Two-year old girl savaged by pit bulls and left scarred for life

[Zephyr Storm]

What you replied to and how often you are using "straw man" makes me think you don't actually know what a straw man is.

Someone saying "Technically you are a dangerous animal too" isn't a strawman.

Except that it is. Next please.

[Evangeliste]

Aggression and maliciousness are not synonymous.

There is so much double talk in your posts I don't know where to start.

On the one hand you acknowledge aggressive animals... on the other you try to make it sound like its ONLY EVER a product of how it is raised/trained.

If these 4 adult dogs and 13 pups had been born in the wild they would learn to kill/hunt for food. If given the opportunity on some unsuspecting toddler they would try and snatch it in a heartbeat.

Furthermore your comment about aggressive animals "mother properly"... its bullshit, wrong, flat out not true. You should probably avoid topics you know very little about.

Keeping on the topic of dogs, some breeds will kill their puppies if their instinct tells them the litter won't survive over a given size. I worked for a guy who had a pitbull who had puppies, and the male (father) bit one of its puppies when it tried to get the dad's food. Not an uncommon response from dogs and food... however that bite went through the puppies skull and popped his eye out... the puppy survived but was disfigured.

This idea of kind and nurturing vs aggressive and malicious is you giving human traits to an animal. They don't exist not in the animal world.

As noted there are always exceptions but these "dangerous dogs" are bred for their propensity toward aggression, and their physical ability to be able to cause harm.

It's quite obvious you evidently believe that being genetically aggressive means they are incapable of anything else. That's fine. I'm kind of bored telling you that not one factor plays a role, that's what nature versus nurture plays into.

[Zephyr Storm]

Why would your family be in danger from it if you have a house you could escort your family into for safety, the same house that you would have to get the gun from to shoot the animal in the first place.

I conceal and carry. I'd have the gun on me already if I'm outside. For reasons exactly like I've been describing above.....protection for my family and me at all times.

[Deleted]

From Wikipedia:

Yes, like any other dog pit bulls can be raised to be gentle and caring and just like any other dog they can snap without warning and attack. In case of pit bulls, they were bred to be strong fighting dogs so any attack by them is going to be way more dangerous. You would exercise caution around a tamed bear, wouldn't you? So why not a pit bull?

You know the dogs mentioned are mutts, not pit bulls right? It even says so in the title

[Travis B]

Except that it is. Next please.

Okay now I'm 100% convinced that you have absolutely no idea what "straw man" means and are just using it as some generic defense when you don't know what else to say.

[Mayonnaise]

Straw man more please.

Nice argument dude. That face that you even have a family and breed is probably more dangerous than this dog in the report

[Siraeyou]

Did u read under the bolded because its clear u didn't.

I didn't comment on the second portion of your statement because it's not what was ridiculous about your post, which was your piece of "advice" for the victims was complete bullshit, unless you expect people to refuse to go outside, while remaining on their own property, for fear of being viciously attacked by dogs that may live nearby.

I do however agree with your second point of dog owners have better control over their animals, since that alone will fix (insert generic percentage) of dog bullshit that happens.

[Crispin]

Don't leave your toddler children unattended around dogs, how about that? Matter of fact just don't let them near dogs until they're old enough to learn how to properly interact with them. Too many dumb ass parents let their kids play with dogs and the kids, being inexperienced, go around sticking their face right in the dogs own or pulling on their ears/tail etc. Then the dog bites them and the parents get pissed off.

Whats your view on parents letting their children play in a park, where someone might walk their dog unleashed? Are dogs taking precedence how human children? In the OP article, the dog is gaining entry to the neighbours area, are they at fault for not locking up the kid, so the poor dog can do as it pleases without accidently attacking a child? Most dog owners seem sensible, but there's a good amount, who think their dog needs to be "cool" cus it'll make them seem cool, and then there are thoose who thinks it's their fucking child. Dogs are animals and should be treated as such, muzzled and on a leach.

[Dug]

Whats your view on parents letting their children play in a park, where someone might walk their dog unleashed? Are dogs taking precedence how human children? In the OP article, the dog is gaining entry to the neighbours area, are they at fault for not locking up the kid, so the poor dog can do as it pleases without accidently attacking a child? Most dog owners seem sensible, but there's a good amount, who think their dog needs to be "cool" cus it'll make them seem cool, and then there are thoose who thinks it's their fucking child. Dogs are animals and should be treated as such, muzzled and on a leach.

Jeez I need to go back and edit that post. I wasn't commenting on this incident only for others who think a certain breed should be banned when my advice is just to not let your toddlers play with dogs until they're older period. Obviously that wasn't the case here and some dogs snapped and attacked them because of a careless owner owning 1) too many damn dogs 2) shit poor training more than likely. Either way, put the aggressive ones down and jail the owner, don't care.

In all other circumstances if you have a toddler child and he wants to "pway with the puppy" do not let them no matter the breed especially if you don't know the dog and even then I'd still advise against it because kids are generally rough with them and that's just asking to get snapped at.

[A dot Ham]

It's quite obvious you evidently believe that being genetically aggressive means they are incapable of anything else. That's fine. I'm kind of bored telling you that not one factor plays a role, that's what nature versus nurture plays into.

The nature vs nurture debate that relates to HUMAN psychology. It is an ongoing debate that ultimately becomes quite paradoxical.

You are quite clearly under the impression that if done correctly nurture always wins. With humans this isn't true so why would you assume it is for animals who's sentience is debatable.

This is becoming a pattern here where you attribute human emotions to an animal.

Aggression is not bad, malicious, sinister, or evil. Those are human traits, human emotions.

Predators display aggressive traits, canines being mostly carnivorous, are predators.

[truckboattruck]

Again are you trying to say some breeds don't kill?

im saying its stupid to pretend that a samoyed or newfoundland is as dangerous or likely to hurt you as a pitbull.
they never will be inclined to aggression like a pit and it is completely genetic

the statistics are a matter of public record, pitbulls are more dangerous by far than any other breed...even among those meant to fight

[lucred]

And once again we have people who know little to nothing about dogs blaming everything on "pitbulls." You know why pitbulls are in the news so often? Because every dog that has ANY SIMILARITY to the shape people associate with pitbulls is labeled a pitbull.

I saw a study about 8 years ago that checked on the breeds in reported attacks, and they found over 20 different breeds had been lumped into the pitbull category for the news reports. One of which was a freaking GOLDEN RETRIEVER! So yeah, if you group every attack under one heading, regardless of the breed, then you are (by definition) going to see that category as dangerous.
I think that study actually showed that while every other category was either a single breed or two breeds, the "pitbull" category covered 26 breeds... So of course a category with 26 breeds is going to have a higher occurrence of attacks than a category with ONE breed.

Edit: Oh, and in this case I would say the dogs definitely needed to be put down and the owner should have gotten a LOT more time for something like this... If you are going to have dogs, you need to make sure they are safe around others... a fence they can rip through in a few seconds definitely does not fulfill that obligation if you are leaving them outside while you are not around.

[matt4pack]

Yeah I hate animals. Glad the 2 year old is still alive though.

Human lives are more important than animal lives.

Yeah I hate idiots and you seem to be one. I would gladly put animals above you.

The thing that separates humans from animals is empathy and if someone doesn't have that they are no different.

[A dot Ham]

Why would your family be in danger from it if you have a house you could escort your family into for safety, the same house that you would have to get the gun from to shoot the animal in the first place.

So animal control picks up said stray... no one adopts it because it looks "threatening" and then the pound puts it down. Stop trying to demonize, making an opposition appear to have lower moral standards does not make your position any more right. Or vice versa.

Lets say for a second that the dog WAS "dangerous" looking, and that he DID call animal control. In some cities/towns animal control does not exist... or if they are busy police will be called. What happens if the officer then determines the dog is dangerous and shoots it? Is he also irrational?

At the end of the day an aggressive looking/acting dog is probably going to be put down one way or another. (without someone to claim it of course)

[The One Percent]

There needs to be more requirements for owning and especially breeding these animals. You don't have a right to own an animal, especially one that can cause so much damage when the owner doesn't do their job.

[Crispin]

There needs to be more requirements for owning and especially breeding these animals. You don't have a right to own an animal, especially one that can cause so much damage when the owner doesn't do their job.

This, I'm all for the owner having responsibility, but since we can't put the owner down if his dog attacks someone, restrictions on owning dogs should be in place. The whole "My dog is my child and would never do any harm" mentality is whats wrong with some dog owners.

[Templar 331]

The toddler and her great aunt, 57, were attacked by the 11-stone animals, which are a cross between American bulldogs and mastiffs

So where's this pit bull that's in the title?

Even so, this is a case of neglectful owner and not breeding. These dogs were nothing more than breeding stock for profit.

[Animalhouse]

I've owned pit bulls my entire life. Everyone I have ever had has been a horrible watch dog...they have all been just too damn nice. Would lick a stranger to death before biting them. For the most part pits are not people aggressive but dog aggressive. Every one of those "nice" pits I have owned are guilty of wanting to attack other dogs with a vengeance. Making it very difficult to walk them in some neighborhoods. I had a beautiful red nose that just snapped one day and damn near killed my sister's Jack Russel terrier. He even turned on my two cats that he was raised with. Eventually a moron acquaintance of mine came over (who the dog never met) and walked right in the yard leaving the gate open and he ran out in the road and was hit by a car and killed. Had he been half as aggressive as everyone claims they are, he'd of lived longer.

The problem is when a pit does attack a human it is ferocious beyond what most can imagine. They are EXTREMELY tenacious...even these fake ass pits known as bullies. Getting real sick of people calling them pit bulls, they are NOT. Anyway, owning a dangerous breed requires common sense. Look for ANY aggressive behavior towards friends and family and put the dog down. If your neighbor has children, introduce them to the dogs. Have them give them treats. If you think for a minute the dog would attack a neighbor kid that lives in a connecting property, keep the dog kenneled outside or only let them outside while you are out...etc.

I have recently had a change of heart regarding the pit bull. I currently own a brindle male and a red nose female (technically they are both half red nose, the mother was red nose and the father a beautiful brindle) brother and sister. They both turned 2 around mothers day but a few months ago they got in a fight over my 2 eldest kids throwing a football back and forth. They became very competitive with one another trying to get the football when one of my children dropped it. As I have said I have had pits my entire life but have never owned 2 at the same time till now. This fight was NASTY. I am 6'1 230lbs but it took me and my wife 10 minutes to get them apart. The fight was hard to describe other than fucking savage. Our female normally goes passive when the male gets an attitude but not this time. She would not relent nor would he. She is bigger at 80lbs and he is 65lbs but he still ripped holes in her neck and legs causing $400 in vet bills. He apparently is the kind of dog that tries to snap legs. I was covered in blood, both arms were saturated in blood, my kids were all crying and my wife wanted them both put down. We agonized on what to do as we kenneled the male (Loki) and took our female (Nova) to the vet. I decided to contact a local facebook rescue group and find a home for him since he is much more dog aggressive than Nova. Days went on and rescue struggled to find a home. During that time things returned to normal, we all had a big discussion on how to avoid the situation in the future...put one in the house when playing catch or whatever in the backyard if there is something the 2 could potentially fight over. This worked great and we decided to keep Loki. I know some of you are shaking your head but know this, they have been raised with my 3 year old who they love and follow her around the yard. If i have to go to the bathroom, I don't worry about anything happening to her with those 2 standing watch. She pulls their tail rides on them, sleeps with them and they have never for a moment been aggressive to her or any of my other kids or friends for that matter. If I or anyone in our home say "kennel" they quickly make their way to a large kennel we have in the home, they have not had an "accident" in our home since they were 3 months old...they are VERY well trained and loved. However, a few weeks ago my slap nuts son had a friend over and he was showing off and being tunnel visioned and let both dogs outside while him and his friend threw the frisbee. It happened again, I was downstairs (playing WoW) and my wife was screaming. I run upstairs to find they killing each other again. This time was even more difficult to break them apart. I grabbed a wooden dowel 2" thick and tried to pry Loki's mouth off but could not. Nova was ripping at his neck just as hard. I then started to whack the dowel across his back until it broke while my wife tugged on Nova's legs. Finally I unhooked the sprinkler and turned on the hose and sprayed it down both their throats eventually shoving the hose down Loki's throat that caused him to stop just log enough for us to keep them apart.

Now I was very upset with my son BUT, the kids should not have to worry about this. It is very traumatizing for the whole family. We have decided to get rid of Loki. We are having a difficult time finding a home. Everyone that wants him has at least one other dog and I don't want to get blamed for him killing a family pet. Hopefully we find a home soon cause as time goes on thing have returned normal again and another fight is inevitable.

Owning a pit bull takes awareness, training and love. But mostly awareness.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to explain my change of heart. We now have a new infant son (4mos old) and after seeing the ferocity and unbreakable tenacity I am questioning my position on owning pits with small children. I still say the media is biased as all you hear most time is "pit bull mix" but the other breeds mixed are NEVER brought into question. I feel strongly other breeds with the tendancy to bite humans with the build of a pit bull is a dangerous mix. Most bites happen from labs statistically. But dangerous mauls are all pit by a wide margin.
I will point out that pits are very popular in the US and if you were to be able to see how many times a pit was in a home with children without incident I am quite certain the chance of an attack is less than 1%...BUT as a WoW player with sever mounts from dungeons and raids, that 1% does happen and am I willing to take that risk with my baby? The answer is NO.

[A dot Ham]

Shooting a dog in your yard in front of your family is more immoral than it being put down humanely, yes.

Are you trying to make the case that animal control euthanizing a dog and Rambo over there shooting it in his front lawn are actually the same thing? I don't have to make them appear to have lower moral standards, because it is pretty self-evident that they do, in fact it's so evident that you felt the need to intercede to attempt to make them look less terrible.

First he's just shooting... now he's going rambo... and his faithful sidekick A.Ham is there to run interference from all the SJWs... gimme a break man.

Pretty sure we all watched Old Yeller... and we were all told shooting him was the humane thing to do. Not sure what has changed...

[Derpleton]

The breed of peace strikes again