Tomb of Sargeras Progression Thread

[Naibil]

Quoting myself from earlier:

Part of the difficulty back then came from needing people who were actually attuned to Naxx, having 40 people with the gear to do it, needing 4 tanks, and the fact that there just wasn't information out there on the fights like we have today. So people were going in blind.

[Temp name]

Part of the difficulty back then came from needing people who were actually attuned to Naxx, having 40 people with the gear to do it, needing 4 tanks, and the fact that there just wasn't information out there on the fights like we have today. So people were going in blind.

That doesn't mean the raids themselves were harder. It means the organization and tactic-developing was harder. Which means that for most of the people in the raid it was far, far easier

[Deleted]

Part of the difficulty back then came from needing people who were actually attuned to Naxx, having 40 people with the gear to do it, needing 4 tanks, and the fact that there just wasn't information out there on the fights like we have today. So people were going in blind.

The first part of your answer has nothing to do with the encounter difficulty (mechanic wise). For the second part ("discovering the mechanics"), please man, the encounter has one phase and ONE FUCKING mechanic per horseman (the 4 of them being trivial to figure out: one is pool on the ground, one is a meteor you have to soak with the group, one is a "chain lightning" type spell on the tank, and the last one is a cone ability on the tank again), and the mark mechanic.
If this was hard to figure out for guilds in Vanilla, goddam the level of play was awful. It should not take more than 10 pulls to figure this out (and i'm extremely generous).

[Aggrophobic]

compared to today... back than They were hard

No, they were not hard.
People were less informed and had less tools to help them but bosses were simple as heck.

[Deleted]

The worst parts of KJ are only the Armageddon soak or there is something else even worse in the later phase? (No need to expand on that, just curious if the "bad design" carry on to the later phases).

Can't really say much without leaking, but yeah, there's more to the fight than just armageddon soaking.

[Deleted]

Quoting myself from earlier:



Basically 4Horsemen had one general mechanic "not trivial" to deal with, then depending on which horseman you were DPS ing, you had either nothing to do for 3 of them, or avoid pools on the ground for the 4 th one.
How can this be consider difficult?

you coming back in 10years again ? and say "lol this had only 10 abilitys compared to the 25 we got now"

[Deleted]

you coming back in 10years again ? and say "lol this had only 10 abilitys compared to the 25 we got now"

It's not just "hurr durr the boss has more abilities so he is harder". It's also the fact that those abilities are just... basic? Simple?

And yes, if the boss of the future are harder (Which is likely going to be the case, the encounters generally become harder and harder as time goes by) i'll comeback and defend their difficulty, and i won't say "hu hu the good old days, it was so hard".

[Deleted]

It's not just "hurr durr the boss has more abilities so he is harder". It's also the fact that those abilities are just... basic? Simple?

And done with default UI.

[Deleted]

No, they were not hard.
People were less informed and had less tools to help them but bosses were simple as heck.

so what ? for the time being it was hard. not that hard to understand

[Deleted]

And done with default UI.

There were addons in classic. Including bossmods. And people say that default UI is a big deal. If a boss is as simple as 4 horsemen were, there is very little to gain from addons.

[Deleted]

And done with default UI.

For the example of 4 Horseman, not standing in front of the tank/near the tank/standing all together for the meteor/not standing in the pool does not require 25 add ons and a super customize UI (But maybe i'm wrong).

As for the marks mechanics, you just have to wait for the RL to call for the rotation (and the RL just has to look at the top right of it's screen, instead of the middle with a wa, big deal).

[Immortal]

No, they were not hard.
People were less informed and had less tools to help them but bosses were simple as heck.

First bossess that had non-trivial mechanics and were tightly tuned, but still killable, were in Sunwell if I remember correctly. And since Ulduar (well, actually Sartharion was the 1st example) Blizzard started splitting normal and hardmode/heroic versions and tuning the latter tighter, while not expecting most of the raiding playerbase to kill them at least before the next content patch. After that some bosses were harder, some easier, but their diffuculty can be compared directly.

There were addons in classic. Including bossmods. And people say that default UI is a big deal. If a boss is as simple as 4 horsemen were, there is very little to gain from addons.

Addons in vanilla were actually way more powerful than after 2.0, healing and dispelling could be completely automated with Decursive and Healbot. And yeah, bossmods and threatmeters existed at least since BWL times.

[Aggrophobic]

so what ? for the time being it was hard. not that hard to understand

No, they were not. But you're right, it's not that hard to understand so why don't you?

[Atherions]

race for world second is still on

[Clozer]

Why the fuck isn't this thread dead?

There are more than just one guild that progress on ToS. You know..

[jce4ever]

Why the fuck isn't this thread dead?

You must be new.

[Aggrophobic]

First bossess that had non-trivial mechanics and were tightly tuned, but still killable, were in Sunwell if I remember correctly. And since Ulduar (well, actually Sartharion was the 1st example) Blizzard started splitting normal and hardmode/heroic versions and tuning the latter tighter, while not expecting most of the raiding playerbase to kill them at least before the next content patch. After that some bosses were harder, some easier, but their diffuculty can be compared directly.

Meh, with a few exceptions you could have raiders half asleep during raids in both vanilla dn TBC and it didn't matter much. You needed gear to kill bosses but there was much less skilled involved.

I guess you could say that you can't compare them but at the same time, if you took a modern mythic raiding team, gave them relevant gear and put them into BT, they would clear that in an hour or two even if they never saw the place befor.

[Vorkreist]

compared to today... back than They were hard

SO FUCKING HARD. After playing on countless of private servers and doing most vanilla and tbc raids again I hate to break it to you but they are incredibly easy.
People try to ovetune and buff the raids way past their prenerf tuning in their time just so they won't get cleared in the first week of release but its always the same story.
The mechanics were way to simple back then compared to what we have now.

[Clozer]

True but only guild is worth talking about

This thread isn't called method's tos progression thread though.....

[Deleted]

so what ? for the time being it was hard. not that hard to understand

It's a tough concept to understand for some people that when I outpace Usain Bolt in a car I'm not the one with the bigger accomplishment.