TW: Black Temple raid

[Sarevokcz]

I think the avg DPS there is 10k or so? If they could lower it to 4-5k, it already would be something. (I think in TBC dps there was like 2k).

unless you it make queuable, split into three wings or count as whole 5 dungs for the weekly, that would be terrible.

for one, this was the first week, alot of people wanted to check it out, even people, that dont really need the gear from it, so on average, there were better people that what can you expect the next time around, kinda like how LFR and ToS pugging are usually clean on wed/thu then often a mess later in a week

for two, the place, even with the dps we have, takes good 60-90 minutes in a good/guild group, its not as boring as the MC event was (yet!), but considering how obsolete the gear will be for raiders the next TW, people just wouldnt bother with something, that takes up to 3 hours and doesnt offer much, if anything

and for three, which is more of a nitpick tho, is the fact, that TW already doesnt scale stats well anyway and for some specs that require certain stats for fluid or fun gameplay, its just not fun not going into TW, having your crit or haste lowered by half and, not having resources like youre used to on raids or having cast times noticeably longer etc. Or add to that certain mechanics, like dispells, are different now, we dont have the possibility of spamming them now, but trash still spams their CCs, its not fun, when you pop CDs and you get whole 5s out of them because you are constantly being rooted, stunned, cursed, sleep or are otherwise incapacitated

[darklogrus]

In the raid I was in the achievement popped for a rogue, so it's 100% unlockable by non-DHs.

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Tons of people try to yolo mong though the trash and get baffled why it doesn't go. Also contrary to expectations of most m+ heroes trash in that place is mostly non-stunnable.

And then you come to the bosses that have 2 abilities on average.

Trash wasn't an issue and the pulls were always manageable. As for the bosses only 1 gave us a bit of a difficult time but that's only because Reliq of Souls wanted to aggro people 3/4 up the ramp. Otherwise it was usually no wipes or just 1 but thats to be expected from a grp who never ran it in its prime. To be totally honest though. I am not sure if it was just the way the dungeon look or felt, but personally about 1/3 of the way thru I wasn't much lookin forward to it anymore.

[Deleted]

Lockout issues are crippling to this format.

Failed concept.

[Mlz]

Cata = Dragonsoul

Make it Firelands and I agree, although I would probably do each once only. Black Temple was alright but as I said, I wouldn't want to do it again - perhaps it would be more fun with a guild group but in a random pug it felt like a slog (it was better than MC LFR though because no afking monkeys at least).

[Sarook]

My guild done it last night and tbh I found it pretty nice and a good change of pace. Wont do it everytime its up but liked it for what it was and didn't really expect too much going in so was pretty enjoyable imo some even got some nice tforged loot.

Saying that, its obvious that I wasn't concentrating too much during the night as this quick video testifies to.

https://youtu.be/8DFc7FuG8k8

[Retlul]

I highly doubt that since they explicitly called out the xmog.

thats exactly what you get, if you have the warglaives on a char, aka having the FoS you get warglaives Tmog for your DH no matter what char you kill TW illidan on.

[lolbubble]

TW BT has got to be one of the biggest flops in wow history.

[Tharkkun]

Trash wasn't an issue and the pulls were always manageable. As for the bosses only 1 gave us a bit of a difficult time but that's only because Reliq of Souls wanted to aggro people 3/4 up the ramp. Otherwise it was usually no wipes or just 1 but thats to be expected from a grp who never ran it in its prime. To be totally honest though. I am not sure if it was just the way the dungeon look or felt, but personally about 1/3 of the way thru I wasn't much lookin forward to it anymore.

That's how reliquary always worked even back in Burning Crusade. You would gather at the edge right at the top, heal up fast and go because it's a gauntlet.

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TW BT has got to be one of the biggest flops in wow history.

If you expected them to bring back the same nostalgia you felt in BC then you set your expectations too high. I found it enjoyable and pretty much exactly as I expected it to be.

[Deleted]

Quite enjoyed the return to BT.

And yes i played since vanilla, and yes i raided BT in it's "prime" days.
I'm just not one of those sour "lul everything was sooo much better back then" people.
This was ment to be something light, it's timewalking. If it was tuned like it's original state people wouldn't even bother clearing the trash (and GL progressing through the entire thing in one week for people who have never done the raid before).

There were ofcourse a few loudmouths in raid who had to comment on every boss how easy it was and how much better it was in TBC, to the point where it got obnoxiously annoying (yeah we get it, you played a game for some years, now shut up). Gladly the RL felt the same and booted them out, replaced them with some others and from then on we had a very enjoyable raid, and the same raidteam cleared it again after on our alts.

[DemoBytom]

I do agree with said posts above they need to make all timewalking raids lfr format due to lockout issues.. As for possible suggestions for future timewalking raids
I would say
Vanilla = Blackwing Lair
BC= Black Temple(Already set)
Wrath = ICC
Cata = Dragonsoul
Mists of Pandaria = SoO
WoD = HFC
These my suggestions i think blizzard should use for future timewalking raids.

Wrath - Ulduar- it's the most loved, along with Karazhan, raid ever. usually it's either of those two that win any "what's your favorite raid".
Cata - Firelands. People still praise that raid, as the best in Cataclysm. Dragonsoul though is so hated... We hated it back then, we hate it now, no.. it's a reason why Cata is such a hated expansion.
Mists - Siege? Seriously? 14 months of Siege wasn't enough for you? :O What's more the best raid in Mists was Throne of Thunder. Not only it was very interesting but aslo quite short-lived, defo compared to Siege..
WoD - do we even have WoD TW? Do we want WoD TW?.. I'd rather forget that expansion...

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Dragonsoul, in contrast, is almost universally reviled as the worst raid ever created, and there is no way TW pugs can handle mechanics like those present on the Deathwing's Spine encounter. Firelands would be a far better fit for TW for these reasons.

Not that I disagree that DS should be, forgotten by the community, and if we get Cata TW it really should be Firelands.. But you know that DS was first raid in LFR format? And people were doing Spine there?.. We were even pugging that place, back in the day.. I don't see why people couldn't do it, if it was on, more or less, today's normal mode dificulty (like BT was)..

[VladimirM]

I am kinda disapointed in the way DH is carrying Transmogged Artifact into Glaives of Azzinoth on it's back. They are crossed over each other in a wrong way imo

[Krekal]

I do agree with said posts above they need to make all timewalking raids lfr format due to lockout issues.. As for possible suggestions for future timewalking raids
I would say
Vanilla = Blackwing Lair
BC= Black Temple(Already set)
Wrath = ICC
Cata = Dragonsoul
Mists of Pandaria = SoO
WoD = HFC
These my suggestions i think blizzard should use for future timewalking raids.

pretbc: zg
wotlk: uld
cata: bwd
mop: soo
wod: highmaul
imo

[Segus1992]

Also, is there a boss bigger than Supremus? Sweet mother of titans that guy was huge!

Probably only Deathwing.

Also, goddamn this raid was a disappointment, I hope people don't start saying his is how easy BT was back in the day. Wipes only due to overpulls (2 trash packs + boss without prep for instance) and everyone being essentially blind to mechanics.

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pretbc: zg
wotlk: uld
cata: bwd
mop: soo
wod: highmaul
imo

lol ZG, the raid that was only more interesting and era-defining than AQ20 (mind you, it was my first raid that I did at level 54) as the Vanilla TW raid? Not a chance. It'd be Onyxia or (as we've already gotten) MC.

For most of the expansions, the expansion-defining raids came at the end, when the main protagonist became the boss. It's almost guaranteed that these will be the raids we get first.

[Kynario]

Did the raid in a guild run (joined on Supremus):
- Supremus : he hits rather hard, but nothing troublesome. We wiped once because we pulled extra trash.
- Akama : Easy.
- Teron Gorefiend : Old soldiers from BC kept babysitting those who were about to do the ghost duty, telling them exactly what to do at all times. Easy kill.
- Reliquary : We pulled boss with 2-3 trashs, not a lot of people alive in the end but we killed him. P1-2 were the hardest (p1 because trash and tanks didn't have enough time to get aggro on it, p2 because some casts weren't kicked).
- Gurtogg, 2 groups of 3 for Bloodboil, HoP on focused targets. Easy.
- Mother : We had half the raid dead because they weren't moving fast enough for the link (taking 3*link dmg instead 1), rather easy if the link is properly handled. One tank got one-shot at the start because he wanted to backped with the boss while the other tanks (we did the whole raid with 3 tanks, just in case something went wrong) were chilling on the designated sign.
- Council : Several deaths because of people standing in Flamestrike, one heal from the priest went through. Easy enough (Pal boss far away from the others, same for Priest boss, Rogue boss stacked with the Mage boss).
- Illidan : we wiped once in P2 because the add was too far away from his glaive (and destroyed everyone...oh and the war charged it, ending in a spot where 6 fire were stacked :P). We kept making calls for Parasites and Demon Form and we killed with 2 deaths in the end.

Overall, it was a nice experience. Pretty weird that we can't tank swap with a simple taunt. I'm looking forward to TW ICC.
Oh...and Illidan, we were Prepared. :3

Well summarised, had a similar experience with my guild run. The Reliquary of Souls feels incredibly undertuned though... we accidentally pulled, with 1 healer and 1 DPS afk (we were a 10 man group) and still killed the boss. It was hilarious, but it felt way too easy. We really struggled with Illidan P2, too. The green fires spawned by the elementals hit me (the off-tank) and our main-tank like a truck and we had to use BL to get through that phase alive without wiping...

Overall, it was great! Very fun, albeit a bit too easy.

Still, looking forward to more TW raids. Hopefully they do Ulduar or ICC.

[Deleted]

They need to make this LFR too....

Agreed, this version of BT is so easy that it's doable with a 14/4/2 LFR group without any problems.

There is no reason no to have it in the LFR, except that Blizzard doesn't want to put in the time and resources.

[Krekal]

lol ZG, the raid that was only more interesting and era-defining than AQ20 (mind you, it was my first raid that I did at level 54) as the Vanilla TW raid? Not a chance. It'd be Onyxia or (as we've already gotten) MC.

For most of the expansions, the expansion-defining raids came at the end, when the main protagonist became the boss. It's almost guaranteed that these will be the raids we get first.

ye but i like zg

[Deleted]

I do agree with said posts above they need to make all timewalking raids lfr format due to lockout issues.. As for possible suggestions for future timewalking raids

It was just a bug, normal/heroic raids have working boss loot IDs since WotLK.

[Segus1992]

ye but i like zg

It'll happen last, if at all. Remember that the raid is entirely gone.

[Deleted]

pretbc: zg
wotlk: uld
cata: bwd
mop: soo
wod: highmaul
imo

I'd kill for old ZG raid. With old mounts. Those were RNG to begin with, so I'm still salty about removing them from game. Timewalking is perfect to make it happen.

[Jijek]

I queued for it as a tank and my group just kept pulling more and more trash so I bailed. Should be LFR.