Killing server community was a bad idea.

[Amerrol]

I don't really remember that much cooperation during leveling back in the day, apart from the odd group quest. It was mostly just a solo experience, but it was fun seeing the same handful of people over multiple days as they leveled in the same areas as you, since leveling actually took more than a day. I actually met some of those same people in future raiding guilds and we remembered each other. Nothing like that would happen these days.

End game was totally different. My first experience to end game was early WotLK, before any sort of LFD or CRZ. I met a lot of people on my server gearing up through 5 mans and pugging raids. Even after I joined a raiding guild I kept a lot of people on my friends list that I interacted with on a regular basis, and I even recruited some of them to guilds. Once LFD hit that tapered off and I only started interacting with my guild. There was still some raid pugging going on, but that was mostly on alts since my main was in one of the better guilds on the server.

[Thorbalt]

A MMO is about a game that you grow into and learn new people to explore new content with.



Growlite

Two very important things.

Number 1: Massive Multiplayer Online. That is what MMO stands for. That is the ONE AND ONLY THING it stands for

Number 2: you never "grow into" a game. you play a game, or you dont. you enjoy it, or you dont, and move along. if you want something you "grow into", most people would put prison food right at the top of that list. Growing into something only happens when you are FORCED to do it day in and day out, and i have yet to see anyone who has a gun to their head 24/7 that will fire if they dont play wow

[Canield]

Exactly, it's a soul-less experience now, you join a group with the group finder, get it done and disband, literally no one talks to each other. It wasn't like that once upon a time, you used to talk to the people because the game was far more social back then than it is now.

Cross realm is no substitute for an active realm community.

And this is why I no longer play WoW, and pretty much any other MMO(they all followed the same destructive pattern). Much of the experience of an MMO should be, and once was, learning to communicate with and build relations with other players. While that does happen at high levels of the game(High level raiding and rated PVP), it does not necessarily apply to the lower end content of the game(IE, pretty much the bulk of this last expansion). Hell, the artifact system is solely about YOU and no one else. I have been saying this since late WotLK, the game is headed in a very unhealthy direction for MMOs.

I just want to play an MMO where there is multiplayer involved beginning to end, not just the end. I want to play an MMO where I meet random guy from Texas and play a video game with him for 8 years. I just don't get that anymore, and the game developers seem to lose sight of what is and isn't true social interaction.

[Zephre]

We're still romanticising "server communities" are we? Cute.

Nice argument weeb, tell me, when did you start playing WoW? I'm guessing wrath?

[Allenseiei]

A MMO is about a game that you grow into and learn new people to explore new content with.

With the introduction of phasing the only thing what it did was giving you a sense that you were playing with other people.
However this created a player like today that have no sense of helping other players if it does not benefit themselves.

The only thing blizzard had to do was merging servers so you get a new influx of players but that are there on the world. If you know them by name you know that they are on that server. This is the one thing that I mis so big from wow nowadays if I lvl a new character I meet people from other servers, this doesn't give a sense of scale only temporary.

The problem in my opinion with blizzard is that they did not see the succes of the MMO. When creating a new expansion they drive away from the journey.

The setup should always have been azeroth 1-100 and the new expansions follows. New expansion azeroth 1-110 and so forth. So the new players experience the journey on azeroth and then when they hit the lvl they can go to the new expansion. Lvling is such a drag right now. I haven't played wow for a year now but it really have a special place in my heart and eager awaiting the new expansion to dive in for a few months.

Regards,

Growlite

It's all fine and dandy but where have you even played in vanilla? Where did you find that players always had a sense of helping other players?

Did people open UBRS door without getting paid? No.
Did people with dots and instant not try to steal tagging of mobs? No.
Did people try to scam new players? Yes, it was quite easy.
Did people get camped in the outdoor world? Yes a lot more often since there wasn't much to do.

Only your inner cirlce of players knew each other. Do you think a server with 8000-15000 players everyone knows each other? You knew people in vanilla who played similar content as you did. That has not changed unless you are a dead population server where everyone is playing singleplayer LFR.

By your post, you are talking about low population servers where cross realm is a constant thing. Then maybe you should be asking for blizzard to merge servers and not change the game in a way that will probably won't bring that sense of community back. Adding vanilla systems does not fix community issues.
In high population servers you still meet new people, you still help each other with content (many players in the mythic guilds in our server do mythic +, world quests, lfr and other things in groups between guilds), you add people to friend lists, etc. I still have a rich social experience in my daily dose of WoW.

[Miatog]

Server community was never a thing to begin with. "Looking to run this dungeon." yay a group! I've already forgotten your names and we haven't even stepped inside yet. I could stand around trying to get a group for some elite area, or just wait till I out leveled it and come back later. Listen to trade and/or general chat yell and bicker at each other. The only difference I see between now and back then, is that it's easier for me to pug dungeons if I can't get guildies to join me.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Legion did do a good job in making play with other people. Problem is they might as well be NPCs. I mean I go to a WQ and sure people show up, we group, we help each other, I cross realm, people join, we kill stuff, but no words are really spoken and odds are most of them I never see or hear from again.

In the vanilla setting I would be slowly trying to do an elite quest and I would see some other guy as well. We chat, group up, and come up with a plan because this shit can kill us still and the only stategy in the game isn't just gogogogo aoe aoe aoe, mount up, leave group, and fly away.

So while Legion did make players play together it is really only in the interest of speed and efficiency and not need or desire. Because of that you get next to no interaction. If when I phased into WQ and 2 to 4 NPCs that did like some terrible 200k DPS appeared and just killed shit it would be just about the exact same experience. In some cases better because 1 to 2 of them wouldn't just be hovering above the ground on flying mounts.

[SupBrah]

I do really miss the server communities. Even on low pop servers it was great because everyone knew everyone. You'd be dueling outside when suddenly a newly transferred pvper shows up and starts making is presence known. Next thing you know, the entire server starts buzzing about this new guy and trying to get him to play with them this season.

It's the little things like that that I miss.

[Aeula]

One of the few things I didn't like about MoP: Cross Realm Zones.

And I agree. It doesn't feel like there's much community anymore. Everyone else might as well be a random NPC that occasionally yells at you for being a 'noob'.

[Thorbalt]

I do really miss the server communities. Even on low pop servers it was great because everyone knew everyone. You'd be dueling outside when suddenly a newly transferred pvper shows up and starts making is presence known. Next thing you know, the entire server starts buzzing about this new guy and trying to get him to play with them this season.

It's the little things like that that I miss.

yeah, because everyone knows the cool kids were always the scrubs who stood outside if/sw and did nothing but duel, and either gloat when they won or screamed cheater when they lost


/rollseyes

hate to break it to you duely, but no one ever cared for the scrubs who stood outside if all day and dueled. they cared about the people who would actually play the game and help out often. those are the kinds of people that made it to friend lists. which is why you are never on them im guessing

[Deleted]

Cross realm is the Illusion you are beeing sold. That isn't activity. How would you even know if those aren't bots the game is using to pretend it's populated?
Activity and community are interconnected. Activity is for you to know your server people, guilds, etc. It's a sense of community and Blizz was so afraid of the bad press from merging servers that the ones struggling are the raiding guilds that still have to look for raiders on their realm.

[kraid]

I started in Wotlk and back then everyone on the server knew each other, who was good and who was bad, since there was no alternative dungeon finder with strangers from other servers one had to deal with the server comunity, I miss the feeling of gaining a reputation with your server, it was one of those things that make the world real for me, now I don't even know nor even care, probably cause I can do dungeons perfectly fine with people I'll probably just meet once or twice, this is a just personal thing but I heard of people who share the same feeling.
any of you guys feel the same?

[SupBrah]

yeah, because everyone knows the cool kids were always the scrubs who stood outside if/sw and did nothing but duel, and either gloat when they won or screamed cheater when they lost


/rollseyes

hate to break it to you duely, but no one ever cared for the scrubs who stood outside if all day and dueled. they cared about the people who would actually play the game and help out often. those are the kinds of people that made it to friend lists. which is why you are never on them im guessing

That's... not what I was saying, at all. I was giving an example of the kinda things that made the server community such an integral part of WoW. I actually made a lot of friends just by simply sitting outside and dueling when I was bored, thank you.

Yeesh, who touched you inappropriately this morning?

[Valrysha]

Bullshit. In Legion, world is populated but people just ignore each other because you can solo non-instanced content.

This. The world is populated, very much so. But you can solo 99% of Legion outdoor content. The only thing I can think of is the Broken Shore rares, but even they can be tackled solo with a bit of brainpower behind you.

I played on a 'blizzlike' private server a few months ago for Vanilla and I can tell you first hand, if you want to kill an elite, for an elite quest, such as Hogger or Mor'Ladim in Elwynn/Duskwood. You were getting a group or you were not getting anywhere, same goes for doing Dun Modr elite quests in Wetlands. That co-operation formed friendships and I joined a guild on that server due to it.

[corebit]

The truth is somewhere in between the people who claim the vanilla community was just as bad as today's, and the people who claim it was sunshine and rainbows.

There was more camaraderie during vanilla because most people were new to this whole MMORPG thing and also complete noobs at the game. But it wasn't this amazing social utopia that some posters are making them to be. If you were lucky to be in a popular server and in a big guild, your view was skewed by that and therefore you assumed that everyone else had the experience. There was plenty of douchebaggery and just as many people who refused to help or talk to each other.

[Hitei]

This. The world is populated, very much so. But you can solo 99% of Legion outdoor content. The only thing I can think of is the Broken Shore rares, but even they can be tackled solo with a bit of brainpower behind you.

I played on a 'blizzlike' private server a few months ago for Vanilla and I can tell you first hand, if you want to kill an elite, for an elite quest, such as Hogger or Mor'Ladim in Elwynn/Duskwood. You were getting a group or you were not getting anywhere, same goes for doing Dun Modr elite quests in Wetlands. That co-operation formed friendships and I joined a guild on that server due to it.

Which is why the vast majority of people just skipped those quests and went on to the next solo ones, or had a higher level guild mate come and do it.

[corebit]

I played on a 'blizzlike' private server a few months ago for Vanilla and I can tell you first hand, if you want to kill an elite, for an elite quest, such as Hogger or Mor'Ladim in Elwynn/Duskwood. You were getting a group or you were not getting anywhere, same goes for doing Dun Modr elite quests in Wetlands. That co-operation formed friendships and I joined a guild on that server due to it.

My own anecdotal experience was different, if I had the patience I would stand around and announce for help. After getting a group and completing the quest, we would disband just as quickly and continue on our way. But more than likely I would just skip the quest and move on to complete the solo quests until the next map.

[Pull My Finger]

This again? Yawn.

The problem with a lot of these people who keep making these threads is that they are inhibited loners who confuse online gaming with some kind of substitute for social activity. They confuse WoW with some weird kind of AAA meeting, or a dating site. And then they come on forums soapboxing to other people about "what MMOs are supposed to be".

[Allenseiei]

Legion did do a good job in making play with other people. Problem is they might as well be NPCs. I mean I go to a WQ and sure people show up, we group, we help each other, I cross realm, people join, we kill stuff, but no words are really spoken and odds are most of them I never see or hear from again.

In the vanilla setting I would be slowly trying to do an elite quest and I would see some other guy as well. We chat, group up, and come up with a plan because this shit can kill us still and the only stategy in the game isn't just gogogogo aoe aoe aoe, mount up, leave group, and fly away.

So while Legion did make players play together it is really only in the interest of speed and efficiency and not need or desire. Because of that you get next to no interaction. If when I phased into WQ and 2 to 4 NPCs that did like some terrible 200k DPS appeared and just killed shit it would be just about the exact same experience. In some cases better because 1 to 2 of them wouldn't just be hovering above the ground on flying mounts.

90% of my random player interactions in vanilla ended in never speaking to them again too. You form a community with a guild and people who do the same things you do in the game, not random players you meet killing an elite mob.This hasn't changed, which is why mythic guilds are probably the healther part of the community, but ofcourse they only interact with other mythic guilds.

Chat? Come up with a plan? For what? A mob that just melee swings harder? You talked the same as you talk now: Hi and thanks for group. It wasn't AOE because you didn't have decent AOE skills to begin with.

So you think that grouping up to kill elites is not for speed nor efficiency? Desire? Do you think people desired to have to wait for others to arrive to be able to advance on that quest?
What need was there at level 60 to group with random people for world content? So that you farmed less money and items in Tyr's Hand? So that you get less reagent random drops? World content was already trivial at level 60, and for those that it wasn't it was because their gear was cancer. If you want to have the same experience, ask for gear to be scarce again.

[Aggrophobic]

Bullshit. In Legion, world is populated but people just ignore each other because you can solo non-instanced content.

How is that different from vanilla? You could solo 99% of all world content and other players where usually just annoying.