2017-2018 NFL thread

[Vetali]

Yeah that news doesn't really shock me. The team has been crumbling since the start of that SB game with no relief in sight. They've failed to build a team around Cam.

[xskarma]

Yeah that news doesn't really shock me. The team has been crumbling since the start of that SB game with no relief in sight. They've failed to build a team around Cam.

I thought they were actually doing pretty smart things, but then this happens.

It has every bit the feeling that their owner decided to choose to be sentimental and loyal to his old players and Gettleman is a no nonsense GM that hands out contracts he thinks will help the team. Every issue that gets brought up is about players over 30 that he didn't re-sign or had a rocky negotiation with to get a deal done.

The problem with Gettleman seems to be that he's handled parting ways with players badly. Pretty much all of them seem resentful. Keeping the players on your team happy, even if you have to tell some of them no is a key trait if you want to have a long career as a GM. It seems Gettleman may be lacking that particular thing.

[Grube]

Managing the cap and not giving risky contracts are the job of a GM. Being friendly with the players isn't. There is a reason all of the consistently successful teams let go of players that are near the end of their career and being paid more than the GM perceives their worth to be (Steve Smith) or don't give players that had 1 good year top of their position money (Josh Norman).

The Panthers have never had back to back winning seasons in their history, and there is only 1 common denominator with them throughout this time. If they bring in someone to make players happy, that probably won't change.

[draynay]

Gettleman royally fucked things up with Norman, but he put plenty of offensive talent around Newton, not his fault he doesn't know how to complete a pass.

[Vetali]

Managing the cap and not giving risky contracts are the job of a GM. Being friendly with the players isn't. There is a reason all of the consistently successful teams let go of players that are near the end of their career and being paid more than the GM perceives their worth to be (Steve Smith) or don't give players that had 1 good year top of their position money (Josh Norman).

The Panthers have never had back to back winning seasons in their history, and there is only 1 common denominator with them throughout this time. If they bring in someone to make players happy, that probably won't change.

Franchise tagging someone, then letting them go right before camp is about the lowest of moves a GM could make.

Dude was a sack of shit.

[xskarma]

No one was signed today on the last day of the Franchise tag.

This means Cousins is likely gone. Washington released a statement about the contract offer they made, and Overthecap demolished any notion that it was a good contract. With them now already in damage control mode, I bet things will get real ugly in Washington this year.

Le'Veon Bell also didn't get a long term deal but his case is a bit more tricky. He's not signed his tag yet, so it;s likely he skips out on camp for a large part in protest. You have to wonder what that does for his game readyness in September.

Obviously the Steelers want him back, but how badly do they want him? He's never around when they need him, then when he shows up he's real good. He'll need to prove he's on the field and performing this year, into the playoffs or I think the Steelers will just let him walk to the highest bidder next season.

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"#Redskins best offer for Kirk Cousins was a 5-yr extension worth less than $110M, I'm told. With $24M in '17, it's 6 yrs, $133M - or Flacco"

Rapoport


Seems Cousins agents are already firing back about the contract. After the deal Derek Carr just got this deal is ludicrous. Why would he settle for a contract that will be no more than average soon enough when he can just play out this year and basically set the market next year as a free agent.

[Darth Belichick]

It's gonna be a sad day when BB isn't running the GM/Coach side of things. Seeing other team's dysfunction really makes you appreciate what they have.

[xskarma]

It's gonna be a sad day when BB isn't running the GM/Coach side of things. Seeing other team's dysfunction really makes you appreciate what they have.

I was thinking about that earlier, but here's the thing: BB had an owner that stuck by his side, even when he made HIGHLY unpopular decisions. Here's another thing: BB managed to still be wildly successful despite making some really unpopular decisions (or, perhaps, because of them).

There was a near riot in New England when he released Lawyer Milloy, and Milloy signed with the Bills and the Bills beat the Patriots 31-0 in the opener. But he managed to keep his owner by his side and he managed to get his locker room to (eventually) focus on the season and they ended the season winning the Superbowl.

I think that's the difference, Belichick may come across as the grumpy, heartless bastard, but somehow he's still managed to keep people's trust and keep people from revolting and in most cases he's managed to also (eventually) get back on the good side of the players that left.

Belichick seems to just be very rigid and hold on to what he believes is best for the team and never let sentiment get in the way, but he does so openly and never shies away from it or does backhanded stuff or play games to get his goals. I think that blunt honesty is what hurts players in their dealings with him, but it's also what eventually makes them come around to him again.


Things might have been very different in New England and for Belichicks legacy if he didn't have a patient and steadfast owner like Kraft and honestly, possibly too if he had not won the Superbowl in that 2003 season when he let Milloy go. I think once he survived that widely publicized situation it got increasingly easier for him to make the next unpopular decision and keep people's trust and it just snowballed from there to where now he could send Brady packing and I'm fairly sure a sizeable portion of the fans would trust his judgement in doing so.

[Pendulous]

Everyone already knew Cousins was gone. He wants to play in San Francisco, and he's gonna make it happen.

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Bell also isn't unexpected because of the suspensions. You don't take a long-term chance on someone like that.

[draynay]

"#Redskins best offer for Kirk Cousins was a 5-yr extension worth less than $110M, I'm told. With $24M in '17, it's 6 yrs, $133M - or Flacco"

Rapoport


Seems Cousins agents are already firing back about the contract. After the deal Derek Carr just got this deal is ludicrous. Why would he settle for a contract that will be no more than average soon enough when he can just play out this year and basically set the market next year as a free agent.

Should've made that offer last year.

[xskarma]

Should've made that offer last year.

Yep. Would have been before Luck's contract then too, and that's obviously driving up the price right now. Last year Cousins could have likely not asked for Russel Wilson money and would have had to stay below that. And below Roethlisburger and Eli's contracts. So it likely would have been cheaper than this contract.

We all predicted what would happen if they didn't sign him last year and it happened just as predicted. No idea what the Washington front office thought would happen differently. They HAD to make a long term decision on him last year and either sign him or let him walk. Clearly they didn't trust in their own judgement enough to make the call.


Actually, there's a 3rd option. They never had any intention to re-sign him BUT also didn't want to start over yet at QB, cause they were competing pretty well. So they decided to let him just play on the tag one or 2 years and then cry crocodile tears when he left them, while actually wanting to start over at QB anyway. They just didn't want a competitive team go to waste when they had finally got one.

So now it seems likely that the team will regress, with or without Cousins, so they take one more shot this year and then start again on offense. They have a line, but they have no passing game outside of their TE Reed and WR Doctson after this year and they have no RB, except a 4th round rookie. So start again when Cousins leaves, build a new offense to fit around the QB you find. They will likely have to pull some Arizona/Houston shenanigans and put assets together to trade up in the draft to make a run at a QB next year, but it;s doable.

This seems a bit smart and well thought out for the Washington front office to have planned it, but it's possible. (it's also stupid cause Cousins is at worst league average, and still improving and learning and they should have known what they had in him.)

[draynay]

Its stupid because of how they could've structured the contract to have more cap space instead of putting $44mil to tags without any long term benefits, they just dig themselves deeper and deeper with their indecision. Its the same kind of mismanagement Detroit had with Johnson & Suh, let the tag price escalate so high you either have to grossly overpay or let them walk.

[Vetali]

Its entirely possible both SF and Arizona are looking for QBs next season at least. He won't be a redskin next year.

[xskarma]

Its the same kind of mismanagement Detroit had with Johnson & Suh, let the tag price escalate so high you either have to grossly overpay or let them walk.

I was walking around while letting my tea steep and contemplating this and other things, and I came to a conclusion: Isn't it just about time we just got rid of the Franchise tag?

I mean, it's GROSSLY unfair to a lot of players. Some of them get franchised and lose a year out of their already short career and get put in a worse negotiating position cause they are a year older and a year of injury risk further when they hit free agency (in the cases they do not sign long term when tagged).

But, I'd argue it's bad for teams too. You already mentioned Detroit and Washington is one obviously that's hurt its self with it's use of the tag. And the Rams were stupid too by tagging Johnson. Every year there's teams that tag players who are either absolutely not worth what they get on the tag or using the tag on them makes any future negotiating with them almost impossible.

Even in the cases where the team just uses it as a short term tool to force the player to negotiate and they work out a long term contract, it's STILL a bad tool. You are already guaranteeing them a top 5 salary, making it far less interesting for players to negotiate with you for anything less than that. Look at Le'Veon Bell this year. Why would he sign a deal that pays him 9 or 10 million a year when he's already getting 12 million guaranteed? A team would need to include this tag in their long term contract, easily raising the total a few million than if they had NOT used the tag.

From the passed few years, it seems to me the only situations where teams were using the tag and NOT getting burnt on it, was when they used it for positions where the tag was actually lagging behind on what the market realistically should be. Which means you are screwing over the players.

So I;d argue the tag is bad for both players AND teams and it might be high time that we just got rid of it.


I mean, the only reason we have the tag is cause of the change to Free Agency and how scared teams were to give up complete control over players. So we got the tag to give teams at least a little control so they wouldn't be scared of this new fangled free agency thing. But we've had Free Agency for many years now, teams know what it is, have dealt with the process, they shouldn't need a tool like the Franchise tag anymore.


Yes, teams will have to give up their negotiating tool and that's going to hurt them a bit, but honestly, with how much the NFL players get shit on, it's very little to give up for teams in comparison to what it costs players. And like I argued above, it's bad for teams too.

If you are using the tag to force a player to negotiate with you, then, novel thought, why not negotiate with them 1 year earlier when you still have them under contract. You don't NEED the tag. You already had this player under contract, you had many years to extend them, why the hell do you let the contract run out and only then start negotiating? It's ass backwards and it only happens cause teams have the tag to use and force players to negotiate.


So yeah, short story long, the NFL should just get rid of the damn tag. Players would be better of, teams would be better of and it would solve a lot of animosity and stupidity between teams and players by making the process simpler.

[Robbyjawz]

Its entirely possible both SF and Arizona are looking for QBs next season at least. He won't be a redskin next year.

I know that a ton of fellow Niners fans really want Cousins to come over next season, he already has the Kyle Shanahan connection. It was rumored that he didn't want RGIII at all, and basically got his own personal project QB in the fourth round. He got a little pet project in CJ Beathard this last draft to groom as a backup. I can see SF spending back to bring in Cousins and some more offensive firepower, they have a ton of cap space.

I don't know AZ's cap situation, but I know that the friends I have who are AZ fans were really mad when KC jumped them to pick up Mahomes.

[Vetali]

AZ fans were really mad when KC jumped them to pick up Mahomes.

Yep they were super salty.

AZ could be without Fitz and Palmer contracts next year but have to start thinking about David Johnson soon. I do still consider the 9ers to be the favorites for Cousins.

[Robbyjawz]

Yep they were super salty.

AZ could be without Fitz and Palmer contracts next year but have to start thinking about David Johnson soon. I do still consider the 9ers to be the favorites for Cousins.

Yeah, I really see the Cards as possibly going to be the division dregs soon if Lynch/Shanahan pan out for the Niners.

Somewhat off topic, but not. I was talking to one of my coworkers, and we were discussing sports memories. I recall as a 9 year old kid, I made 200 bucks betting at a Super Bowl Party during the Rams-Pats Super Bowl, and that is one of the key things that made me such a die hard sports fan that I am today. I was no Patriots fan by any means (I wanted the Raiders to win the Tuck Rule Game) but I felt that it was my duty to root for the team that was called the Patriots. The Rams were also a divisional rival, and I couldn't stand for them possibly winning another Super Bowl. What are some memories that got you guys/gals into sports?

[Vetali]

Yeah, I really see the Cards as possibly going to be the division dregs soon if Lynch/Shanahan pan out for the Niners.

Somewhat off topic, but not. I was talking to one of my coworkers, and we were discussing sports memories. I recall as a 9 year old kid, I made 200 bucks betting at a Super Bowl Party during the Rams-Pats Super Bowl, and that is one of the key things that made me such a die hard sports fan that I am today. I was no Patriots fan by any means (I wanted the Raiders to win the Tuck Rule Game) but I felt that it was my duty to root for the team that was called the Patriots. The Rams were also a divisional rival, and I couldn't stand for them possibly winning another Super Bowl. What are some memories that got you guys/gals into sports?

I don't think Bruce Arians has more than 2 years left. 9ers drafted pretty well on paper. They'll be on the rise in a few years if everything pans out.

Sports memories? Probably watching Griffey and Payton growing up. I had NBA jam and I'd always play as Payton/Kemp. Stopped watching the Mariners after 2001 and few years later got into football at a great time:



Then it was off and on. I remember a lot of the 2005 season, Tony Romo botched snap, Rex Grossman goin deep, Holmgren's final game. 2009 was too painful to watch so I watched the Vikings a lot. Didn't have much hope for 2010. Watched a lot of 2011 because we became the Vikings. Started watching the Mariners in 2012 again.

Even though things are good right now for the Seahawks, I still don't think you can beat the 90s Seattle sports stars. Only current Seattle player to give me that tingly feeling that Griffey gave when he demolished a baseball is probably Cano. Must be a swing thing.

[Pendulous]

Oh, and Lucky Whitehead's dog was stolen for ransom money apparently. Fuck this shit

This poor fucker. Lucky can just find out who it is, then send his friend over to "convince" them to let the dog go.

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So the Whitehead dog situation gets weird https://twitter.com/Saycheese_Media/...39075949547520

Supposedly this subhuman didn't steal it, Lucky's ex did and sold it to him, and he just wants his money back.

[xskarma]

What are some memories that got you guys/gals into sports?

Sports specifically: Dutch men's soccer team European Cup victory in 1988. I'd always enjoyed sports, but in the sense of doing them, not watching them. But that tournament made me see how amazing it was to watch sports. I still vividly remember being in our old home and watching this goal unfold. That whole summer was basically one big orange festival and it kept me hooked on soccer for pretty much 20 years.

Football specifically: At some point though, I'd basically seen it all in soccer, highs and lows, and I'd just grown bored with it. So on one fateful night in September 2007 I was up in the middle of the night cause I couldn't sleep and I was just flipping through channels trying to find anything to occupy my mind. In one of the far back channels I found an American Sports channel. I didn't even now we had this channel before then. And this channel was showing the start of a football game, just a few min played. So I was like "this might be interesting" and sure enough pretty quickly I was enjoying this really good QB just carve up the opposing defense. The QB was Tom Brady, the defense was the NY Jets. This was opening night 2007 Patriots at Jets, the infamous Spygate game, of which no one of course had any idea at the time.

I'd watched football in the distant past, I'd seen parts of some Superbowls (most notably a Cowboys win in the 90's with Emmit Smith) and I'd watched some of the NFL Europe games back in the day, when NFL Europe was a thing and my country had a team (Amsterdam Admirals). I knew how the basics of the game worked, so it wasn't hard to follow along with the game as it unfolded.

And I watched Tom Brady do Tom Brady things to the Jets. Even as a complete noob to the current NFL, it stood out a mile that this QB was something else. He made it all look so effortless and Randy Moss looked like a ridiculous athlete too and Wes Welker seemed to just catch everything and they just kept moving the ball when they needed to. I had a LOT of fun watching that game. I made the decision that I was going to watch more NFL games if I was awake for them.

The next time I was able to watch the broadcast kept going on about a scandal, I watched the Patriots win, I looked up what the scandal was supposed to be in more detail and through more games and as more of the bullshit about "Filming from the wrong location-gate" got out, it just made it ever more easier to root for the team. I was under pressure from outside forces too at that time and it gave me something positive in my life to root for and give the virtual middle finger to everything I had going on.

2007 Superbowl was cancelled, which was a shame, cause I was really curious what would happen to the 18-0 Patriots and I got help for my issues,so by the time the 2008 season started I had a less pressing need to follow the team. Yet, there was something about the sport that had kept me interested, and first game of the 2008 season, I had a stream fired up and I was watching. And then Brady got hurt. I watched the rest of that game, but I pretty much stopped watching after that. Brady wasn;t playing, and his back up was definitely not even close to as good, so there went any reason I had to watch games. I watched some of the later games that year, mostly in the playoffs, but VERY casually.

So, I was in a better place and football wasn;t as interesting to me without Tom Brady, yet, opening night 2009, there I was watching. Something about football kept dragging me back to watch it. 2009 was the first season I watched every game (and I haven't missed one since) and it was probably the worst season the Patriots had during Belichick's tenure apart from 2002. Yet, I kept watching and grew ever more fanatical about the game.

Things pretty much snowballed from there and here we are.

I've tried going back in my mind to those days in 2007 and trying to figure out what would have happened if I had watched say, Peyton Manning and the Colts that night. Or Favre and the Packers. Would I have kept watching, would I have stayed interested? I think I probably would have, but I can't deny that through the Patriots I adopted Boston sports teams as my American rooting interest and there's been countless other things that flowed from that night where I decided to keep watching these Patriots and Tom Brady. It would be very weird to think of myself as a Colts/Pacers fan, or a Packers/Bucks fan. Yet, it might have happened.

Thankfully it didn't though, it's been MUCH more interesting to be a Patriots/Celtics fan these passed 10 years and it will continue to be a much more interesting thing for the forseeable future.