16 year old German teen who joined ISIL captured by Iraqi forces in Mosul

[Deleted]

Someones getting wrecked tonight..

Also that link, lolmuricans. 4 photo's unblurred. Then they post a picture with a blur. I wonder what she looks like :O.
She will probably get german justice. 3h shoveling some gardens and a pat on the back.

"Dont zyou ever join international terrorism responsible for tzousands dead again girl!".
And shell be all like:
"yeah i learned from my mistake". "I'm so sorry" *dogeyes*.
And the germans be like:
"Ahhhh. She not so bad! Everyone can change, even a terrorist!"

And then she bombs a school 1 week later and we can all blame it on mysogony and not reintegrating terrorists better.

[lonely zergling]

Should be punished in Iraq. The german justice system is way too mild on teenagers and woman in general so I would prefer a real sentence in Iraq + we dont need such people in germany we got enough isis supporters already that came with the refugee stream.

[Arcrin]

traitor to what country ?

Germany. germany is at war against isis and terrorism in general in the middle east, she goes there and supports them even if she "just" married some isis soldiers the eventual outcome would be a bomb... sorry baby factory.

im well aware that this seems "extreme" seeing as no governemt gives a shit and lets even isis soldiers take a vacation in europe under the "refugee" tag. but its still the truth of the matter.

at 16 she put out the effort to get on plane to the middle east and join up with isis. and its like the swiss teenagers that cried that they wanted to come back after they did the same. they are insanely stupid but still traitors in wartime. imagine an english nurse who took on a german uniform when it saw her fit and then when the germans were about to loose she would just jump into her british uniform again. That woman would have been shot. this is excactly the same principles.

[Deleted]

Betray her loyalty to her parents to join an organization that has killed hundreds of people in Europe alone, not to mention the tens of thousands in the Middle East. Just as a starting point...

Yet we allow people who have actively killed people some hard sanction yet softer that the one that are presented here.
Is somewhat helping other who have killed worse than killing better.

Now, I am going to do something I hate because it bring to much shit on the table. However I'm more than infuriated by those comments so I don't care.
My old family name is Cohen, as you might know is a common jewish name.
Only a small part of my family suceeded in fleeing Germany to come to France where all of them except my grand father and grand mother, and father could hide in time.
Before I go on I just want to say :
-I don't claim to bear the grief of a period I didn't live, just to have lived with those who had.
-I don't say anyone here is a nazi.
-I don't want to make a point about nazi but about justice, so don't signal godwin point or whatever.

After the war there was a lot of things to be done in term of justice.
Few people were prosecuted, people denouncing their neighbor to claim their house, people driving train, soldiers in camps, collaborating french people none of them were to be convicted of anything because there were nothing to be done, how unfair it may seem. With Nuremberg there were a few death sentences, some life emprisonement and 10-20 years sentences of terrible people who have done worse than going in a other country supporting enemies.
And justice was served, that what I deeply believe. Those who were sentenced to death were those have done things way beyond redemption and those who weren't were part of a horrible system, because that how it was at that time.

However, I read now that some 16 years old girl who until proven the contrary as never harm anyone and possibly was a victim should met a similar-fate worse than those who commited those terrible crimes. Is there no redemption for a teenager, especially when we know nothing about it ?
We accept that murderers are not sentenced to death but her should be just on a whim of some internet angry mob ?
I'm outrage to see people just being so selective on who to do a witch hunt, just to serve their terrible agenda.
Justice is not vengeance, no matter how vengeance is tempting and god it can feel right but it simply is not.

It's a dumb kid that was manipulated. She is not (until proven the contrary) someone who have commited a crime so terrible she cannot be allowed to live anymore. Hopefully our respectives governments have a better sense of justice than those people, but I fear the day we let again our inhumanity take over.
I'm really fed up with that forum.

[DarkAmbient]

I'm calling BS on this; i mean on part of it. I agree with the first part. The second part is silly, though, I admit I find myself sympathetic toward the last sentence.

Maybe you don't remember being 16? Or you're own kids are distorting your view. But, at age 16, you absolutely both know better and sufficiently appreciate the enormity of supporting a group that wants to destroy civilization, murders, tortures, rapes...Obviously teens are idiots with regard to some things. But NOT decency toward human life. Stop giving them a pass or even a partial pass on this. This 16 is a f'n monster to join ISIL. 16yr olds aren't THAT immature and clueless (our society would be a complete disaster if that were the case. And I remember 16 very clearly; and it astonishes me how much cover 16 year olds get for the crap they pull. They are smart cookies. Sure they have hormone raging; they can't keep things in their pants, drink too much and are irresponsible. But murder? rape? terrorism? GTFO. AT 16, they know better. And if they don't, then the parent is a f'n disaster and needs to be in prison because they've abused that child to the point of dehumanizing them. If my kid did this, yeah sorry, I wouldn't lift a finger to defend them.

But like you I'm not sure about putting this teen to death (I don't care what the gender is; irrelevant imo). But charged with crimes against humanity/treason, absolutely. Letting them back in as a free citizen as others have suggested? What a complete joke (if it wasn't so tragic) and a clear sign these people are detached from reality.

I hear you. If my son did the same I wouldn't defend him either. I know kids are smart at that age, but they're not wise. This is going to sound weird to a young person (I don't know how old you are, just speaking generally here) but knowing what you're doing at 16 isn't the same as knowing what you're doing at 36. Yes, she absolutely knew what she was doing and should be punished according to the law. But I also believe she was gullible and naive and stupid.

[Deleted]

I hear you. If my son did the same I wouldn't defend him either. I know kids are smart at that age, but they're not wise. This is going to sound weird to a young person (I don't know how old you are, just speaking generally here) but knowing what you're doing at 16 isn't the same as knowing what you're doing at 36. Yes, she absolutely knew what she was doing and should be punished according to the law. But I also believe she was gullible and naive and stupid.

I do kind of agree with that.
Let's not forget that gullible versus a manipulative person with nefarious intent is a terrible mix.

Of course she must face justice, but only for the crime she committed which is joining a terrorist group and the importance of her intervention here, not the crimes other have committed and as in any case circumstance have to be taken in account.

[Grym]

[B]I guess she was lucky to surivive at all.
The question here is; what now? Should she be taken back to Germany?

Why is that lucky?

It is luckier is she dies in the battle like all ISIS should.

[MFDOOM]

she, along with any other sympathizers, should suffer whatever punishment iraq has for that.

she's in their country, let them deal with it.

It's pretty disgusting that the U.S. supported these types of Kurdish para-military groups after their conquest of Iraq ten years ago. What right do they have to unveil her, shame her, and hand her to over to American troops? She looks genuinely afraid. Why is the story framed in a way that she was "saved"? Why are posters on here calling for a 16 year old to serve hard prison time?

This trope of "Jihadi Bride" is offensive, insulting, and serves to further no productive conversation.

[Enfilade]

Yeah, typical teenager mistake. Smoking, drinking too much and joining a murderous terrorist cult.
That what we all did back in the days.


Disagree with the death comment, but calling her a child is a fucking joke.

Still doesn't change the fact that they're a child.

[GreenJesus]

By joining ISIS she basically declared war on her home country and the west. She is now a captured enemy soldier. Just because she is female doesn't mean she can't be tried equally as bad as a male.

[OrcsRLame]

Imo, she needs prison time and and mental health counseling.

Really though, this is the kind of situation where there's no right answer. This is the definition of shades of grey. There's legitimate arguments to be made for letting her off the hook, executing her, or giving her prison time. I don't see a truly moral way to handle this, so I would prefer a middle ground option.

All that being said, we need to come up with some kind of inoculation against this kind of radicalization.

[oraz4000]

If you read the whole article it mentions that she is a sniper? i find that hard to believe but if she is then that changes everything.

[Alydael]

Well, it would be nice to think that she can return to her old life, but unfortunately shes an enemy combatant no matter what. She left her home, for the purpose of supporting the people trying to actively kill her countrymen.

If she was an adult I would agree.

She was a teenager at the time.

While that certainly doesn't excuse her action, you can't treat it the same as if a full grown adult had done it.

That's why I went a little light on her and was trying to give her a chance to show that she changed and what she did was a stupid "childhood" mistake.

My "sentencing" was also dependent on how she acted during interviews (I am sure they will conduct plenty). Is she sorry or does she still think it was the right thing to do?

Also, according to all reports of how women are treated over there- she may have already suffered a lot for her decision.

If she was an adult, I would throw the book at her- because they should know better.

[Venant]

Internet
/10

The memes she consumed were too dank for her

Hopefully she will go back to Germany and become like the German version of Linda Sarsour, maybe someday she will even run for chancellor

[Malacrass]

I'm always wondering why an ethnic German would join ISIL. The common explanations don't work. She wasn't impoverished or oppressed. She wasn't bombed by American foreign policy (after WW2 of course). She had a stable political system with lots of support and room for growth. So why? Some (e.g. Jordan Peterson) have speculated that some people just have some kind of a self-dislike bias which leads to a rejection of in-group leadership ('white' men/christians) and a desire for some other group's leadership. This instinct is compounded by modern leftist rhetoric (highly critical of the self - one's country, while giving high praise to foreigners), which may take form in radical, militant feminism, and made worse by living in a spiritually empty world, where one's tribes spiritual superstitions and traditions have been trashed, and materialism runs rampant. I don't know, it's just a running hypothesis, I'm sure there's some research on it to explain this phenomenon somewhere.

The general conclusion is that insecure people simply seek a place where they feel accepted, as part of a group. I don't recall the name of the professor who said it, but freely translated: "it's pure chance whether these individuals end up as a salafi, neo nazi or scientologist". It's pretty much about which group manages to fish them out of the pond first.
That said, non-ethnic germans have no option to join a neo nazi group for obvious reasons, so I guess there is only radical islam left for them.

However, I read now that some 16 years old girl who until proven the contrary as never harm anyone and possibly was a victim should met a similar-fate worse than those who commited those terrible crimes. Is there no redemption for a teenager, especially when we know nothing about it ?
We accept that murderers are not sentenced to death but her should be just on a whim of some internet angry mob ?
I'm outrage to see people just being so selective on who to do a witch hunt, just to serve their terrible agenda.
Justice is not vengeance, no matter how vengeance is tempting and god it can feel right but it simply is not.

It's a dumb kid that was manipulated. She is not (until proven the contrary) someone who have commited a crime so terrible she cannot be allowed to live anymore. Hopefully our respectives governments have a better sense of justice than those people, but I fear the day we let again our inhumanity take over.
I'm really fed up with that forum.

Curious that you bring up Nazi crimes, it's fitting.

In Germany we would call people like her "Schreibtischtäter", a term normally used for Nazis who didn't directly get their hands dirty by executing people, but still played their part in oiling the genocide machine. A common excuse when they were eventually prosecuted was "I had no idea what exactly happened in those camps, I was just responsible for the laundry, the cafeteria, took care of the books, etc".

This 16 year old bitch is guilty, simply for joining the group. Maybe she didn't behead people. Maybe she didn't help enslave the locals. Maybe all she ever did was cook food for the men, taking turns with the enslaved Yazidi women when it comes to sucking their dick. But whatever she did down there, she is guilty of oiling the genocide machine that is ISIS. Her mere presence acted as a catalyst for recruiting more soldiers to the cause, she is one of the things Isis promises new recruits, a proof of their vision happening here and now. (money, women, power).

And honestly, I don't care that she's a victim. 99% of the Isis soldiers are victims. Victims of war, of their culture, of the times, of the 1% fanatics at the top abusing their mental instability.
But the Iraqi government should have the right to prosecute them regardless, doesn't matter if they have a german passport.

[Bryntrollian]

Seems like an enemy non-combatant to me.

[Tackhisis]

But whatever she did down there, she is guilty of oiling the genocide machine that is ISIS.

Sleeping with a member of an organization is not being a member of that organization. It requires proofs.

[Liarparadox]

I hear you. If my son did the same I wouldn't defend him either. I know kids are smart at that age, but they're not wise. This is going to sound weird to a young person (I don't know how old you are, just speaking generally here) but knowing what you're doing at 16 isn't the same as knowing what you're doing at 36. Yes, she absolutely knew what she was doing and should be punished according to the law. But I also believe she was gullible and naive and stupid.

I think i understand what you mean; and if i do, I agree. And i don't mean to be argumentative, because this site doesn't need more of those types of posters. I also don't mean to be pedantic; but I wouldn't say she is naive. You don't join at 16 because you're naive. You join because you are evil, at that age. Naive has this ring of innocence about it. She knows full well what they are about. And there's never been more info at her fingertips as there is right now in history. She wasn't naive; she knew and she choose to join a group that sexually enslaves women and children, sends little boys to die, rapes people probably on a daily basis, and so on. She knew this and joined. She doesn't qualify for "naive". But maybe i'm just being picky there; I think mostly because i have a pet peeve with the way "naive" is thrown around. That's probably just on me.

I'm almost 40. I know when i was 16 i wasn't wise. Completely agree. But here, and maybe this is just the wording that's getting me again, or just the way I'm reading it; but it looks like a mixing up between making generally bad choices (the typical ones teens tend to make; we've all been there), not having some wisdom (though some teens show remarkable foresight to their own futures), with something entirely different and something even the youngest of teens ought to have: a basic human decency for life (i.e. some minimal concern for the sanctity of life and the well-being of sentient beings, like other humans and a desire not to see them suffer or inflict it upon them in the sort of way that ISIL does daily). A 16 year old is WELL above the age that we can hold them responsible for joining a group that wants to RAPE, TORTURE, AND MURDER, along with obliterate entire nations (I don't mean to suggest you disagree btw). 16 is plenty old to know this well. Hey, if we're talking about a 16 year old spending too much money on fast food, alcohol, and makeup, and not enough savings for college, sure, we can shake our heads and agree these 16 yr olds don't have wisdom and see the big picture. I completely agree; knowing what you're doing at 16 isn't the same as knowing what you're doing at 36. And at 56 we'll all be telling ourselves we were fools at 36, hehe. But this isn't the same thing, not in the slightest. Those teen failings are about the day to day things/decisions. Joining THIS group, when there is mountains of info out there about what they stand for. It's not immaturity; it's inhuman. It's evil. But again, I don't mean to suggest you disagree; the wording is what's getting me.

[Deleted]

I think i understand what you mean; and if i do, I agree. And i don't mean to be argumentative, because this site doesn't need more of those types of posters. I also don't mean to be pedantic; but I wouldn't say she is naive. You don't join at 16 because you're naive. You join because you are evil, at that age. Naive has this ring of innocence about it. She knows full well what they are about. And there's never been more info at her fingertips as there is right now in history. She wasn't naive; she knew and she choose to join a group that sexually enslaves women and children, sends little boys to die, rapes people probably on a daily basis, and so on. She knew this and joined. She doesn't qualify for "naive". But maybe i'm just being picky there; I think mostly because i have a pet peeve with the way "naive" is thrown around. That's probably just on me.

I'm almost 40. I know when i was 16 i wasn't wise. Completely agree. But here, and maybe this is just the wording that's getting me again, or just the way I'm reading it; but it looks like a mixing up between making generally bad choices (the typical ones teens tend to make; we've all been there), not having some wisdom (though some teens show remarkable foresight to their own futures), with something entirely different and something even the youngest of teens ought to have: a basic human decency for life (i.e. some minimal concern for the sanctity of life and the well-being of sentient beings, like other humans and a desire not to see them suffer or inflict it upon them in the sort of way that ISIL does daily). A 16 year old is WELL above the age that we can hold them responsible for joining a group that wants to RAPE, TORTURE, AND MURDER, along with obliterate entire nations (I don't mean to suggest you disagree btw). 16 is plenty old to know this well. Hey, if we're talking about a 16 year old spending too much money on fast food, alcohol, and makeup, and not enough savings for college, sure, we can shake our heads and agree these 16 yr olds don't have wisdom and see the big picture. I completely agree; knowing what you're doing at 16 isn't the same as knowing what you're doing at 36. And at 56 we'll all be telling ourselves we were fools at 36, hehe. But this isn't the same thing, not in the slightest. Those teen failings are about the day to day things/decisions. Joining THIS group, when there is mountains of info out there about what they stand for. It's not immaturity; it's inhuman. It's evil. But again, I don't mean to suggest you disagree; the wording is what's getting me.

Except the "she knew everything" is probably not true as it's often the case in similar cases.
Those young people are not recruited with the promise to kill, rape and torture other. Their recruitment technics often are based on things like :
"Your government is lying, they try to show all of us as monster while doing war in out countries slaughtering children".
"We offer purpose and fight for liberty"
"We fight for our sons and daughters"
Those are lies obviously, but it is obvious because we have the time and the info required to make the difference.
they are not exposed to the evil message we know with time, they are exposed to two opposite message with one having a particular attention to them while the other ignore them. It is manipulation at its worst. Of course most people could see the difference, however those recruitment technics aim at the most vulnerable of us. We should help them, not kill them.

Go look at those recruitment methods, it's simply brainwashing and brainwashing is not about some evil choice. I highly doubt she looked at a site and said "oh well being raped every day sure sound like fun". And yes, maybe that person could be evil at heart but we don't know that. And if she is, another won't. Blind and harsh judgment is not justice.

How do you things terrible groups like that form through history ?
Do you thing it is because at one time tons of people are evil at heart and then those people stop to be evil the minute those groups aren't existing anymore ? We didn't prosecute 2/3 of Germany because they actively supported a genocide group, we didn't because we know it's the result of that time and society, that the human mind can be modeled after other's will for the worst.
Human will is weak, for some its even weaker. We should be angry at those who prey on them not on the victims of brainwashing.

[Dangg]

Still doesn't change the fact that they're a child.

Age of criminal responsibility is 14 in Germany. Juvenile justice is applied between 14-18.