support all these people saying "PLEASE don't make the next Doctor act XYZ... because if there's a SLIGHT chance somebody thinks the other way, and sees enough of it - it MAY prevent a horrible HORRIBLE mistake in future!

Example: Had Moff listened to fans saying they wanted an older Doctor like Pertwee and Heartnel back as an older Doctor, he should've listened - instead, he gave us all the BAD traits of Heartnell without any of the good traits for his first season! And he did it "just to be different!" >_<

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You are too late for that

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QIegPMT.png[IMG]

Nothing in that series of tweets confirms anything the poster you responded to was affraid of.

All they say is that now women get a Doctor to look up to. He's saying "please don't build the character around the fact she's a woman" - meaning he doesn't want every episode to emphasize that she's a woman in some way/shape/form.

[Strangewayes]

Nothing in that series of tweets confirms anything the poster you responded to was affraid of.

All they say is that now women get a Doctor to look up to. He's saying "please don't build the character around the fact she's a woman" - meaning he doesn't want every episode to emphasize that she's a woman in some way/shape/form.

I'm saying everyone else is.

[mvaliz]

what the fuck is wrong with girls with blue hair and piercings?

[IMG]http://www.lovely-hairstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/19.Punk-Rock-Hairstyle-for-Long-Hair.jpg[IMG]

You see - now THAT would make a cool female Doctor look IMO! Maybe not so many piercings, but she's at least a cute geek! ^_^

So far, if the presentation is given is true, she seems too "Photoshop Perfect" Marlyn Monroe. I want imperfect! I want that cute dorky girl!

Now, again, as I wrote before - I DO want to see her in costume and how she will perform before I pass judgement (That COMPLETELY changed my opinion of Matt Smith!) but I don't mind airing my concerns just to let the producers know "we do care, and please think of us!" :P

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I'm saying everyone else is.

nobody in there was saying that. That's my point

[Sunseeker]

You see - now THAT would make a cool female Doctor look IMO! Maybe not so many piercings, but she's at least a cute geek! ^_^

So far, if the presentation is given is true, she seems too "Photoshop Perfect" Marlyn Monroe. I want imperfect! I want that cute dorky girl!

I don't really think that's fair, Tennant was pretty damn hot. Matt Smith was kinda odd looking to me (his head looks WAY too big!) but I know some people just think he's incredibly sexy.

In any case, people are going to complain either way. She looks normal? "WHY DOESN"T SHE DRESS LIKE A WOMAN!!!" She looks pretty? "WHY IS SHE DRESSED LIKE A SLUT!!??"

[MrLachyG]

after reading the cesspool of comments on Facebook, I've come to the conclusion that people somehow thing that "The Doctor" is somehow an exclusive male role, even though Gallifreyans were genderless until they had finished regenerating and could regenerate into either male or female genders. for me, this is born out of the era in which the show originated - back in the 60's and 70's there were very few female doctors; 99% of the profession was male I would estimate. so of course it made sense for the Doctor to be of male gender, because it reflected society.

however, now in the 2010's there are far more female doctors than there were back in the 60's and 70's. so it makes complete sense for the Doctor to regenerate into a female.

in addition, if she nails the role of the doctor in her first few opening episodes (hopefully they don't bang on about her being a female doctor and how weird that is) then nobody will care what gender she is, and will love her interpretation of the iconic role

i think my favourite facebook comment was how Wonder Woman should be portrayed by a male actor because clearly genders don't matter anymore. which completely ignores the fact that The Doctor is an alien who can take any human form, whereas Wonder Woman is a half human female

[mvaliz]

I don't really think that's fair, Tennant was pretty damn hot. Matt Smith was kinda odd looking to me (his head looks WAY too big!) but I know some people just think he's incredibly sexy.

But with DT I could sight his large eyes and his funky tustled hair and slightly bony cheekbones - he's not facially "physically perfect", which makes him not just unique but adds to his physical charm.

I was thumbing through some pix of Jodie's past works, and there was one shot of her dressed as some rural woman, posing with three others in the same outfit - and one of them was another female. Instantly I found myself looking at the other woman because she didn't have a "perfect face". Looking back at Jodie, her features (while having a dirty face for the role) still remained physically perfect.

You brought up Matt Smith, and THAT is my point! He was slightly flawed! I really can't point to any area on Jodie's face and say "OK... here's her most priminent feature!". They all had them! Eccleston = ears, Tom = teeth n' curls, Pertwee = buffon, Tennant = thin body/tussled hair Matt Smith = 3D CHIN! ^_^

Now, again, this could be fixed post-costume/hair style and overall character performance - which, if that's the case - then BLAM, I applaud! ^_^ Indeed, I didn't like Matt Smith's initial profile pic - but once he was in costume I was happy - and when he performed i was FLOORED!

But right now, she just concerns me as she physically looks "flawless" to me - I can't describe her physically without saying anything more than "Perfect blonde straight hair". Maybe this might be a simple case of bad initial showcasing on the Beeb's part - kinda like how Bethesda tried to sell the idea of the paid mod club thing by showcasing a stupid mudcrab pet dressed in dwarven armor vs something substantial. :P

In any case, people are going to complain either way. She looks normal? "WHY DOESN"T SHE DRESS LIKE A WOMAN!!!" She looks pretty? "WHY IS SHE DRESSED LIKE A SLUT!!??"

They said the same thing would happen about the Wonder Woman movie, but the general consensus is they did a pretty bang-on job with her with only the tinyest minimum of any complaints! (were there complaints about her design post-movie release? Because I sure didn't run into any... Maybe I'll look at the thread here post-release date posts to see what they said.

Honestly, both you and I know that the "She looks normal?" complaints will be FAR FAR FAR less in number than the "She dressed like a slut?" complaints (Sorry, but "pretty" and "Slut" are two different meanings here looks-wise...nobody would call a woman in a proper ball gown as "Dressed like a slut")

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after reading the cesspool of comments on Facebook, I've come to the conclusion that people somehow thing that "The Doctor" is somehow an exclusive male role, even though Gallifreyans were genderless until they had finished regenerating and could regenerate into either male or female genders. for me, this is born out of the era in which the show originated - back in the 60's and 70's there were very few female doctors; 99% of the profession was male I would estimate. so of course it made sense for the Doctor to be of male gender, because it reflected society.

however, now in the 2010's there are far more female doctors than there were back in the 60's and 70's. so it makes complete sense for the Doctor to regenerate into a female.

in addition, if she nails the role of the doctor in her first few opening episodes (hopefully they don't bang on about her being a female doctor and how weird that is) then nobody will care what gender she is, and will love her interpretation of the iconic role

i think my favourite facebook comment was how Wonder Woman should be portrayed by a male actor because clearly genders don't matter anymore. which completely ignores the fact that The Doctor is an alien who can take any human form, whereas Wonder Woman is a half human female

What I boldfaced is the ONLY relevant part of your post I totally agree with. Everything else you wrote is unbelievable levels of emotionally charged ridiculous stereotyping gibberish you pulled out of nowhere - and this is comming from somebody who's pro-Female Doctor! :P

Honestly, what I boldfaced IS what most anti-female doctor posts are worried about... believing she's somehow going to be this stereotypical emotional fragile girl talking nothing but love emotions, or a femnazi banging on about womens rights in every single episode, or just a stereotypical hollywood innuendo-spewing sex-symbol. While I seriously doubt/hope the Beeb is smart enough to not do these things - this is still relevant to voice simply so that the Beeb hears things loud and clear. Sometimes too many "creatives" take their vision and ruin a franchise. It's happened to Doctor Who before, resulting in its eventual cancellation - so lets avoid that happening again, shall we? All opinions/concerns are valid (so long as they're not venemous... which is the real trick! :P)

The garbage above the boldfaced post about actual RL Doctors is crap. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with a character changing from male to female after sooooooo many years of it never crossing that line. I'm a classic fan and I have no idea where the FUCK you got this idea that Time Lords were "Genderless until they finished regenerating and then could change to male/female" - nothing in Classic ever said that, and the idea of crossing skin color/genders was only introduced in the past 2 years, starting with Missy's introduction.

The Wonder Woman argument, IMO, is moot not because of any of the nonsensical gibberish you wrote - but simply because the character's name has "WOMAN" in it, and the defining aspect of her entire character's creation revolves around her gender as opposed to "Warring males" of the time. The Doctor's character does not have this problem as his character is about the sum total of his actions, beliefs and intelligence - and none of that requires a gender assignment to execute properly in a narrative.

[MrLachyG]

But with DT I could sight his large eyes and his funky tustled hair and slightly bony cheekbones - he's not facially "physically perfect", which makes him not just unique but adds to his physical charm.

I was thumbing through some pix of Jodie's past works, and there was one shot of her dressed as some rural woman, posing with three others in the same outfit - and one of them was another female. Instantly I found myself looking at the other woman because she didn't have a "perfect face". Looking back at Jodie, her features (while having a dirty face for the role) still remained physically perfect.

You brought up Matt Smith, and THAT is my point! He was slightly flawed! I really can't point to any area on Jodie's face and say "OK... here's her most priminent feature!". They all had them! Eccleston = ears, Tom = teeth n' curls, Pertwee = buffon, Tennant = thin body/tussled hair Matt Smith = 3D CHIN! ^_^

Now, again, this could be fixed post-costume/hair style and overall character performance - which, if that's the case - then BLAM, I applaud! ^_^ Indeed, I didn't like Matt Smith's initial profile pic - but once he was in costume I was happy - and when he performed i was FLOORED!

But right now, she just concerns me as she physically looks "flawless" to me - I can't describe her physically without saying anything more than "Perfect blonde straight hair". Maybe this might be a simple case of bad initial showcasing on the Beeb's part - kinda like how Bethesda tried to sell the idea of the paid mod club thing by showcasing a stupid mudcrab pet dressed in dwarven armor vs something substantial. :P



They said the same thing would happen about the Wonder Woman movie, but the general consensus is they did a pretty bang-on job with her with only the tinyest minimum of any complaints! (were there complaints about her design post-movie release? Because I sure didn't run into any... Maybe I'll look at the thread here post-release date posts to see what they said.

Honestly, both you and I know that the "She looks normal?" complaints will be FAR FAR FAR less in number than the "She dressed like a slut?" complaints (Sorry, but "pretty" and "Slut" are two different meanings here looks-wise...nobody would call a woman in a proper ball gown as "Dressed like a slut")

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What I boldfaced is the ONLY relevant part of your post I totally agree with. Everything else you wrote is unbelievable levels of emotionally charged ridiculous stereotyping gibberish you pulled out of nowhere - and this is comming from somebody who's pro-Female Doctor! :P

Honestly, what I boldfaced IS what most anti-female doctor posts are worried about... believing she's somehow going to be this stereotypical emotional fragile girl talking nothing but love emotions, or a femnazi banging on about womens rights in every single episode, or just a stereotypical hollywood innuendo-spewing sex-symbol. While I seriously doubt/hope the Beeb is smart enough to not do these things - this is still relevant to voice simply so that the Beeb hears things loud and clear. Sometimes too many "creatives" take their vision and ruin a franchise. It's happened to Doctor Who before, resulting in its eventual cancellation - so lets avoid that happening again, shall we? All opinions/concerns are valid (so long as they're not venemous... which is the real trick! :P)

The garbage above the boldfaced post about actual RL Doctors is crap. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with a character changing from male to female after sooooooo many years of it never crossing that line. I'm a classic fan and I have no idea where the FUCK you got this idea that Time Lords were "Genderless until they finished regenerating and then could change to male/female" - nothing in Classic ever said that, and the idea of crossing skin color/genders was only introduced in the past 2 years, starting with Missy's introduction.

The Wonder Woman argument, IMO, is moot not because of any of the nonsensical gibberish you wrote - but simply because the character's name has "WOMAN" in it, and the defining aspect of her entire character's creation revolves around her gender as opposed to "Warring males" of the time. The Doctor's character does not have this problem as his character is about the sum total of his actions, beliefs and intelligence - and none of that requires a gender assignment to execute properly in a narrative.

in my defence, i had just woken up - so was still a bit out of it. the bit about the RL doctos was to highlight how things change, just because something might be traditionally male doesn't mean it always has to be. as for what I said about being genderless, i used the wrong word there - should have been that they can be either gender. The Corsair is one that springs to mind as a Time Lord who, according to the Eleventh Doctor, had both male and female regenerations. The Wonder Woman argument was not mine, it was somebody else's that I found particularly stupid.

[mvaliz]

OK, it's late - but I can't sleep.

So, I decided to update this graphic.

Njoy!

[Huehuecoyotl]

>being realistic
>show is literally about time travel

i think the virtue signalling from the bbc has got out of hand. okay, she's a lesbian. lets move on. that's how real life works. i don't go into work every day and tell my colleagues i'm gay, and i certainly don't start every conversation with "hi, my name is <> im gay" ... it's fucking stupid.

i am okay with this though, so long as every episode isnt "FIGHT THE PATRIARCHY", "WOMEN > MEN" and "HI IM A WOMAN".

Thank you for showing that you don't understand how Science Fiction works, at all.

Literally the main point of SF is providing a lense to the human condition by taking realistic people and placing them in fantastic situations. To give a better understanding of our society, and the people that live in it, by showing them in scenarios that don't or can't exist in our little slice of real life. The difference between good SF and bad is that the bad writers think like you, and believe they can get their characters to do any thing "because it's SF".

Just because someone can travel in time, doesn't mean they stop behaving like a real human being. Unless, like the Doctor, they weren't human to begin with.

So, as long as the writing is good, we will be just fine with a female Doctor. If we get more "Robots of Sherwood" then we are in trouble, but that's true regardless of what gender the Doctor is.

[Deleted]

To be fair though, no - it really doesn't always click.

Capaldi is a prime example, along with Colin Baker and the 6th Doctor. With Capaldi I know of 3 real-life friends who have sworn off Doctor Who after trying to watch Capaldi's first season and they just couldn't do it. I've told them to just skip that one and go right to S2 as he's much better, and they didn't.

Colin was the same - the Directors had him play a very rude, egomeniacle and even somewhat violent Doctor in the beginning all while wearing the worlds most rediculous outfit ever - and that transition killed viewers... that ultimately led to its cancelation after 3 years, where Sylvester McCoy's performance couldn't even save the show!

Old ladies die all the time, it's practically their job.
Planet of the pudding-brains.
Never trust a hug. It's just a way to hide your face.
I understand why that doesn't click with some people. Capaldi is more alien, less human, more blunt than the previous bubbly implementations.
Though I think it's largely a device to justify his companions. Clara had to "break" him. And the last season started with a substantially cruel attitude too (see kid eaten by frozen river monster); that was also a way to develop his companion, Bill.

But I wasn't going for wide acceptance. Just highlighting that the process of regeneration, and its public reception, is a time of profound discord. Perhaps Matt Smith fits better in the narrative I'm setting up: Tennant was a major success, and people were concerned Smith would not live up to that. And it turned out he was kind of alright.
It's less about acceptance, but more about how we bitch about these things every single time, and reading too much into it is not particularly useful.

All in all, I think that yours is a fair assessment. But as a point of anecdote: Capaldi is my Doctor, and know several others who would not trade his bluntness for any kind of wibbly wobbly timey wimey... stuff.

[mvaliz]

Those people should probably seek legal action against their employers then, that's illegal. Or you're just bullshitting which is more likely.

Even if he wasn't bullshiting (which I believe he is), I would dare him to post what those people said here, along with what business they were working for. Chances are you would read what they wrote, and associate the business and say "oh yeah, I'd be firing fools if my employees said that shit too".

[Altrec]

I hope you enjoyed your rant that had nothing at all to do with my post?

Yeah, I'm not sure what happened there. I originally quoted the person above you so that was not directed at you. I either miss clicked or something went bonkers after the fact, but I am pretty sure the person I wanted to quote was what originally showed.*shrug*

[grandpab]

I've only seen Jodie in Broadchurch, so I'm not sure how good of a Doctor she'll be. When I saw her in Broadchurch I certainly didn't think 'she would make an excellent Doctor!', but that David Tennant guy she worked with would make for an awesome Doctor.