Tomb of Sargeras Progression Thread

[Netherbrood]

Content is cleared within hours due to serious PTR testing and dungeon journal studying, as well as overall growth of player skill. Not to mention that there are now three difficulties of the same raid, compared to one.

One way they could partially fix that would be to make it so the dungeon journal was not filled in for any boss until the boss was killed. and the different difficulty modifiers didn't fill in until that difficulty was cleared.

[Seramore]

Nothing needs to be fixed, the game is fine right now. Blizzard adjusts raids and mechanics based on the state of the game and the player base and I'm sure the Dungeon Journal actually gives them the power to make more intricate encounters because it lets people get prepared for what to expect, with the exception of Mythic only encounters and phases.

[Popokolara]

Black Temple TW told me everything I should know about how mechanically hard raids were back then.

Gorefiend? Have one or a few guys stay in the middle of ghosts and know what buttons to press. Rest of the raid just beats up the boss. GG.

Reliquary of Souls? One raid-wide debuff per phase, and like one ability. Fixate in ph1, interrupt in ph2, and I can't be bothered to remember ph3. Such hard, much complexity.

Mother Sharaz? Remove tethers quickly, gg.

Cripes we have dungeon bosses with more mechanics than this now. And I'm discounting the easymode bosses like Supremus and Shade of Akama on purpose.

Illidan is the only one that has the complexity of a modern, relatively hard boss. Obviously he was undertuned so it didn't matter much, but in terms of actual mechanics raiding has come a very long way I feel.

You compared the TW version with the real thing, LOL

when you describe things like that, everything feels easy.
"KJ? Huge obvious swirls just stand in them, orbs just approach them, adds just pawn em"

The relative experience and familiarity of the players as well as the number tunning, raid tools vanilla or modded, and the ability to equip and prepare your raiders added complications. No ability is ever too complex, its the circumstances that create the true difficulty. Rotating 5man groups for bloodboil which hit a lot worse than the joke in TW, and using your immunities to restore the order rotation was hard because people were a lot less able then, and had fewer tricks in their sleeves.

[Vorkreist]

Why aren't these scrub guilds downing this ez KJ ? Makes no sense. If only the game was really hard like back then when you had to master those 2 boss mechanics.

[Nitros14]

Aren't people doing 10,000 dps in timewalking black temple?

I remember when 2,000 dps on Gorefiend was amazing.

[Jdance]

Please stop saying that PTR testing is a major advantage- It's absolutely not. Testing is anywhere from 40-50 minutes and bosses are generally completely under or overtuned.

PTR is going to be the most useful for the person developing bigwigs scripts, which I suppose can be an advantage but you'll almost never have accurate timings or anything important.

[Seramore]

Please stop saying that PTR testing is a major advantage- It's absolutely not. Testing is anywhere from 40-50 minutes and bosses are generally completely under or overtuned.

PTR is going to be the most useful for the person developing bigwigs scripts, which I suppose can be an advantage but you'll almost never have accurate timings or anything important.

nice joke friend.

most the test sessions are an hour long, but they generally test all three difficulties, open up LFR, and even occasionally fully open Normal/Heroic. how you don't think that doesn't give an advantage on live is puzzling to me

[Jdance]

nice joke friend.

most the test sessions are an hour long, but they generally test all three difficulties, open up LFR, and even occasionally fully open Normal/Heroic. how you don't think that doesn't give an advantage on live is puzzling to me

1) the only person in a guild testing LFR is the person in charge of big wigs and WA (fuck they might not even be doing that)
2) yeah you'll test heroic for an hour. cumulative time saved from testing heroic might be around an hour for release

fully testing all difficulties for the average player in top a guild might give you around 4 hours of time saved for all of progression. probably closer to 7-8 hours for the person scripting.

Then again your guild is 7/9 heroic. It's not surprising the things that come out of your mouth come from a baseless position.

[Seramore]

1) the only person in a guild testing LFR is the person in charge of big wigs and WA (fuck they might not even be doing that)
2) yeah est heroic for an hour. cumulative time saved from testing heroic might be around an hour for release

fully testing all difficulties for the average player in top a guild might give you around 4 hours of time saved for all of progression. probably closer to 7-8 hours for the person scripting.

except most people who test normal/heroic see the majority of the mechanics on the fight, if not kill it; especially if they fully open the raid. still puzzled why this doesn't give an advantage

Then again your guild is 7/9 heroic. It's not surprising the things that come out of your mouth come from a baseless position.

lol what

[Jdance]

lol what

What i'm saying is that you have no experience with what you're talking about so the things that you are saying are highly likely to be baseless and conjuncture instead of holding any actual meaning.

And it does give an advantage. I gave you a number to quantify the exact advantage. If you think four hours is an advantage that makes or breaks the race you're delusional.

[Seramore]

What i'm saying is that you have no experience with what you're talking about so the things that you are saying are highly likely to be baseless and conjuncture instead of holding any actual meaning.

Then again your guild is 7/9 heroic

lol what

i'm convinced you're actually retarded

Infracted

[Jdance]

lol what

i'm convinced you're actually retarded

Sorry 3/9 mythic. 7/9 heroic to 3/9 mythic might raise your percentile by 1 or 2. Same shit.

[Seramore]

Sorry 3/9 mythic. 7/9 heroic to 3/9 mythic might raise your percentile by 1 or 2. Same shit.

sorry m8, you pretty much ruined anything you said after that A1 post a few ones up

maybe next argument lad

[Deleted]

sorry m8, you pretty much ruined anything you said after that A1 post a few ones up

maybe next argument lad

He is right though that you have no idea what advantages PTR testing do for top guilds. First because you are not in a top guild and second because i doubt your guild is even doing ptr testing.

[Kakera]

1) the only person in a guild testing LFR is the person in charge of big wigs and WA (fuck they might not even be doing that)
2) yeah you'll test heroic for an hour. cumulative time saved from testing heroic might be around an hour for release

fully testing all difficulties for the average player in top a guild might give you around 4 hours of time saved for all of progression. probably closer to 7-8 hours for the person scripting.

Then again your guild is 7/9 heroic. It's not surprising the things that come out of your mouth come from a baseless position.

I don't like Seramore's nonsense and childish rants but I (unfortunately) used to raid with this kid in top 20 US level back in the day. He does have somewhat of an idea of what he's talking about. Right or wrong. In this case he is right. PTR testing is used as a datamine at the top level. People log and analyze wipes to get a general idea of a strategy. Even 1 additional piece of information such as X ability does Y amount of damage can have a huge impact on raid tactics. It says a lot about where you are progression wise if you can't even appreciate the value of having even a 1 pull advantage over another guild. More data = more opportunity to find a proper strategy = advantage.

[Daan]

PTR raid testing IS an advantage, because people get an important overviews of the bosses and during the break between PTR raid and live opening, they can think about tactics/setup. All these things save time and make the progress a bit easier/faster (even on heroic).

[Deleted]

I don't like Seramore's nonsense and childish rants but I (unfortunately) used to raid with this kid in top 20 US level back in the day. He does have somewhat of an idea of what he's talking about. Right or wrong. In this case he is right. PTR testing is used as a datamine at the top level. People log and analyze wipes to get a general idea of a strategy. Even 1 additional piece of information such as X ability does Y amount of damage can have a huge impact on raid tactics. It says a lot about where you are progression wise if you can't even appreciate the value of having even a 1 pull advantage over another guild. More data = more opportunity to find a proper strategy = advantage.

No one here was contesting that PTR testing has advantages (otherwise why top guilds would do it? Just to help blizzard bug fix? lel).
People were just arguing about the importance of that advantage

[barackohmama]

Why aren't these scrub guilds downing this ez KJ ? Makes no sense. If only the game was really hard like back then when you had to master those 2 boss mechanics.

Probably lost interest now that it has already been killed. Btw bosses back then had more than 2 mechanics. Also tanks got oneshotted if they didnt play properly and raid didnt have 500 combat resses. Might have been easier to play as dps, but that doesnt mean bosses were easier overall.

[Deleted]

I wonder if Method or Exorsus could release some sort of 'outtakes' video of the early mythic KJ attempts. I'd love to see what bugs, mechanic overlaps and other things that were causing problems for them early on before things were fixed.

[Kakera]

No one here was contesting that PTR testing has advantages (otherwise why top guilds would do it? Just to help blizzard bug fix? lel).
People were just arguing about the importance of that advantage

Fair. I just find it comical that people even bring it up like it's a small advantage. Who cares how big or small it is. It's an advantage. Not giving a shit about gaining any advantage no matter how small is why casuals stay casual and the top dogs are the top dogs.