Frost 7.3

[meumaxu]

I dont agree with those changes, they should only buff our overall dmg and nerf the RP consuming for Bos so we can keep it up while moving... They will kill BOS playstile on the favor of casuals that find it hard to play

[Drakonskyr]

I wouldn't bother looking at numbers right now, it's very unlikely they'll make it to live anyway, and even if they did, we all remember what happened the last time we were buffed to the high heavens, yes? And if you don't, HFC week one would like to have a word with you.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I wouldn't bother looking at numbers right now, it's very unlikely they'll make it to live anyway, and even if they did, we all remember what happened the last time we were buffed to the high heavens, yes? And if you don't, HFC week one would like to have a word with you.

The last time we were buffed to high heavens was in emerald nighmare, where we overtook unholy by storm and suddenly went from worst spec at legion launch to top 10% probably.

But I agree, number crunching is pointless as of yet.They haven't even gotten the flow right I'd argue, that they flat out buffed frost with 27% just shows that they are still using the crude dials. Instead of trying to get stuff right mechanically first and buffen the lackluster places they essentially just forced a new model onto the thing and will probably end up just tweaking it to where they like the numbers.

[Deleted]

Having a long breath is the only fun thing about playing frost. The spec will be a complete snorefest without it.

[varren]

God I hope MSG overtakes BoS... BoS made me leave frost entirely - I just hate it

This so much. I can't stand BoS. I love everything about Frost except for that, and it's such a major part of the spec.

[Akusa202]

All the people that hate BoS and complain about it being boring, have any of you actually played MG frost?

[Raiz]

Having a long breath is the only fun thing about playing frost. The spec will be a complete snorefest without it.

Speak for yourself lol. Not everyone like this style. I dislike it when Frost dk ignores mechanics because they have to stick to their target. I wouldn't mind if BoS lasted for 20 sec. More than 20 sec is just overkill and plain stupid.
Blizzard made it pretty clear with putting both talents in the same row. They don't like Frost dk with their neverending breath.

All the people that hate BoS and complain about it being boring, have any of you actually played MG frost?

Either way, it's nice that we now have multiple choices. Having to play BoS only when you're a frost DK isn't my definition of fun.

[Bisque]

Well it is refreshing to see, on the official forums there are a 100+ something responses to the frost 7.3 thread. Now granted some of them are "bring back 2H frost" or " Rets needs buffs but for whatever reason I will complain about underperforming ret pallies in a FROST DK thread..." but for the most part people are speaking out.

That being said I would love for blizz to do something about rime procs during obliteration and naturally occurring KM procs during obliteration.

[RuneDK]

There are sooo many changes. All the changes mean that obliteration will be much stronger because of OB, FS and thronebreaker hitting much (27%) harder. Belt will increase OB by another 10%.

It wont make obliteration better at all...it will still remain a dead talent without a complete redesign. HRW will essentially do the same thing but better(mini-lust for 12 seconds vs 4 KM Obliterates...what do you think is better?). By doing the same thing, I mean it will leave you flooded with resources while it's active. I'll take the mini lust over obliteration any day. Obliteration needs serious work to not be a dead talent in this tier of talents.

[Deleted]

It wont make obliteration better at all...it will still remain a dead talent without a complete redesign. HRW will essentially do the same thing but better(mini-lust for 12 seconds vs 4 KM Obliterates...what do you think is better?). By doing the same thing, I mean it will leave you flooded with resources while it's active. I'll take the mini lust over obliteration any day. Obliteration needs serious work to not be a dead talent in this tier of talents.

Obliteration will be much stronger now simply because of said things. Additionally its duration was increased by 25%.

It isnt a dead talent at all. Just wait for the sims, they will show you this. Gameplay wise you use Obliteration at low runes anyways.

Its problem was anyways that BOS was that strong.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Its problem was anyways that BOS was that strong.

No, it was unbelivably weak, that was always it's problem. Before they buffed BoS at the end of EN you might as well have taken neither talent, as the influence was neglectable at best.

[SenpaiDean]

Machine gun with Hungering rune Weapon. hmmm..... should just remove hungering rune weapon and make it a passive that makes pillar give 10-20% haste

[Deleted]

No, it was unbelivably weak, that was always it's problem. Before they buffed BoS at the end of EN you might as well have taken neither talent, as the influence was neglectable at best.

According to sims BOS is about 12%dps worth. In another setup, Obliterate is 5.7% worth. Considering the buffs and the belt redesign, i think it could go up into the 7-9% dps region. That is a good value. Blizzard once said that talents should be worth about 6-8% so Obliterate seems to be fine.

Without HRW, BOS is even weaker. Thats why BOS got a 10+27% dps buff too.... cause it needs to hit harder now. Noone said Obliterste will beat BOS. Both could end up pretty close.

The 27% buff probsbly is over the top anyways.


A new setup (MG, Icecap, Obliterate, Leg Belt) + T20 could be strong.

[PL-Cibo]

BoS is a polarizing talent but simply breaking a playstyle that many players actually enjoy is not the way to handle this. The post is even misleading because it says synergies will be preserved with SoN and BoS however if Hungering Rune Weapon and BoS are on the same tier...synergies are impossible.

The poor spec diversity was the result of Obliteration and Machine Gun talents being undertuned. Plain and simple. This is a gross over-correction, and even if it succedes in giving frost some spec variety the removal of a fun playstyle makes this bittersweet.

Well don't think BoS will go away. More like the active windows will be down to ~15-20 seconds. Almost reminds me of retri playstyle... And i understand removing HRW from specc. This "elegantly" solves the problem of convergence of fates... Ow well let's wait on the PTR

[Deleted]

According to sims BOS is about 12%dps worth. In another setup, Obliterate is 5.7% worth. Considering the buffs and the belt redesign, i think it could go up into the 7-9% dps region. That is a good value. Blizzard once said that talents should be worth about 6-8% so Obliterate seems to be fine.

Without HRW, BOS is even weaker. Thats why BOS got a 10+27% dps buff too.... cause it needs to hit harder now. Noone said Obliterste will beat BOS. Both could end up pretty close.

The 27% buff probsbly is over the top anyways.

I also think they are trying to make different builds viable. Especially depending on which Legendaries we will use.
An example could be that Legendary belt t might push Oblit ahead of BoS

[Deleted]

Speak for yourself lol. Not everyone like this style. I dislike it when Frost dk ignores mechanics because they have to stick to their target. I wouldn't mind if BoS lasted for 20 sec. More than 20 sec is just overkill and plain stupid.
Blizzard made it pretty clear with putting both talents in the same row. They don't like Frost dk with their neverending breath.

I find it fun optimising the correct time to use breath. You can get the full breath off on every boss in ToS so what's the big deal.

Also making different builds viable is completely pointless as there will always be a highest dps build. They should focus on making niche talents that are better in certain situations instead.

[Deleted]

Also making different builds viable is completely pointless as there will always be a highest dps build. They should focus on making niche talents that are better in certain situations instead.

As these changes are aimed at 7.3. Expect the t21 tier bonus to also work with these. Different viable builds according to which legendaries you are using. Different bosses may require a different talent/legendary setup. So no there is not always a highest dps build 100%. It has been like this, but isn't that what they want to change?

[Deleted]

As these changes are aimed at 7.3. Expect the t21 tier bonus to also work with these. Different viable builds according to which legendaries you are using. Different bosses may require a different talent/legendary setup. So no there is not always a highest dps build 100%. It has been like this, but isn't that what they want to change?

Changing Talents based on the Encounter goes along with changing Talents from a ST Encounter to an Cleave or AOE Encounter.

I dont think there will be multiple 'viable' builds for a ST fight, one Setup will always be best in theory, so most ppl will Play it.

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Having FScy, Frozen Pulse and Gathering Storm in one Tier is boring imho, and i hope they Change it. If you have 3 AOE Talents there is always a 'best' one and you wont Change.

Coming from Blood in WoD i always liked BoS. Having super Long Breaths in NH was amazing, but i get that some ppl dont like it. But i still dont think that Oblit or HRW will beat BoS. With the 27% and 10% buff to breath the fronloaded burst will be insane.

Looking forward to test the changes with the next PTR Build.

[Laurathansal]

BoS needs to be a 20-30 sec cooldown you use and maintain for as long as possible, but no longer than the mentioned 20-30 sec. Bosses these days have way too many mechanics for me to be able to stick to the boss for 60+ seconds.

What it seems to be is that they want to keep frost values more or less the same, while giving more damage outside of BoS for the BoS build, and bringing other specs up to par like UH has 2 or 3 good specs too.

SO, all in all, good changes, just need proper tuning.

[darkzeros]

obliteration needs to changes to stacks of KM and how many stack should it have when you click the ability 5? 10?