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  1. #61
    Does it actually matter? Both specs in hands of a capable player do pull similar numbers. Differences mainly lie in the toolkit and mobility, which a good marksman still can compensate in most cases. I have been playing MM since the start of legion and wont switch to bm no matter what happens. I just cant stand BM, since to me it seems just braindead after playing the legion-marksman for quite some time now. BM gameplaywise really just is a melee that doesnt have to be in meleerange. I cant get myself to like it. All the mobility they took from the Warlords MM Hunter was virtually doubled and thrown onto the BM. Not that I'm all to salty about it. It was kinda fun while it lasted, but again imo Hunters shouldnt feel like a melee-dps (except for Survival obviously). What actually bothers me that Marksman gets screwed heavily by legendaries (not that most other speccs wouldnt suffer from bad legendaries). Where they more or less fixed BM's resourceproblems by making the shoulders baseline they yet ignored that marksman to some extend is too stationary. Could have baked the bracers effect into the specc to ease it up on heavy movement, since without proccs (or the bracers) mm is kinda screwed if he has to move around a lot especially if you are trying to get the most out of t20 2p.
    And who really cares about what rogerbrown and those guys play? Would you really switch to a specc which you might not even like just to have a pseudo-advantage which isnt even needed except for maybe in those Top-1%-Guilds? People tend to forget that there is mythic raiding and hardcoremythic raiding to claim world firsts. If we are talking about "serverfirsts"... lets face it there are a hell of a lot servers out there which have exactly one or two guilds left which are able to clear the content in time so there is not really any competition to worry about, and how many here in this thread actually participate in the real "wirld-first-race"?

    TL,DR:
    Play the specc you want. Both are competitive enough to not be a bother for your raid.

  2. #62
    honestly im switching between the two depending on the fight at this point. like on mythic mistress i go bm because it has a ton of movement and were not allowed to go ham on the adds because they need to die at a specific time. ill probably play bm for avatar also. for fights like harjatan and sisters mm is nuts though.

  3. #63
    Kinda of bored with it now but since I have 0 mm legs I can't really switch

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Mang View Post
    Kinda of bored with it now but since I have 0 mm legs I can't really switch
    Actually, you have the ring and I'm sure you have several utility legs. It's doable.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunterforlife View Post
    One guild on one successful run does not prove anything. So many factors involved, including the fact that their BM specs were probably their main spec last patch and therefore at a higher level. Let's give it a month or so and then come back to this topic. Let's get 1,000 or more parses for each mythic boss and then we can discuss intelligently. Initially, on the high movement fights like FA, BM will have an advantage, but as people learn the fights and when to move MM becomes just as reliable. For those where sufficient data exists, the numbers are clear, MM tops every fight so far. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13. On at least 3 bosses, over the last two weeks of Mythic, BM has been dead last in dps for all dps classes.
    I am pretty sure everyone here admits that when every person knows the fight, knows perfect position, knows perfect timings, and the boss is alive for a much shorter time that BM will not be acceptable number wise.

    That still does not change the fact that BM is solid for progression, where there is a lot of unknown movement and unknown timings.

    Saying "Lets wait for parses of everything being farm content for relevancy" is like saying "Lets wait till next expansion for relevancy." No one gives a shit once it is all farm content.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by jaimelannister View Post
    I'm not sure I would go this far.
    This is absurd, the #1 guild in the world has three hunters, and at least 2 of them have been BM on every single fight on mythic tos.

    This is reality: if it's good enough there is no point in switching and people generally won't no matter how much better something else is, BM is definitely good enough, proven effective as the spec has been present in every single world first of this mythic race, and so there's no debate needed to be had about it being just fine.

    Now if you already have the ability to play both specs at a sufficient level, then go ham, but otherwise just don't worry about it.

    Post race/post progress parses mean nothing to anyone other than for e peen value and for those trying to leave their guild for a better one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    BM is simply an excellent progression spec and will quickly fall behind on farm content.
    Saying it all really, thanks for the looking up the data on that too, cheers.
    Last edited by Shakou; 2017-07-18 at 06:04 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    This is absurd, the #1 guild in the world has three hunters, and at least 2 of them have been BM on every single fight on mythic tos.

    This is reality: if it's good enough there is no point in switching and people generally won't no matter how much better something else is, BM is definitely good enough, proven effective as the spec has been present in every single world first of this mythic race, and so there's no debate needed to be had about it being just fine.

    Now if you already have the ability to play both specs at a sufficient level, then go ham, but otherwise just don't worry about it.

    Post race/post progress parses mean nothing to anyone other than for e peen value and for those trying to leave their guild for a better one.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Saying it all really, thanks for the looking up the data on that too, cheers.
    Untill KJ when they ran 3 MM... just like every rekill of avatar with 3 MM..


    Pretty much at 925 and even up to 930 BM and MM are very close so you play BM for more utility...

    Once you start hitting 935 MM scales very well and BM gains nothing..

    Like between 930 and 935 ilvl BM goes up like 30k while MM gains like 80k.... same beween 935 and 940.. and once you get Medallion don't even think about it MM gains like 30k dps from that trinket vs BM its barely being 2nd BIS (3rd if you have a high enough convergence) Then again BM gains alot more from engine than MM does... so alot depends on what Trinkets you get to drop and how boosted your gear is...
    Last edited by Moshots; 2017-07-18 at 10:22 PM.

  8. #68
    @Moshots which 2 trinket are bis pair for BM ? Engine and ?

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayagurcu View Post
    @Moshots which 2 trinket are bis pair for BM ? Engine and ?
    Cradle for farm, tarnished for progression.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayagurcu View Post
    @Moshots which 2 trinket are bis pair for BM ? Engine and ?
    Covergence/Tarnished Sentinal Medallion

    Maybe cradle for farm.

  11. #71
    Deleted
    i ll owl maybe when they fix the dire frenzy tbh, until then ill be using stat sticks

  12. #72
    Marksmanship damage takes a larger hit from occasional proc droughts, and again the mobility creates a skill floor that complicates things further. The reason all the top end raids have been running BM is that it does consistent baseline damage, and has very reliable burst through shorter cooldowns, which is very important in controlling adds while taking as little raid DPS as possible away from the primary target.

    That said, I have the legendaries for both BM and Marks and my current approach has been leveling the artifacts equally (currently at 59 on both). For early progression, BM is definitely a favorable spec where the lower damage variance is needed to reliably re-clear farm. As raid gear level improves, and the damage floor rises, you'll have a thicker hedge on which to roll the dice.

  13. #73
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Atraxxa View Post
    Idk man, we have 4 hunters in our core raid group, 3 of us are BM and consistently do more dmg then our marks hunter. I keep hearing that Mark is the superior spec, I have yet to see where this is true in a real raid setting. We are better in most fights do to mobility and being able to do mythic mechanics without penalty to our dps and with the beast cannon build are AoE is insane for add fights as well.
    Link some logs please.

  14. #74
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    We are running into the issue where our warlocks and shamans are doing 1.2 mil dps while everyone else is doing 900k dps. I am not exactly sure why we don't just recruit more warlocks. Gah.....
    Last edited by Youn; 2017-07-20 at 04:40 PM.

  15. #75
    @Moshots If you could just stop posting forever that would be gr8
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    I'm glad you brought up IQ, the last standardised IQ test I took I scored a 127, the threshold for 'Genius' is 140, and the threshold for 'Gifted Genius' is 165+, based on the fact the global average IQ is 84, and the fact you're likely Americanwhere the national IQ is BELOW the global average and falling consistently which has led to calls for global intervention in your abysmal education system, I feel you have VERY LITTLE room to talk about IQ levels, but thanks for trying.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ThanksForTheMemories View Post
    @Moshots If you could just stop posting forever that would be gr8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKIuj4n_8PQjmgI

    All the flavors and you chose to be salty. I don't even know who you are lol. and even if i did I'm Too busy killing Mythic Bosses to pay attention to salty people.
    Last edited by Moshots; 2017-07-21 at 12:53 PM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshots View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKIuj4n_8PQjmgI

    All the flavors and you chose to be salty. I don't even know who you are lol. and even if i did I'm Too busy killing Mythic Bosses to pay attention to salty people.
    You haven't even killed the first hard boss yet mate. Sit down and stop spreading bad information.
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    I'm glad you brought up IQ, the last standardised IQ test I took I scored a 127, the threshold for 'Genius' is 140, and the threshold for 'Gifted Genius' is 165+, based on the fact the global average IQ is 84, and the fact you're likely Americanwhere the national IQ is BELOW the global average and falling consistently which has led to calls for global intervention in your abysmal education system, I feel you have VERY LITTLE room to talk about IQ levels, but thanks for trying.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by ThanksForTheMemories View Post
    You haven't even killed the first hard boss yet mate. Sit down and stop spreading bad information.
    bad info? lol

    what telling a BM hunter than medallion/convergence is 2nd BIS with engine... like the sims (for medallion) and the consensus of the good players in the hunter community say (convergence) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...c=BeastMastery Unless you have a boosted Arcano 880+ which alot of people don't.

    Srs still don't know who you besides some random salty dude..... Already reported you though for harassment so have a good day. because i honestly don't give a fuck if your roger brown acting like you are.. Just reporting you blocking you and moving on.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshots View Post
    Already reported you though for harassment so have a good day. because i honestly don't give a fuck if your roger brown acting like you are.. Just reporting you blocking you and moving on.
    Wow could you actually be more triggered. Cba writing a legit reply
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    I'm glad you brought up IQ, the last standardised IQ test I took I scored a 127, the threshold for 'Genius' is 140, and the threshold for 'Gifted Genius' is 165+, based on the fact the global average IQ is 84, and the fact you're likely Americanwhere the national IQ is BELOW the global average and falling consistently which has led to calls for global intervention in your abysmal education system, I feel you have VERY LITTLE room to talk about IQ levels, but thanks for trying.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moshots View Post
    bad info? lol

    what telling a BM hunter than medallion/convergence is 2nd BIS with engine... like the sims (for medallion) and the consensus of the good players in the hunter community say (convergence) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...c=BeastMastery Unless you have a boosted Arcano 880+ which alot of people don't.

    Srs still don't know who you besides some random salty dude..... Already reported you though for harassment so have a good day. because i honestly don't give a fuck if your roger brown acting like you are.. Just reporting you blocking you and moving on.
    Well he is right, 1. bm is one of the few classes where arcano is mediocre.
    It is only middle of the pack when at the same ilvl.
    And gets beaten by cof/cradle/medallion/bti/focci (and more..) even when these trinkets are 10-20 ilvls lower than the arcano.

    2. Onto engine: not bis ; loses out to cradle + other statsticks and medallion (naturally also a bti if you can get it that high).

    955! engine <<<< 950 medallion and 930!!!!!!! cradle (naturally other haste and mastery statstics will then also beat out a engine rather easily...)

    http://effin.highfiveguild.com/sims/..._trinkets.html
    @BM, 56 traits, Talents (2202012), 915/945 gear, 2pc/4pc tier

    The reason you see people using/ ranking high with the "wrong" trinkets --> people will use the best of what they can get/ have. In the end you use what the titanforge lottery grants you and not what the bis lists can tell you.
    Only much later in the tier, towards the end of the patch, will you see the rankings get close to displaying the actual bis trinkets for each fight.

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