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  1. #181
    Dreadlord Mask's Avatar
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    Why can't casters cast while moving?
    Have you ever tried casting a fireball while walking around? It is nearly impossible. This is just game mechanics mimicking reality.

  2. #182
    I've raided as melee and ranged over the years, and I've always chuckled at the notion that no one would bring melee if ranged could move and DPS. Fact of the matter is that generally the reason most melee have had a harder time getting a raid spot is that there are so many melee that you can find raids swamped with them if you aren't careful. Melee has never been in so bad a spot that no one would bring them, yes even during MoP.

    Secondary to that, ranged being able to move and DPS isn't a balance issue, or at least not one in a world where your Developers properly balance DPS output. Whether moving or not, it's a number just like all the others. If Ranged's DPS is too high comparative after adding movement, well you tone it down, or your tune up melee.

    Ranged being OP in MoP had less to do with Ranged being able to move, and just as much to do with some ranged specs being OP to start with and then adding movement on top of it just made it more OP. The problem wasn't that Ranged could move and DPS, the problem was the classes were out of whack with or without movement. Blizzards failure at balancing shouldn't be a justification for game play to be less fun for a segment of the population.

    Frankly it isn't much different that what you see in Legion where certain specs are forced to have niche's while others don't. ST being bad while having good AOE is ok. AOE being bad but having good ST is ok. Neither is ok when you look at another 5-6 specs where both are equally top notch.

  3. #183
    Simple solution: casting while moving reduces the effectiveness of said spell by 1% for every second moving. Maximum reduction of 20%.

  4. #184
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    Sure, but ele does not. Also, think if melee could only use one ability for dps while moving.
    Ele has the pseudo blink ability I can't remember the name of. Gust of Wind? I have also seen a disturbing lack of mentions about stutter stepping or whatever you want to call it during instant cast GCDs to move into position for some mechanics.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    Iirc shadow was used on quite a few world first mythic ToS kills, but im not home to completely varify, my brain might be playing tricks on me and they were holy/disc lol. If it's viable in that environment, its viable for almost anything.
    Make up your mind if you're talking about being mobile or viable. These two are not equivalent.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    Why can melee use all there abilities while moving?
    Because they can't do it from a distance.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    But thats casting and moving cant have that. No more envenom on the move for my rogue.
    What are you even talking about?

    Casting isn't what melee does.

  8. #188
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginfleth View Post
    Make up your mind if you're talking about being mobile or viable. These two are not equivalent.
    People have been arguing that shadow priests do bad damage on any fight where you need to move. Well guess what? Method used one, sometimes two Spriests ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR KILLS IN TOS! The class might not be mobile, but it's not lacking in the damage department. I never mentioned mobility, I just said the class can do well at what they're suppose to do, which is deal damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    Okay and? Its one ability on a long cd that does nothing to help you cast on the move.
    Gust of Wind is a 15 second CD. That's not a long CD at all.

    If you don't see how this ability helps your mobility, I think we're done here, because you probably don't have a grasp on how casters work.

    Edit: Ele shaman can also spec into Icefury to give them high damaging instant casts to use on the move. I really hope you don't play an Ele shaman.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2017-07-17 at 09:04 PM.

  9. #189
    Simple, ranged is already OP. Blizzard already said this, and it is why many things changed after WoD.

  10. #190
    Bloodsail Admiral DaHomieG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    It's a tradeoff for being able to stand wherever you want within a 30-40 yard radius of whatever you're attacking, as opposed to a melee who has to stick close to the target at all times.
    This basically^. Plus from a lore stand point, spells require a lot of concentration, so naturally you'd have to stand still real quick to focus on the spell. Some spells are instant cast and can be done on the go which theoretically is like quick, non-focus requiring spells.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Neither are ideal at all.

    I'm just confused where people are getting this over-exaggeration of gap closers for Melee. The class with the "most" that I can think of is Warriors, with a whopping 2 gap closers, one of which has a decently long CD anyway (Heroic Leap). That still isn't quite enough to handle every single time melee has to get out of melee range for specific fights. Some might have an easier time due to how short their CD is (like Demon Hunters/Monk, since their dash/roll doesn't require a target), but you're still losing dps when you have to move away from the boss. I'm really not sure why that part is being ignored by so many.
    Yeah I don't get it either. I posted something saying that both melee and ranged have their downtimes. Somebody else said that down time should be minimized because it isn't fun which I completely don't understand. There will always be mechanics you have to do instead of dps. That's how the game is supposed to work. Melee will move out of melee range to dodge fire or something and ranged will have in interrupt their cast. I think the alternative is even worse. The whole fun of raiding is about not getting killed off by a mechanic. Finding optimal ways to reduce movement is part of the skill involved in raiding as well. If you remove the whole preplanning phase from a raid then you significantly reduce the amount of preplanning needed as a ranged. You just remove a bunch of the skill involved IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    100% spot on. I mentioned the warlock issues in MoP, and the fact no was even taking KJC when Demo was in the top spot with UVLS. Then blizzard gutted the class and overbuffed Destruction. Simply being able to cast Inc on the move did not make them op.
    Nobody was taking it or playing Destro because the alternative was OP because they physically made it so that KJC was bad. Originally everybody was using it and it was OP until the nerfed the fuck out of it. I remember 5.0. I was there. My point still stands that if they make Ranged cast while moving melee will outshine the fuck out of them on DPS because that will be how Blizzard balances it. Just like KJC where they nerfed it into the ground.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    If you have to go back to vanilla to try and form an argument you have lost. The game has changed since then in case you have not played in 12 years
    I'm showing an extreme example of ranged vs melee mobility issues. This is relevant because the game should never have that happen. If people want to move at FULL movement speed while casting in the current meta then they will outrun and outdps melee on all fronts

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Because there'd never be a reason to play melee if that was possible.
    Beast Mastery has literally no moves they need to stand still to use.

    The reason casters cannot move is because game balance. (PVP)

  14. #194
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    That you has a cast time to use.........
    What?

    /10chars

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    Clearly you were not there as it was not the case in MoP.
    Yes it was lol. You're saying it didn't happen because Demo was OP with the trinket off of the last boss of ToT. You do realize ToT was the second tier of the game, right? As in, after they gutted KJC already.

  16. #196
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    Icefury has a cast time and a 30s second CD genius.
    And? You don't have to move constantly, between Gust of Wind, Icefury, Earthshock, and Flame shock you can easily cover a large portion of your movement, and worst case scenario you can ghostwolf. I'm not saying shamans are the most mobile caster in the game, but they have options.

    Edit: There are also legendary shoulders which give you a free EQ that deals increased damage. Also, ironically calling me a genius when you use a sentence like "That you has a cast time to use......" is pretty lol.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2017-07-17 at 10:38 PM.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    After getting the legendary boots that let you cast while moving for a few seconds, I just find myself wondering why this isn't baseline. It feels absolutely amazing to be able to cast while moving, even for just those short 4 seconds at a time.

    This restriction becomes especially noticeable for Shadow Priests, where if you have to move more than a little bit, your DPS just drops like a rock. On top of having bad mobility, you don't have much in the way of instant cast spells, so if you have to move for more than 1-2 seconds, you're fucked, due to how Voidform works.

    I do remember at one point, I think during WoD, Hunters could freely cast while moving. That seemed to turn out okay, as far as I could tell. So...is there any specific reason why we can't cast while moving? With more and more movement-based mechanics, having to stand still to cast just seems weird and clunky.

    If it's a PvP balance issue, perhaps it could be restricted in PvP areas.
    I think that there is proberly alot of Blizz posts and interviews, which explain why they made the changes in MoP and WoD, which removed casting-while-moving. I can come up with a 100 reasons why they should have it back and a 100 reasons why they should not. All in all, i remember agreeing with Blizzard on the topic in the past and i think it is a good skill celling to put on caster: To know when to move, what you need to do while moving and how to prepare for movement.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  18. #198
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    No, it was not. KJC was not until nerfed later on and then wound up with just being able to cast incinerate on the move.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, my grammar error means that Elemental is not shit and does not struggle with movement.
    No, it's just funny that you insult someone's intelligence after making an incredibly obvious and basic mistake. Shamans have plenty of movement options, plan better and stop being bad.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    But keeping it this way makes PvP a shitfest of melee dominated asscancerchiphillaids. THe theory in PvP being that casters need to be able to root themselves and cast to do decent damage, and melee need uptime to do damage, so generally melee do more damage per global than casters (by a fair margin) because their damage is balanced around not having 100% uptime.

    Except they do. Melee is so mobile, they effectively have 100% uptime against all but 2 ranged specs, which also means that casters cant ever take advantage of THEIR supposed 'benefit' of doing insane damage when they DO manage to wind up a cast. And since melee have effective 100% uptime, casters get EVEN LESS chance to wind up a cast because melee have so many ways to shut down casting. Not only do all melees have an interrupt directly - all but one on substantially shorter CDs tha ranged interrupts - stuns are also effectively interrupts, as are some gap-closers (grips), and offensively-used immunities and some specialty abilities (knockdowns, stupid-ass DH float-in-the-air weaboo fantasy bullshit). Oh, and blanket silences. And passively applied, no-opportunity-cost, cancerously potent snares. Against some melee, you might have to somehow live 40+ seconds withoutnever getting even a short hard cast off. Good fucking luck with that. And what do ranged (with a few outliers - frost mage, boomkin) get for all this shit they have to eat? Damage that isnt even as good or reliable as a melee instant that cant be interrupted,or stopped short of CCing the melee.

    There is no effective equivalent to interrupts for melee (supposedly "being kited" - which most range cannot do anymore)
    There is no effective equivalent to blanket silences for melee.
    Only one (maybe 2?) ranged have an equivalent to passively applied snares. Some have NO snares (quite a few, actually) and all but Frost snares are worse than melee snares, so they can still stick on you anyway.
    There is no effective equivalent to all the gap-closers hat melee have for most range. Some ranged have NO escapes without Talenting, and in all but one or two cases, even the worst melee have 2 closers to most ranges 1 opener... with shorter cooldowns to boot.
    I don't care about PVP...

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    I just find myself wondering why this isn't baseline. It feels absolutely amazing to be able to cast while moving,
    It was for destro in MoP.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

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